Nottingham Forest v Derby County

[Carl Sagan]

Awful performance, poor from players and management. I hope we learn. One key thing was that we were all out of energy. The next batch of fixtures don't come with a handily placed international break, and I think that means we shall have to use our big squad and rotate more.

Too many players appeared shattered and leggy from the off that there weren't enough subs to change it. But it was clear the subs we did have needed to be on a lot earlier. I'd have said two at half-time. Presumably Hendrick had a knock or there's no way he should have come off for Ince, with Russell, Weimann, Martin, and Johnson contributing next to nothing. A lot of people saying Butterfield should have been in the starting 11, but not for me - this was a game for Bryson, running on past the forwards (which no one else did). And I do get frustrated at the lack of opportunities for Bent. Johnson was already exhausted and slow against Rotherham - he's really needed a rest and him and Thorne just got in each other's way.

People saying the goal came off Keogh, but I thought it hit Shackell. But if we stand off and let people shoot, we'll keep conceding deflected goals. Maybe Carson could still have saved it? But what a wonderful save he made a few minutes later. Great effort from Ward.

This is a test for the team, with two weeks to dwell on Derby defeat. I expect them to react well, but what this teaches us is there's a long way to go and we're still a little off the leafing pack.

Not having scored in a few games now, I would consider starting Bent and having Martin on the bench. The skipper has got to know he's not guaranteed his place and needs to keep playing well, and keep banging in the goals.

[Shang]

Definitely fatigue. No one touch passing so wasn't quick enough. I happened to be in the same pub as Will Hughes in London today, and switching the play to the opposite side quicker was what he mentioned consistently. Thorne couldn't do it because he was too high up, and Butterfield and Johnson took a touch too many.

[Ziga Zaga10]

Russell worked his socks off against Rotherham and QPR.  I would have left him out tonight as it would be one game to many in 6 days given the effort he put into those games. He looked jaded from the word go. Thorne faded badly from an average performance after receiving a dead leg and should have been replaced then. No excuses for the others. It concerns me that we don't close down players quickly enough around our box. It cost us tonight as it cost us at Birmingham and could have cost us in other games.

[mcsilks]

4 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Not having scored in a few games now, I would consider starting Bent and having Martin on the bench. The skipper has got to know he's not guaranteed his place and needs to keep playing well, and keep banging in the goals.

Martin is our best player, our key player.

Everything good that we do comes through him.

He was utterly devoid of service last night and must have been frustrated with his midfield.

He didn't have his best game but to suggest playing Bent over Martin? That will never happen while Martin is fit and rightly so.

[jono]

I am supposed to be sulking for three days but I cannot believe the negative vitriol being spouted by some on here.

ok we lost to THEM.. But remember Derby games are weird, we have had 3 games in 6 days and it was away from home. They HAD to win or be in deep do do.

the lads were sweating and running .. It didn't work, there were some performances that could have been better but all this talk of X was **** or Y was lazy doesn't qualify as fan talk to me.

should have done better .. Yes .. Terrible no .. Disappointing .. Yup .. Right .. Bring on Cardiff .. End of rant 

[Tombo]

24 minutes ago, sage said:

Hendrick non-extistent

Johnson offered no physical challenge.

The rest I agree with but these two simply aren't true. Not even slightly.

[valleyram]

If ever a game needed brysons energy this was it , Thorne and Johnson were poor and I don't understand how they played 90 minutes , hopefully clement learns from tonight 

[twinkletoes]

lets not throw the baby out with the bath water,

if this season we lose home and away to Leeds and Forest and finish in the top 2 no one will give a flying ****.

we go on build agin get back to basics and beat cardiff, yes it hurts we lost to Forest they were the better team tonight end of.

we need to explain to christie he is not ******* Neymar! and the rest looks like it might come at the right time we looked leggy and tired PC will sort this out, i for one am not concerned at all.pissed off but not concerned.

[sage]

2 minutes ago, Tombo said:

The rest I agree with but these two simply aren't true. Not even slightly.

Other than his shot, what did Hendrick do? How many touches did he have in the game?

They bullied us and Johnson is our enforcer. He smashed someone in the 92nd minute when he needed to do it in the 2nd minute. 

[StringerBell]

9 minutes ago, Shang said:

Definitely fatigue. No one touch passing so wasn't quick enough. I happened to be in the same pub as Will Hughes in London today, and switching the play to the opposite side quicker was what he mentioned consistently. Thorne couldn't do it because he was too high up, and Butterfield and Johnson took a touch too many.

I see where Hughes is coming from. They mentioned on sky we didn't use the flanks enough and tried to play through the middle. 

[Anon]

5 minutes ago, jono said:

ok we lost to THEM.. But remember Derby games are weird, we have had 3 games in 6 days and it was away from home. They HAD to win or be in deep do do.

I think we can bin the 3 games in 6 days excuse since Forest had exactly the same schedule. If our players were tired then fault is with the management as we have plenty of fresh legs on the bench waiting for a chance.

