WestKentRam

On 26/02/2024 at 22:53, ilkleyram said:

What wasn’t clear was what he actually meant by the 45% stat. Presumably it is 45% of turnover but over what period? And does the 45% refer to all wages (ie including him, the back office staff, the academy coaches and players, the management team etc etc) or is it just the first team squad? 
How then does the 45% figure affect our FFP figures/performance? Hopefully it will put us in good fettle but how many other costs will have an impact on FFP that aren’t included in that 45%? 
The question I’ve never heard asked or answered is what David Clowes actually means by our being run sustainably. If it means ‘within FFP limits’ then that is potentially (at its maximum) at a considerable, allowable loss every year. If he means ‘within our annual income/turnover’ then that’s a considerable reduction in spending from years gone by that will have a significant impact on players salaries and transfer fees in particular. Or is it somewhere in between?  I wouldn’t expect him to define that publicly but setting a budget for transfers and wages every year must mean that they do so internally and the 45% is of major importance. 

There are lots of questions raised by the interview such as these, but I'm not sure when if ever we'll get answers, apart from what can be gleaned from the accounts when they are released, but this won't indicate future plans ie for next season.

I'm no financial expert, but reading abut the League One EFL financial rules, SCMP, that are different to those in the Championship, owners can inject any amount of cash into a club and this money can be used on wages, so a rich owner could essentially buy their way out of the league. 

https://www.efl.com/governance/regulations/#heading-part-2-league-one-salary-cost-management-protocol-scmp-guidance-notes

So without knowing how much other clubs with lower attendances are spending in this way, then Derby being a supposedly 'big' club in League One may be misleading. 

The 45% on player wages to turnover stat interests me and what this means for the future, if the standard EFL financial rules apply from next season rather than having to submit and then abide by a business plan that was the case this season different to how other clubs had to operate in the league.

If anyone on here has football financial knowledge, the (lots of) questions I would have are...

1) How does 45% compare to other League One clubs? If we were to stay on L1, would this figure stay the same for next season or be cautiously increased?

2) Is it all too complicated due to transfer fees, loan fees etc having to be factored in next season? If so, why was the 45% figure repeatedly mentioned in the interview as evidence of our good financial management now?

3) If promoted to the Championship, would 45% be the aim? Is the only difference then the TV money as increased income?

4) As we get bigger home gates than all other clubs in L1, does this translate to increased income compared to other clubs that is available to spend on players? Our average home gate this season is 1.29X that of Bolton who have the second largest, and 2.79x the league average.

Going to away matches at clubs with much smaller attendances and worse facilities, it makes me think, surely we must have a much greater income than them? Of course spending money on players is often a road to ruin as we know, but if done properly with the right players who are managed in the right way, given that league position is hugely related to expenditure, should we effectively be 'expected' to get promoted next season if it doesn't happen in this one?

Heads up that if you're driving the car park on Queens Road mentioned on Barnsley FC website for away fans isn't open, just for disabled, as grass there is waterlogged. Parked up the road at riding club for £3.

1 hour ago, Mucker1884 said:

Nor do I recall that red card being rescinded, but I stand to be corrected on that.

Madley gave Chris Martin a second yellow for being fouled and so it wasn't a straight red, so it couldn't be appealed and CM got a one match ban.

I enjoyed the game today, mainly because I wasn't expecting us to get anything from it, what with Evans' pre match shenanigans and Collins not in the squad.

Must admit I was disappointed Evans didn't come over to the away fans after the game for his trademark celebration, but instead he immediately skulked off down the tunnel. His bitter post match comments do bring me joy though.

Haven't seen such a buoyant post match mood at PP for some time.

22 hours ago, WestKentRam said:

As much as I don't like Steve Evans I admire the way he goes about his job and what he has done at Stevenage.

I would like to formally retract this statement.

Until reading this thread and then looking it up further, I didn't realise Evans had a conviction for fraud in 2006 related to his getting Boston United promoted to the Football League and hiding payments from tax for five years to enable them to spend more on players. Not only that, he was incredibly smug over his rivals when gaining promotion, knowing all along he did it by cheating. 

A journalist in an article in the Independent in 2012 was of the view 'Having interviewed Evans before his misdeeds at Boston were exposed, it is remarkable how little he seems to have changed.'

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/fa-league-cups/steve-evans-i-apologised-now-i-m-just-judged-on-my-results-6295854.html

Am looking forward to tomorrow even less so now, especially as Evans has put pre match pressure on the ref yet again in a game involving us, even though he says he doesn't know who is officiating the game, with the coincidence being he had a post match rant about the same ref two month's ago in the press. The sight of him fist pumping the away end if they win will be too much.

6 minutes ago, TINMANTED said:

I would like to think Warne didn't feel the need to employ rumors as a tactic to beat stevenage 

There's no harm in keeping his cards close to his chest though. If Collins had a scan today no need to give the result of that to Evans. and so keep him guessing to potentially affect Stevenage's team selection and line up.

