WestKentRam
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Posts posted by WestKentRam
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36 minutes ago, ram59 said:
It would be interesting to keep a record of potential points lost or gained this season. As the season goes on, you forget about earlier controversial referee performances, both ways.
I say potential, because it's very rare that you can categorically say that a decision or decisions have affected the result of a game. The exception being a game like Bristol Rovers away, when we lost 2 points due to a controversial penalty in the last seconds of the game.
Had we'd been given those penalties or Wildsmith not been sent off, we don't know that the result would have been different, we may have lost by 4 or 5 goals, even.
I can't think of any major errors, potentially affecting the results up to the Bolton game. So I would say that we're potentially up to 3 points down on the season so far.
As per other threads, I did this for the 20/21 season after getting the feeling prior to this, despite the cliche, it doesn't even itself out at the end of the season for us. I had us down 8-9 points for the 20/21 season overall. Of course it is open to my bias, but I only included game changing decisions and tried to link to media reports.
The other thing that has been pointed out to me, to be more accurate then I'd need to do this for all other clubs in the league as well to get an overall view of the alternative table at the end of the season. However, I've only a certain amount of time to devote/waste on this!
After the 20/21 season it became a bit depressing and I didn't keep a full record of critical decisions for and against us, but after last season when we had plenty against us I thought I'd do it again for this year.
I agree, the Bolton game is the only one so far this season that has had the outcome potentially affected, and it has gone in the first row in my spreadsheet for 23/24...
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1 hour ago, Seaside Ram said:
So when was the last time we had a big , wrong call go our way ?
I could probably list 10 we’ve been on the wrong end of in the last 2 years.
Yet folks STILL maintain we get refereed fairly and it’s just bad luck !!!
As I just posted on the Bolton thread related to a discussion there, we gained 2 points on 16/2/21 as the ref incorrectly ruled out a goal for Wycombe for offside when it wasn't. We still were down 8-9 points by the end of the season though with other decisions that went against us.
Ok, that was just outside your criteria of being in the last 2 years, but I'm sure we've not been on the wrong end of any decisions since then 🙂
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8 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:
have you ever noticed that when the ref gives us a break you don't post about it ?
No, never noticed this. You'll have to give me time as I've only been supporting Derby since the glory days of the 1970s, but I'm sure we'll get a decision going our way sooner or later.
In my 20/21 spreadsheet I had recorded that we gained 2 points on 16/2/21 as the ref incorrectly ruled out a goal for Wycombe for offside when it wasn't. We still were down 8-9 points by the end of the season though with other decisions that went against us.
We've had two red cards overturned on appeal in the last year. Wildsmith this week, and Cashin in Nov 22. My memory for games is horrendous, but I can't recall other clubs having had successful red card appeals in games involving us recently. Palace had an unsuccessful appeal for a red given to Milivojevic when they lost against us in the FA Cup in Jan 20.
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3 hours ago, Kokosnuss said:
Does your spreadsheet of injustice only cover Derby games, or those of other teams in the league too?
I think you can only really say it costs teams promotion if you're talking about a one off, winner takes all situation.
Example. Last season when we finished a point behind Peterborough, you could claim that the ref cost us the point we needed to finish above them and reach the playoffs in that final league match against Sheff Weds.
Without knowing what the injustice balance was for Peterborough though, that claim can't be substantiated. The points denied to us could well be cancelled out by them claiming a point of their own lost lost to poor refereeing, in which case the refs actions toward us against Sheff Weds are irrelevant.
Hmmm... interesting...
I'm not quite sad enough to analyse every game in the league in this way, but I agree it would give a more accurate picture of the overall standings if such contentious decisions could be included for all clubs.
The reason for doing it, apart from giving me something to rant about, is that the maxim that it all evens itself out by the end of the season appears to be nonsense if you support Derby and it does my head in when this is trotted out.
The last time I did it for a full season was 20/21 when we were 8-9 points worse off due to decisions such as we had against Bolton. After that, it just became a bit depressing, but after last season when the same feeling occurred, I thought I'd do it for a complete season once again now.
It's just a bit of fun as I was intrigued by Brentford having their Table of Justice, that I recall was one of the reasons Thomas Frank wasn't sacked after his initial terrible run when he started managing them, as their stats indicated they should be higher up the table than they actually were.
