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I am not sure they made the difference, to be honest. Hogan and Jutkiewicz are fairly average for this level and Deeney only had a cameo.
If anything, the pace and directness of players like Chong and Bela was probably more telling.
It was a poor game with little quality on show.
Our defending and lack of organisation let us down. You can’t give away the kind of goals we do and expect to be competitive.
Look at the first goal, as an example. Hogan was completely unmarked and uncontested. He couldn’t miss. He is not going to score an easier goal all season. 
The fact we have Baldock, Stretton and Kazim as our forwards comes down to historically poor decision making at the club.
But the lack of goal threat comes from poor tactics which don’t maximise our threat, a lack of team balance, and also having inconsistent players in key positions - the type who can frustrate far more than they excite.
 

haven’t read the rest of the thread yet but here’s my ten penneth for what it’s worth ....although ive criticised Rooney in the past there was evidence of some really good play and rotation of position and some lovely neat interchanges
we desperately lack a striker and I don’t think Stretton is yet the answer and Baldock makes good runs but in the first half showed why he’s not exactly prolific when he passed rather than shoot when in the box 
saying all that we lost to a Brum team who look a solid championship side who are defensively solid with good championship defenders 
now the negative part regarding Rooney ..... I just don’t get it how Lawrence is captain and tonight I thought he was very poor and was to blame for the second goal but it’s his attitude that riles me ...he is not captain material and to be honest think we are better off getting a few quid for him and using it when we are permitted to get a couple of players in ....tonight I thought Lawrence was petulant and lucky not to get another yellow card .
for the life of me I cannot understand the decision to give him the armband also in our current predicament I’d play him as a striker or not at all ...just my thoughts 

haven’t read the rest of the thread yet but here’s my ten penneth for what it’s worth ....although ive criticised Rooney in the past there was evidence of some really good play and rotation of position and some lovely neat interchanges
we desperately lack a striker and I don’t think Stretton is yet the answer and Baldock makes good runs but in the first half showed why he’s not exactly prolific when he passed rather than shoot when in the box 
saying all that we lost to a Brum team who look a solid championship side who are defensively solid with good championship defenders 
now the negative part regarding Rooney ..... I just don’t get it how Lawrence is captain and tonight I thought he was very poor and was to blame for the second goal but it’s his attitude that riles me ...he is not captain material and to be honest think we are better off getting a few quid for him and using it when we are permitted to get a couple of players in ....tonight I thought Lawrence was petulant and lucky not to get another yellow card .
for the life of me I cannot understand the decision to give him the armband also in our current predicament I’d play him as a striker or not at all ...just my thoughts 

haven’t read the rest of the thread yet but here’s my ten penneth for what it’s worth ....although ive criticised Rooney in the past there was evidence of some really good play and rotation of position and some lovely neat interchanges
we desperately lack a striker and I don’t think Stretton is yet the answer and Baldock makes good runs but in the first half showed why he’s not exactly prolific when he passed rather than shoot when in the box 
saying all that we lost to a Brum team who look a solid championship side who are defensively solid with good championship defenders 
now the negative part regarding Rooney ..... I just don’t get it how Lawrence is captain and tonight I thought he was very poor and was to blame for the second goal but it’s his attitude that riles me ...he is not captain material and to be honest think we are better off getting a few quid for him and using it when we are permitted to get a couple of players in ....tonight I thought Lawrence was petulant and lucky not to get another yellow card .
for the life of me I cannot understand the decision to give him the armband also in our current predicament I’d play him as a striker or not at all ...just my thoughts 

Can't say I'd be disappointed if he was out for 3 games.
I much prefer us without him in the team.

Hiring Phillip Cocu who has an excellent record of bringing through and developing youth was exactly what we needed given our situation.
The biggest error was immediately undermining him by bringing in Wayne Rooney as a platform for him to go into management.
Mel did it to raise the profile of the club so he could sell it. It has backfired spectacularly.
 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Birmingham "pressed higher than in any other game this season" because they've seen our matches and know we will likely gift them a goal or two as a result. The thing Rooney needs to realize and sharpish is that every team will do the same this season. He's very stubborn and you watch today's game and think, if we continue to play this way, we will be relegated.
We need points sharpish. And to get over this sharpish.
I never thought I would say this, but thank goodness for Ravel Morrison. He was the daddy in our team of boys versus men tonight. We are the side in which he will get the responsibility to demonstrate whether he has it or not. Not a brilliant game but decent. He stood up and never shirked, driving us forward and not taking it from the opposition or the ref. Shame he didn't have more composure for that shooting chance from distance.
Disappointed with Sibley at the moment, but the team shape and his position doesn't suit him. Of course the second goal isn't all on him, but I'd say 40%, which is still significant. He can see the Brummie forward alone on the edge of our box, but still makes the tackle to send the ball that way. You have to be smarter than that.
I really like the look of Stretton, but this is a tough team to come into at the moment.
Our players had no protection at all from the referee, which was terrible, and having played in games like that I know how it leads to frustration. But again you have to be smarter than Lawrence, who was very lucky to leave the field as a sub instead of seeing red. Maybe as skipper he felt he needed to protest to the ref and try to protect his lads, but he didn't do it the right way.
Great to see Jason Knight back on the field.
But a game that could point to a long hard season unless we can change it quickly and go on a run.
 