3 minutes ago, cannable said:

Wolves away was f****** b*******, Bent gets clattered by Batth, clean through on goal but Ince scores from the resultant loose ball.

It’s either advantage and a goal or a red and a free-kick.

Free-kick and a yellow.

I don't even remember that episode in the pain that the game still causes me!

Just recall Russell not being effective at all, and it dawned on me that he was never going to score and we were never going to be the same with Martin injured.

1 hour ago, Ram-Alf said:

And the mind games have begun...Ladies and Gentlemen I give you...Steve Evens

And the former Leeds United boss, who has already begun the mind games ahead of the trip to face the Rams, feels Derby fans have the ability to influence decisions.

"When we go to Derby, we just need a fair crack," he said. "We don't need big things to go against us because there are 27,000 or 28,000 Derby fans who get them a decision.

"They are going to try. I've been there with teams and they are a brilliant, vocal, home support. I don't know who the referee is, I've not looked, but he has to be strong."

Of course you don't Steve...it's...Thomas Kirk...as you full well know 🙄

I looked it up as having the same ref as for the away game there in October would finish me off. Looks like it's not Kirk but Tom Reeves with Michael Webb and Danny Jarvis and Fourth Official Marvyn Amphlett.

However Evans has a huge beef Reeves with had a pop at him only a couple of months ago. Very poor preparation on Evans' part not knowing who the ref for the game is on Saturday, and what a coincidence he's recently had a run in with him.

https://www.thecomet.net/sport/23963735.steve-evans-blasts-horrendous-penalty-decision-cup-tie/

I sincerely hope Collins is ok and it's a tactic by PW to keep Steve Evans guessing prior to our game on Saturday.

It can't help but bring back the trauma of the 14/15 season when Chris Martin picked up an injury at the same time of the season when we were in a similar position in the table, and was out for 10 games. Darren Bent got injured as well, and, hey presto, no striker.

Johnny Russell was played up top but didn't score a single goal in this period. Wolves away was particularly painful and sticks in my memory.

We slipped down the league and the season fizzled out with us finishing 8th.

Of note, the first game we played after Martin got injured was Rotherham away, managed by a certain Steve Evans. 3-3. His post match comments were along his usual themes:

"What an advert for Rotherham United being (in) the Championship.

"There's tinges of great disappointment being 3-1 up. We got a point but we have come across the best team and manager in the division."

As much as I don't like Steve Evans I admire the way he goes about his job and what he has done at Stevenage. His pre match routine must include a check list that has 'put pressure on the ref' on it.

I also recall him doing the same before our away game there in October with the report then little different to now: 'Stevenage boss Steve Evans is "afraid" of what kind of referee will be in charge of their game against Derby County this Saturday (3pm kick-off) as the mind games began ahead of the League One clash.'

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-steve-evans-referees-885826.

During the match it felt as if his mind games worked, as Washington was taken down from behind in the penalty area when shaping up to shoot. No penalty given and it was 2-1 at the time.

There was some debate about the penalty given against Forsyth who tackled their player in the penalty area, got the ball, but a penalty was given.

All he needs to do is put that little seed of doubt in the ref's mind when big decisions come up like this, and job done.

22 hours ago, Big Bad Bob said:

I think we should have a poll on whether we should have separate threads, one for Warne Out and one for Warne In .... 😶

Or a separate thread debating the various Paul Warne threads?

22 hours ago, Gerry Daly said:

Our problem is that our home fans - absolutely rightly - would not be happy with 30% possession at home in a third division game

I'm sure you're right but it also depends on the style of football. I find nothing more tedious than possession based side to side crab football without any attacking threat, that had been our modus operandi in the recent past.

It sticks in my throat to use FFP cheats (don't get me started) Leicester as an example, but they won the PL in 15/16 with 42.4% average possession, although with a particular counter attacking style that we don't possess to the same degree.

What I like to see is positive attacking football. In the past while watching our games under different managers, drifting off into boredom and struggling to work out which way we were kicking, I did think that if an alien was suddenly dropped into our stadium they'd have no idea the aim of the game was to get the ball into the opposition's net.

When PW took over it seemed that for the first couple of games a switch was flicked as if no backwards or sidewards passes were allowed, pressing was everything with forward attacking football. That didn't last long and there now seems to be a lot more hopeful balls forward up in the air, with bouts of head tennis and lack of coordinated passing between players.

Overall it seems obvious PW knows 'how to get out of this league' and hopefully we'll do so this season, but I share others' views that it often isn't an easy watch.

1 minute ago, eddielewis said:

Great Win! If we consider both tonight and Saturday that's maintaining the 2 points per game average we need to keep in order stay in the top two.

Don't they say if you win your away games and draw your home games you've got a great chance of going up? 🤔

Looking forward to this game to see what sort of a reaction we come up with after the last two performances.