- May Contain Nuts and uttoxram75
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4 hours ago, Keepyuppy said:
it was handball, it’s irrelevant whether a goal scoring opportunity or not, because if it’s handball be the keeper outside the box it’s an instant red card regardless of anything afterwards.
I don't think that's right, it's not an instant red card if a goalkeeper handles the ball outside of the box, but is if it is denying a goalscoring opportunity.
The laws of the game state 'The goalkeeper has the same restrictions on handling the ball as any other player outside the penalty area.'
This makes sense as otherwise if a goalkeeper went up for an attacking corner in the last seconds of the game to try and score a crucial late goal, but handled the ball, then it wouldn't be a red card for them but not if an attacker did it instead.
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33 minutes ago, DRBee said:
Not conclusive at all to judge by the FA statement
The statement says handball.
What it doesn't say is that the red card was overturned as it wasn't actually a handball on video evidence, or whether it was overturned because the handball didn't deny a goal scoring opportunity.
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15 minutes ago, angieram said:
The FA version:
Interesting they have left it ambiguous.
So was it a handball or not? If not, then the ref and assistant obviously guessed or it was an optical illusion that the ball hit his hand that only video could clarify.
Or did the commission still think it was a handball, but not a goal scoring opportunity?
This sort of thing does cost teams promotion, as every season automatic or play off places are won or lost on margins of less than three points.
The game has gone on my Spreadsheet of Injustice to see how it 'evens itself out over the course of the season', that for us, strangely, never seems to be the case 🤬
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On 26/08/2023 at 21:15, WestKentRam said:
Very enjoyable day out. When we went 1 nil down early doors I thought it was going to be a long afternoon. Should never have doubted the lads.
Peterborough's stadium sadly wins the award for the worst stadium I have been to. Cobwebs and bird poo on the antiquated seats. Matched by the poor human toilet and 'hospitality' facilities, and general feel and appearance of the place. Is no surprise that the stadium owners are in receivership and it has the air of no money being spent on it and not looked after. Makes me very grateful for what we have at Pride Park.
Good to see Peterborough are now trying to do something about the state of the stadium.
The job advert says 'any cleaning or general maintenance experience would be beneficial' 😅
Just need to recruit some refreshment sellers and they may have the basics covered @angieram?
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25 minutes ago, angieram said:
We arrived at the ground Main Stand in 22 degrees, full sunshine and NO refreshments open. Were told they would open at 2.55, an hour later.
I played merry hell with the stewards (who, to be fair were just following instructions). There was a young lad at the front of the stand feeling faint, but no drinking water available.
Anyway, I demanded they sorted it out immediately, told them it was illegal and I was reporting it to the papers.
After about 20 minutes of harassing them they finally opened up.
A ridiculous state of affairs and the sooner football starts treating away fans as paying customers, we might start behaving like them!
Indeed. Reminded me of the bad old days of the 80s with dilapidated stadiums. Not many events you'd pay £30 for and be expected to put up with such facilities.
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Very enjoyable day out. When we went 1 nil down early doors I thought it was going to be a long afternoon. Should never have doubted the lads.
Peterborough's stadium sadly wins the award for the worst stadium I have been to. Cobwebs and bird poo on the antiquated seats. Matched by the poor human toilet and 'hospitality' facilities, and general feel and appearance of the place. Is no surprise that the stadium owners are in receivership and it has the air of no money being spent on it and not looked after. Makes me very grateful for what we have at Pride Park.
- angieram and CBRammette
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Got to the game hugely early as per and milled around the player entrance to people watch a bit.
Was chatting with a Burton fan who hadn't managed to secure a ticket due to a bit of a hard luck story. While we were talking the Burton manager came out and personally game him a complimentary ticket so he could see the game. A very nice touch and have now developed a soft spot for the Brewers. Must toughen up.
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I saw this Tweet yesterday and it made me wonder if it might be related to some of the negativity.
The fans of most other teams in the EFL, and also of the PL apart from those permanently in the top division, have had promotions more recently than us to enjoy/keep them preoccupied. Of the other similarly sized clubs to us in the list, all have been in the PL since we have, and haven't had to endure the 07/08 season, two relegations, near liquidation etc.
So in a way Derby are in an almost unique situation, and so the supporters may be more twitchy or hopeful of success than those of other clubs, and hence more critical even after the first game of the season when things don't go to plan...
