Srg Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Crewton said: Sounds like Arsenal overpaid for David Raya from Brentford then : £3m loan fee followed by £27m to complete the permanent transfer. Staggering really, because I thought he had a lot of mistakes in him when he first played for Brentford. Raya had played in England for 12 years before signing with Arsenal, from another premier league team it’s important to add, joining them at 27. Not really apples to apples is it? Edited August 27 by Srg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 On 26/08/2024 at 07:02, S8TY said: Warne has been labelled a L1 specialist but I think its fair to say the jury is out regarding his abilities in the Championship Football is ruthless and I personally think we must not be involved in a relegation scrap We might not have the money and resources etc etc but regardless of that the aim has to be to not get relegated as we'd be back to square one Whether it's Warne or not we need a manager to get the best out of what we have and to be able to compete at this level Can see the benefit of Warne's work with our set pieces but we must improve with keeping the ball better and being braver individually and as a team To be fair to Warne he said the right things after the game regarding how he evaluated our game against Watford but we must improve certain aspects of our game Although some don't see the benefits of possession I still believe you have more chance of winning games if you actually have the ball but not sure Warne sees it as a problem Time will tell this season but if we are struggling come Christmas it has to be looked at surely by DC as I think with good game plans and management we should be able to stay up in this division, relegation is not an option To not be in a relegation scrap, the club need to fund that level of expectation. Clearly that's not the case, not to say that we are competitively budgeted against other teams expected to be in a relegation battle, but we are certainly within the bottom 6 clubs. I thought we would be equipped to be clear of a relegation battle after we were promoted, my anticipation was that we would have a significantly bigger budget than we actually have. I thought with likely £30+ million revenues and Clowes' willingness to write-off up to £10m a year that we would be ok. The £10m a year write off was evidently based on being in League One, suspect that he's trying to reduce that this season as much as possible. I absolutely can't fault him, obviously there is a call to do things more sustainably, but feel in that case we could've benefitted from a much different approach in League One. If we are relegated, perhaps we will see a different approach in League One. How much was out of design vs how much was due to EFL restrictions is anyone's guess. eddielewis, vonwright, Tyler Durden and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 24 minutes ago, Srg said: Raya had played in England for 12 years before signing with Arsenal, from another premier league team it’s important to add, joining them at 27. Not really apples to apples is it? I'm really not following you on this one. If Jakob lives up to his apparent potential with us, having recently turned 26, and if the Swedish national side notice and recognise his development, do you not think his value will rise accordingly and a PL club might start to notice they could sign a keeper yet to enter his prime? I really don't get why he doesn't count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverurie Ram Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 On 24/08/2024 at 22:47, Chopper said: Ok, so we've got another Paul Warne thread and I'm tanked up on Wireworks whiskey (good derbyshire lad me) so here goes. History repeats itself, patterns emerge. Lets look at Clough Jr v Mclaren, Clough, not exciting made some good signings of players based off of character but once we stabilised from a precarious position as a club appeared to have taken us as far as he could take us. Steve Mac arrived, and from that second half against Ipswich was awesome, but that financial commitment went up and up, we chased with the irony being two of the strongest players in that chase (Bryson and Martin) being Clough signings. A chase and gamble which at the start of each season found us spending more but in exactly the same place that Clough had us, the Championship. This gamble got greater and greater as we put more more and more on in order to reach that final goal and then our last roll of the dice v Villa came up short and we were doomed, very nearly literally. Is Warne, Clough? We are being financially prudent, but not exciting not the Derby of TBE or Clough snr or Cox or SMc. Will there be a point were we say he has taken us as far as he can and if we want to go up it's time to gamble? Only one man truly knows when we are in a position to do that without staring the abyss in the face again, David Clowes. Until that moment we need to rebuild and be stable and if we get 4 years of frustrating but slow growth we may need to make our peace with that. I wouldn't wish us three years ago on anyone. ... Well apart from Middlesborough, Wycombe, Birmingham, Leeds, Forest ... Absolutely spot on @Chopper I don’t need to read anymore of this thread as it will only get to the stage that PW isn’t speaking to the players with the correct accent, he needs to be doing what Stevie Mac does!!! Speak to the new boy with your best Zimbabwe accent PW and come on you’ve worked with Fozzy for ages, you should be making more of an effort, put a kilt on, wear a tartan Jimmy hat and he will perform even better. And already this lot on here are now accusing PW of being to honest to the fans, so come on PW you need to lie to the fans more, spin us a load of lies, that will rally the troops. Enjoy the rebuild, enjoy the ride and @Chopper you are far too sensible and realistic for this forum! I’d like to say enjoy reading the forum, but then I’d be lying also! 