[StringerBell]

7 minutes ago, mcsilks said:

Martin is our best player, our key player.

Everything good that we do comes through him.

He was utterly devoid of service last night and must have been frustrated with his midfield.

He didn't have his best game but to suggest playing Bent over Martin? That will never happen while Martin is fit and rightly so.

He had plenty of balls into feet in the first half and did nothing with them. Less so in the second half.

1 minute ago, Anon said:

I think we can bin the 3 games in 6 days excuse since Forest had exactly the same schedule. If our players were tired then fault is with the management as we have plenty of fresh legs on the bench waiting for a chance.

Forest certainly had plenty of energy, although I don't know how much effort they put into their other 2 games

[Carl Sagan]

A lot of criticism for Christie but he was pretty much our only outlet and kept driving forward. People saying he should have got the ball into the box more quickly, and maybe that's true, but whenever we did put quick ball into the box there was nobody there - noone was making forward runs. I would say Christie was very much one of the better performers on the night.

[Guest]

I thought Martin was poor. His passing was woeful. Can't keep on using the "lack of service" excuse. Forest looked dangerous every time they attacked. I'm obviously a jinx as over the last two years every time I've watched us on TV we've lost or drawn. 

[Rev]

Really poor from Martin tonight, but after god knows how many great performances he's allowed a bad one.

It still holds true from last season though, and the one before, no Martin, no performance, we really need to sort this out, if 4-3-3 isn't working, we must have a better alternative than chucking Bent up top to pick up scraps, if a league one side in waiting can figure it out, we've no chance against the best in this division, never mind the one above!

 

[Chester40]

Didin't think there was any lack of effort or not caring/arrogance as some have said,  it was more a lack of really positive, driving football from too many players....whether that was being adventurous with a run down the flank, or constantly being available for a pass, or forward movement off the ball. Didn't seem to be anyone capable of raising the tempo, or driving people on..all very one-paced. Johnson's passing was especially poor. Don't think I'll be keeping that in my Sky planner. Agree with other comment that is good time have a break and then go again.

 

 

[RiddingsRam]

19 minutes ago, mcsilks said:

Martin is our best player, our key player.

Everything good that we do comes through him.

He was utterly devoid of service last night and must have been frustrated with his midfield.

He didn't have his best game but to suggest playing Bent over Martin? That will never happen while Martin is fit and rightly so.

I'm not disagreeing how good Martin is but the only reason everything goes through him is because of the system / style we play the type of player Martin is doesn't allow us to play any other way so when he has an off day or the opposition stop him playing the team have an off day . 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Understandably there are a lot of, in my view, emotional over reactions on here. Forest & Dougie Freedman raised their game to a level they cannot produce every week. It was do or die for them imo. It was their cup final it wasn't ours.

The reason we lost was, as PC said, too many players were over complicating things. Russell & Christie were running too much with the ball and losing possession. Hendrick was not showing enough in midfield. Martin on the rare occasion he received the ball was trying to be too clever, trying lay offs & flicks that were way too hopeful. Weimann was bounding about now & then but pretty ineffectual. The effect of five members of the team having stinkers was disappointing & ultimately cost us the game. PC takes some blame also as I think he should have played Butterfield from the start, but hindsight is a fine thing.

Thorne's style makes him look lazy but he isn't he was generally clever on the ball, available & neat. He's still a cut above this division. Johnson was trying. A few passes were poor a lot were good. He at least was available. Keogh & Shackell were pretty sound on the whole. Warnock was very good defensively, sometimes superb BUT we did miss Fozzy's consistent attacking threat & availability down the left.

In summary, the attacking aspect of our game (not for the first time) let us down. It's disappointing but Its not doom & gloom. We still have a very good side and I still expect very good things this season.

The stats below are interesting.

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/live/match-stats/339719/nottingham-forest-v-derby-county

[Van der MoodHoover]

13 minutes ago, Anon said:

I think we can bin the 3 games in 6 days excuse since Forest had exactly the same schedule. If our players were tired then fault is with the management as we have plenty of fresh legs on the bench waiting for a chance.

Agree totally. Earlier this week we were collectively adding our respective fixture schedules into the reasons we would win.

We were at home Tuesday whilst forest had to go to Preston and back.

Thorne wasn't playing Tuesday so we could reasonably look to him for drive. Or Ince who hadn't played for a few. 

We didn't need both Thorne and Johnson for the way forest set up. That was Clement being tactically outwitted. Who would have thought forest would be happy to give up almost 70% possession in a home derby match? 

Terribly disappointing evening. 

[Anon]

3 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Understandably there are a lot of, in my view, emotional over reactions on here. Forest & Dougie Freedman raised their game to a level they cannot produce every week. It was do or die for them imo. It was their cup final it wasn't ours.

Just because we have a bit of cash now it doesn't mean we've somehow transcended out biggest rivalry.