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29 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:
I know half a dozen in the 10+ category who are waiting to buy together with friends in the 5+ category for Peterborough because they can guarantee getting them. That could be the case with several groups.
True. I was going to wait until on sale to ST holders for the Peterborough game as so many tickets available, but my mate in that category can't go so I just got on with it today.
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1 hour ago, Foreveram said:
Just over 300 tickets sold this morning, doesn’t look like the 10 + is a particularly big group.
Just over 2,500 remaining.
Makes me think the numbers in the groups have changed quite a bit from last season.
Last season I was 5+ and got a ticket for Burton. This season I'm 10+ and only snagged one as I bought it straight when they went on sale to this category, and they didn't make 5+.
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We're had a major de-clutter following work on the house this year, and sadly my football programme collection is one of the things that must go in our new minimalist state.
Rather than condemn it to the great recycling centre in the sky, I'm offering it here in case anyone wants to relive the Mel Morris glory days, as well as other times past and present. Free to a good, or bad, home.
It consists of Derby home and away programmes to those games I've been to since 2014 up to last November when I realised my collecting days are over, including a full two season set of Rampage magazines.
There are also some older programmes of mainly other clubs, or Derby away, with a few stretching back to the 1970s but most in the 1980s/90s and onwards, featuring Arsenal, Charlton, Wimbledon and a smattering of other London clubs back in the days when I could just rock up to a Div 1 ground at 3pm on a Saturday and get a reasonably priced ticket watch the game. Also some ticket stubs for these games when I kept them. A bit of a hoarder...
I'd rather just off load them in one batch if anyone is interested. The photo shows they take up three smallish boxes.
I get to most home games in the car early locally in Derby from 11.30am-midday pre 3pm KO, so can drop off or arrange a rendezvous in Derby pre match.
If you're interested then send me a message. I'll post on here when they are spoken for. No time wasters, as I do enough of that myself.
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Glad to see this and will be very interesting to see if it makes any difference in practice and referees enforce the rule changes. If so, this could be to our advantage this season as time wasting is used against the 'better' teams if the opposition can't win or draw by actually playing football.
https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2023/07/match-officials-to-adopt-new-approach-for-202324-season
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I'm so fickle. Feel much better after yesterday with prospect of seeing how we do against southern-ish Reading, Orient, Northampton and Stevenage away next season. That, and Millwall's capitulation, has really helped my mood.
- angieram, Comrade 86, Premier ram and 1 other
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Don't forget, it all evens itself out in the end. I'm not sure the end of what though.
The game? The season? A new manager? A new owner? A three yearly cycle like the EFL's Profit and Sustainability rules? The decade?
I often read that we didn't deserve to win this game or that, so serves us right for losing points due to refereeing decisions. Makes me think that football games should be decided on stats other than goals scored as this is too open to bias.
I can't decide on whether it should be % possession, shots on target, xG, best player haircut, or a Bake Off scenario where judges rule on the tastiest pie served up at the ground. Seems a lot fairer than what is going on week in and week out at present.
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21 minutes ago, Boycie said:
Yeap, our goalie went down like a sack of spuds when the flagged offside player still took his shot.
If that was in the goalies goolies then he’d be down a tad longer me thinks.
Wildsmith admitted in his post match interview he did it to waste time. Beginners mistake. Never admit to nuffink 🤦
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6 minutes ago, CBRammette said:
So does that just mean small enough to not need to be disclosed seperately?
I wonder if it is a matter of timing. The accounts are up to 30th June 2022.
David Clowes bought the club on 1st July 2022. Rob Couhig is on record as saying that the money for the compensation to WW came through two days after this.
- RadioactiveWaste, RoyMac5 and TuffLuff
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39 minutes ago, Dcfcsr92 said:
Makes sense now why they had a couple go down at the same time
The added bonus is that not only does it mean both players can stay on the pitch at the same time, but it wastes even more time having two down needing treatment.
I wonder if some clubs go as far as having time wasting coaches in the same way they do for throw ins, corners etc? Certainly it helps knowing the laws inside out and using them to the team's advantage.
It's another thing to enjoy on a Saturday, watching a new aspect of time wasting and how to keep the ball dead. Stuff actual football, this is the really enjoyable stuff.
Referees
in Derby County Forum
Posted
The problem is that football is a low scoring game of fine margins. We would need to win each game by 2 or 3 clear goals to allow for decisions to potentially go against us and to be able to overcome this.