I get why Rooney wants to play out from the back. Going long isn't really an option when you've got a small striker upfront on his own against a back 3. Baldock plays on the shoulder. 
But he offers us nothing really. In his defence I'm not sure it would make much of a difference who plays up front because we lack so much creativity it's frightening.
The first goal. Can't really legislate for it. Buchanan hasn't looked. He's passed it to where he thinks Davies is then he's looked as he's passed it. Roos does well initially. But then flapped at the second bit.
I get what people say when they say Morrison is our best player. He probably is. But I still want to see more from him. Sitting deep in midfield spraying a couple of decent passes around looks nice, but it's not really getting us anywhere. I really don't understand why we are playing 2 CDMs in Bird and Shinnie and Morrison is so deep too. Would love to see him further forward. Where his passes could be more effective.
I've said this a million times, but we need so much more from Lawrence. I honestly think he's best position is upfront. He's not a winger, he offers nothing in midfield. Not really sure where he's playing at the minute.
We are crying out for wingers, Sibley isn't one, Lawrence isn't one. They are what we have as width. Supported by the full backs.
Finally, and please don't think I'm scapegoating. Cos I'm not. I've been saying this since Lampard is here and this isn't just based on tonight.
But Kelle Roos is not now and never will be good enough to be number one. 
Kicking is poor, use of the ball is poor. He takes so long on it, it's frightening. It's almost like he thinks nobody is there and he can take as long as he needs. Peterborough game he almost cost us. Tonight he had an awful touch and still took his time after.
He will make the odd good save in a game but then he'll concede with something that he should save. That Forest goal, he should save. Im not saying the second goal tonight was a clanger or a massive mistake. But he should do better for me. 
Everytime the ball comes into the box in the air he looks nervous, which will run through to the defenders.
The blokes a liability. A good goalkeeper will save you 10 points a season. A bad one will cost you.
Our best keeper isn't even in the squad. It's like Scott Carson all over again. 
Marshall is here, we're paying his wages. Just play him.
This season is going to be very similar to how last season finished. I think we'll struggle to score more than one in a game playing like this. Infact there won't be many times we do score more than one in a game this season.

Agreed, think Lawrence will be recalled and Sibbo will be dropped unfortunately. How much better do we look without Lawrence 

What a performance.
Didn't put a foot wrong all game. Calm on the ball, great positioning, great leadership, won every tackle, won every header, even when they outpaced him he just put his body in the way?.  Age is just a number!

Atm I'm still as interested as ever but I am disillusioned with the club itself. It feels like the club doesn't really give a damn about the fans;  from the lack of communication to the constant ticketing screwups it really does feel that all they care about atm is trying to get as much money out of us that they can and bugger anything else. But they're not even competent at that!! 
I can cope with us being utterly crap on the field, I've seen it enough times over the last 20 years but what I'm struggling to take is the club taking us for fools and seeing us as little more than a group of people ready to hand over quite a lot of money for something we're emotionally invested in. I don't like the way the club is acting atm and it's the first time since I've been going that I've seriously considered financially withdrawing my support. 

Let's be honest between all the crap Derby fans put up with its hardly a surprise and I wouldn't blame them , the price for a season ticket is just not worth what we witness on the field , and then they added a none disclosure onto a meeting that was to give fans information,  sad times and very poor club management 

The real worry is it might be more than just this season how do we know the club will be sold this season we don’t, and that scares the hell out of me because we are in a proper mess....I am actually struggling now to mention Mel without ill feeling and I don’t like myself for that but he doesn’t want peanuts for the club and could be a long time before all we are talking about is the game we love ...sad times indeed ?

The real worry is it might be more than just this season how do we know the club will be sold this season we don’t, and that scares the hell out of me because we are in a proper mess....I am actually struggling now to mention Mel without ill feeling and I don’t like myself for that but he doesn’t want peanuts for the club and could be a long time before all we are talking about is the game we love ...sad times indeed ?