🤣 Chopper and Comrade 86 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 5 minutes ago, Crewton said: I'm really not following you on this one. If Jakob lives up to his apparent potential with us, having recently turned 26, and if the Swedish national side notice and recognise his development, do you not think his value will rise accordingly and a PL club might start to notice they could sign a keeper yet to enter his prime? I really don't get why he doesn't count? He does count, just not in comparison to an outfield player. Take the exact same scenario for any other position on the pitch, and the value is much much higher. I'm not downplaying the signing, on paper it's really good, just think when we're talking about reducing the age of the squad for the longer term and maximising value, goalkeeper is the bottom of the list as far as positions to target. RoyMac5 and Chris_Martin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 2 minutes ago, Srg said: He does count, just not in comparison to an outfield player. Take the exact same scenario for any other position on the pitch, and the value is much much higher. I'm not downplaying the signing, on paper it's really good, just think when we're talking about reducing the age of the squad for the longer term and maximising value, goalkeeper is the bottom of the list as far as positions to target. OK, thanks for clarifying, but you could go through the whole team like that and we'd only sign strikers because they attract the biggest fees! I think any player that could treble your money in 1-3 years time is worth investing in. i-Ram and Comrade 86 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Crewton said: OK, thanks for clarifying, but you could go through the whole team like that and we'd only sign strikers because they attract the biggest fees! I think any player that could treble your money in 1-3 years time is worth investing in. Bit of a gamble though? Edited August 27 by RoyMac5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 19 minutes ago, Crewton said: OK, thanks for clarifying, but you could go through the whole team like that and we'd only sign strikers because they attract the biggest fees! I think any player that could treble your money in 1-3 years time is worth investing in. Usually would agree, but we have so many glaring holes that if it’s a case of limited funds then I’d personally favour other positions. Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 1 hour ago, Ambitious said: To not be in a relegation scrap, the club need to fund that level of expectation. Clearly that's not the case, not to say that we are competitively budgeted against other teams expected to be in a relegation battle, but we are certainly within the bottom 6 clubs. I thought we would be equipped to be clear of a relegation battle after we were promoted, my anticipation was that we would have a significantly bigger budget than we actually have. I thought with likely £30+ million revenues and Clowes' willingness to write-off up to £10m a year that we would be ok. The £10m a year write off was evidently based on being in League One, suspect that he's trying to reduce that this season as much as possible. I absolutely can't fault him, obviously there is a call to do things more sustainably, but feel in that case we could've benefitted from a much different approach in League One. If we are relegated, perhaps we will see a different approach in League One. How much was out of design vs how much was due to EFL restrictions is anyone's guess. I estimated a revenue of £33m this season, with a £25m wage bill and resulting in £7.5m losses. That's also assuming sponsorship income increases from the £1.4m in 22/23 to £4m this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: I estimated a revenue of £33m this season, with a £25m wage bill and resulting in £7.5m losses. That's also assuming sponsorship income increases from the £1.4m in 22/23 to £4m this season. GOC, what are the expenses that make up the other £15.5m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadAmster Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 52 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: GOC, what are the expenses that make up the other £15.5m? Pure guesswork but there'll be taxes/NIC to pay on the wage bill for starters. Company contributions to a pension fund, possibly more aimed at the non-playing staff at MF and PP. Moor Farm running costs (gas, electricity, water, rates machinery maintenance.) plus the cost of the Academy. There will be more things I haven't come up with as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier ram Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 On 25/08/2024 at 16:06, Chris_Martin said: but if you move any player to no.10 they will get more goals and assists, doesn't prove you've improved them as a player Archied, Kathcairns, Tamworthram and 4 others 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 1 hour ago, MadAmster said: Pure guesswork but there'll be taxes/NIC to pay on the wage bill for starters. Company contributions to a pension fund, possibly more aimed at the non-playing staff at MF and PP. Moor Farm running costs (gas, electricity, water, rates machinery maintenance.) plus the cost of the Academy. There will be more things I haven't come up with as well. Hi MA, it takes a lot to get to £15.5 million though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 On 26/08/2024 at 11:01, Crewton said: 🎶 Two Paul Warne threads, there's only two Paul Warne threads....🎶 I hate to be that guy, but being that guy... ONE: TWO: THREE: RoyMac5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Oops... I missed one... Thanks to @Dean (hick) Saunders for the bump! 😁 FOUR: Dean (hick) Saunders and RoyMac5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimtastic56 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 6 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: I estimated a revenue of £33m this season, with a £25m wage bill and resulting in £7.5m losses. That's also assuming sponsorship income increases from the £1.4m in 22/23 to £4m this season. What happened to our healthy mid-table budget? Money came in from the sale of Bird + sell on fees , but we don’t appear to be able to compete with lowly Oxford Utd . MackworthRamIsGod 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 4 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: GOC, what are the expenses that make up the other £15.5m? £3.5 swallowed up with tax and NI. £1m stadoum rent. Then you have a shed load for rates, utilities, insurance, paramedics, policing, stewards, security, ground and training ground maintenance, cleaning, etc.. jimtastic56 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 2 hours ago, Mucker1884 said: Oops... I missed one... Thanks to @Dean (hick) Saunders for the bump! 😁 FOUR: See?! I turn my back for an hour and the little b*stards start breeding! Mucker1884 and Comrade 86 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said: £3.5 swallowed up with tax and NI. £1m stadoum rent. Then you have a shed load for rates, utilities, insurance, paramedics, policing, stewards, security, ground and training ground maintenance, cleaning, etc.. Say £1.5m for that lot which still leaves an awful lot unaccounted for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 53 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: Say £1.5m for that lot which still leaves an awful lot unaccounted for. More like: Rates = £1.5m Utilities = £4m Insurance = £400k Paramedics, police, stewards = £1.2m Security = £700k Maintenance = £800k Cleaning = £600k VAT = £1.5m Total for everything so far is £15.2m. Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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