After listening to the excellent Rams Talk pre match podcast I'm more than slightly nervous. Cheltenham's upturn in form under their new manager apparently is to press teams with a lot of energy from the start, don't sit back but attack, quieten the crowd in the first 20 mins, and take it from there.

1 minute ago, WestKentRam said:

Reading game has vanished on away ticket section. I assume dates are being amended and will be reposted. Staring at my computer now with multiple refreshes...

Yep, it's back now with correct dates.

1 minute ago, sage said:

It is up now but with incorrect dates for Reading. Shambolic

Reading game has vanished on away ticket section. I assume dates are being amended and will be reposted. Staring at my computer now with multiple refreshes...

When I got to my seat/standing area before kick off I sat down and promptly smacked the back of my head on the rail of the seat behind me. Will only take me a couple of seasons to learn not to do that again.

8 minutes ago, jake0400 said:

Anyone know if this bobble hat is gonna be available to buy? It's like Mary Earps' England shirt all over again.

I really think the club is missing a trick here. Every time I've gone into the club shop pre match it's obvious there are a lot of people looking for the hats PW sports in press footage but do not seem to be on sale.

A couple of home games ago there was one supporter in the shop wearing a not dissimilar bobble hat and he said a desperate punter had offered to buy the hat from his head as it looked close enough! He declined as it was freezing outside and he needed it to keep his bonce warm.

Very sad news and my sincere condolences to his family on the loss of Daniel. He was Mr Derby through and through and always a source of positivity despite this! Away days won't be the same without bumping into him and his dad pre match for a catch up and chat.

I was lucky enough to meet him through this forum a few years ago. Me and my mate @South east ram were intrigued by his postings. Somehow we saw his picture on here, and then couldn't believe our luck when we were sat next to him and his dad at an away game, possibly at Ipswich, through the fortuitous chance of the ticketing system. We felt slightly star struck but I summoned the courage to speak to them and ask if he was B4 from the forum. It turned out he was also a close neighbour to my mate's family in Derby. Small world.

Since then we frequently saw each other at away games and had a chat, the last time being at Stevenage. Very sad looking back on it thinking we won't meet Daniel again for a chin wag and see how he's been and what he's been up to.

On our long drives up and down to Derby me and South east would talk about Daniel and what he had to say about Derby, and it was a privilege to regularly also meet the man himself and his devoted dad.

Derby have lost a great supporter, and his family an great son and brother. Goodbye Daniel 😪

31 minutes ago, alram said:

What an earth is he wearing in general, he’s a football manager not a PE teacher although I am questioning that myself

It's easy to over analyse everything when we are doing poorly and I'm as guilty of the next person of doing that.

It seemed to me symbolic of how he is feeling at the moment with the stick he is getting and lack of answers, retreating into his shell with a cap on and hood up so we can just about see his face.

In one of his post match Interviews PW again, as per after the Shrewsbury game, identifies that he wants more aggression from the players (no mention of playing actual football). Apart from setting about them with some boxing gloves before he sends them out he doesn't know how he can achieve this.

How about we reverse the time line and he sends the players into our fans for a bit of an argument and scrap during the warm up pre match to rile them up, then they might be in the right frame of mind to get stuck into the opposition during the game.

The other point about this is I wonder if asking for more aggression leads to more free kicks, like the two we conceded goals from today, although I want to analyse the footage frame by frame tomorrow as from where I was standing they looked like further travesties of justice just like the penalty we weren't awarded.

Handy that Leigh Curtis of Derbyshire Live has written on refereeing errors against us. Cross referencing with this will make updating my spreadsheet of injustice easier 😊

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-ref-verdict-exeter-8863210

2 hours ago, NottsRam said:

The linesman pointed his flag downwards which indicates the offside was on his side of the pitch ie Mendes Lang rather than Waggy.

Thanks for pointing this out. I've learned something new here with regard to offside flagging.

I hope goal difference doesn't come into play at the end of the season or my bitterness will take a new twist.

10 hours ago, IslandExile said:

Referee was excellent tonight. Kept the game flowing.

Never a penalty in the first half and the disallowed goal was the Lino's fault.

Looking back at the replays this morning, was it given for Waghorn being offside when Barkhuizen crossed it to him to head back across goal to NML who was onside to head in?

Not clear from the RamsTV footage as doesn't show the moment the cross went in with Waghorn in the same picture, but in the build up to the cross Waghorn was further forward than the last defender, but he may have held back to be onside. 

What I find hard to fathom is why managers seem to only have one view on how they want the team to play, and don't adapt to use the players they have at their disposal to get the best out of them and the team.

The worrying thing for me was the post match interview where Warne said the players weren't aggressive enough as the main thing that could have been improved in today's performance. There's no mention of getting the ball down and under control and stringing some passes together.

Perhaps he meant we didn't close down the time and space their players had in midfield in particular, but our games have become incredibly scrappy affairs that more aggression without some football being played won't improve, I fear.