Agree with every word of that Bris

Chris Martin wasn't here last season. He started the 2020-21 season with exactly the same players Rooney had minus the FIVE loan signings. Take one of those loan signings out (Lee Gregory) and Rooney's record now stands at Played 12 Won 0 Draw 2 Lose 10. Two points from a possible 36.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Phillip Cocu record more points at the beginning of last season compared to Wayne Rooney's end-of-season record? Rooney had exactly the same players + Mengi, Edmundson, Roberts and Baningime.

As mentioned, Wayne Rooney has yet to win a game as Derby County manager without Krystian Bielik or Lee Gregory starting. Phillip Cocu also had neither of those players.
Rooney hasn't done any better with the same set of players than Cocu did. In fact, he has done worse and he had the luxury of being able to sign FOUR other players (Gregory aside) during the January transfer window.
The point of this post isn't even to make Rooney look like a poor manager. I think this squad is poor and Rooney's hands are tied. We're in for a long season and January may be our only hope of survival.

Cocu got a pretty average Derby team to tenth during his first season in charge despite everything that went against him. Sibley, Bird and Knight all performed far better under him.
His transfer targets such as Dursun, Panzo and Moore had brilliant seasons last year.
Cocu was a slow burner. But he improved players and could spot potential transfer targets to move us forward. His time at PSV proved with the right pieces in place, he could succeed.
But he was undermined by Wayne Rooney's arrival while restricted from making any signings due to the circumstances caused by Mel Morris. Bizarre you would give up on him after the Charlton away game, which was about 10 game into his first season, working with an average squad. What were you expecting? Bielsa-ball?
There were signs after that we were on the right track. Like the back-to-back wins over Sheffield Wednesday and Blackburn, the latter a crushing 3-0 win where Wayne Rooney didn't even play.
Post lockdown, we still had momentum and Louie Sibley was being talked about as a potential superstar. But by that point, Rooney's fitness was so dire we were starting games with ten players.
Cocu's job come the second season was impossible. We were obliged to play Rooney who was awful, while we started the season without a recognised striker due to an embargo and the Martin fiasco.
The subsequent improvement in form after Cocu's exit was down to Rooney retiring and Krystian Bielik coming back. Not only were we playing with 11 men again, but we had arguably the best midfielder in the league absolutely running it for us. 

Agree with this I watched Sibley in under23 game and to be really honest I don't think he shone enough to suggest he is a first team regular....just my opinion of course

What I was told was that Rooney had a meeting with Louie between the real betis and notts county game basically stating that he was free to leave due to him not being in rooneys plans. To me personally (not been told this just pure speculation) it sounds like Rooney doesn’t trust sibley and therefore thinks if he gets rid of him he’ll be able to bring another player in who he trusts more. Saying that we have just brought ravel in as competition for him. But me personally I fully expect louie to stay and DEFINITELY not be loaned out 

Yeah, no season tickets, no ticket office, no coaches, no minutes from a supporters meeting, no updates, no communication from the club to emails, no accounts filed, promises broken to the manager, tax bill unpaid. 
You're right. 

Totally agree with you. Made the meme for those that are still emotionally attached, probably best I get that out there.
Would rather play Shaun Barker on Saturday over Keogh, and I couldn't go through the Chris Martin the Messiah days again.

He worked hard, made runs, won some corners, made himself available but I don’t think he’s anything like ready.
seriously out muscled, didn’t seem tricky enough to actually get the cross in and Joz was crying out for to do wall passes/give and goes but too often he’d play safe. Morrison was playing left back sometimes as cover and Fozzy had to bail him out at the end. He’s a good lad with the right attitude but he needs time to grow in my opinion. 

What you can take away from these highlights are exactly what we have witnessed in a Derby shirt. Excellent close control, decent sprints and pace, brilliant dribbling ability and a reliable player in close spaces.
But in these highlights I see not shots of any power. I also barely see any crosses from outside the box. Interstingly, there are about 6 or 7 clips of him beating the defender with skill before cutting to another highlight. Where is the cross or killer pass? It was probably scuffed or failed to beat the first man.
These highlights leave out a key ingredient for an atacking player. An end product! And that's exactly what has been missing from Joz's game while at Derby. I maintain, technically, he is superb. But strikes the ball like a fairy.

Thankyou for attending this evening David try not to worry about the mindless morons that gave you grief on twitter showing there true colours means you can block them.
I'd like to think the majority on here are grateful for you attending this evening its not like its just around the corner either so well done .