MadAmster Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 12 hours ago, Chris_Martin said: and which one of the 2 styles do you think is likely to bring more success? That's obvious. The point you seem to be missing (purposely so?) is that lower teams, and in the SBC this season that is exactly where we are, will, on occasions, either choose to or be forced to utilise a rear-guard action. It wasn't our plan from the off but after the 2nd enforced change we dug in. We got a little adventurous at the start of the 2nd half and then Boro got the upper hand and we defended what we had, a 1-0 advantage. If we'd tried to outplay them we'd have got beaten. They have been developing their squad over a number of years. We've been hamstrung by transfer embargos for 2 seasons yet still put together a squad, good enough to get promoted from League 1. We now have a limited budget to build a competitive SBC squad. That will take a number of years, my guess is 26/27 or, more likely 27/28 before we are seriously looking at top 6. Until then, we will be forced or choose to "park the bus" against the likes of Boro, Burnley amongst others, for no other reason than they are that much better than us at the moment. Fans should realise the limitations we have this season, and next, accept that. Accept there will be times we can do no other than defend. Accept there will be some open games against teams we can match and there's likely to be games we dominate and the opposition "park the bus" on us. That's the simple reality of where we are. Get the new #9, #10 and CM Warne says he's after and that "any signings will improve the team, not the squad" and we may be able to go toe to toe with more sides. Patience and understanding is required, I just hope that fans come to realise and understand where we are and that we will play several different ways this season. The most important thing to realise is that we are not in the position we were when we got to Wembley against QPR and Villa. We are miles short of that. The reason being our recent history put us where we were and now, having got out of L1, we are building a promotion side as fast as funds will allow. Indyram, angieram, Kathcairns and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Greenwood Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 3 minutes ago, MadAmster said: That's obvious. The point you seem to be missing (purposely so?) is that lower teams, and in the SBC this season that is exactly where we are, will, on occasions, either choose to or be forced to utilise a rear-guard action. It wasn't our plan from the off but after the 2nd enforced change we dug in. We got a little adventurous at the start of the 2nd half and then Boro got the upper hand and we defended what we had, a 1-0 advantage. If we'd tried to outplay them we'd have got beaten. They have been developing their squad over a number of years. We've been hamstrung by transfer embargos for 2 seasons yet still put together a squad, good enough to get promoted from League 1. We now have a limited budget to build a competitive SBC squad. That will take a number of years, my guess is 26/27 or, more likely 27/28 before we are seriously looking at top 6. Until then, we will be forced or choose to "park the bus" against the likes of Boro, Burnley amongst others, for no other reason than they are that much better than us at the moment. Fans should realise the limitations we have this season, and next, accept that. Accept there will be times we can do no other than defend. Accept there will be some open games against teams we can match and there's likely to be games we dominate and the opposition "park the bus" on us. That's the simple reality of where we are. Get the new #9, #10 and CM Warne says he's after and that "any signings will improve the team, not the squad" and we may be able to go toe to toe with more sides. Patience and understanding is required, I just hope that fans come to realise and understand where we are and that we will play several different ways this season. The most important thing to realise is that we are not in the position we were when we got to Wembley against QPR and Villa. We are miles short of that. The reason being our recent history put us where we were and now, having got out of L1, we are building a promotion side as fast as funds will allow. Great post , but honestly don’t waste your time , they are not or don’t want to listen. Same as the other one multi posting negativity. Chris_Martin, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong, Kathcairns and 5 others 2 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 10 hours ago, kevinhectoring said: I think this is a bit of a fiction. It suits the club for fans to think: oh it will obviously take (5) years to recover from the crisis. It’s made up, it’s an attempt to spin the entire fan base. The truth is, these days teams change personnel significantly from season to season. If the investment is there to buy strong talent, then teams can rebound quickly. As we know, for us the investment isn’t really there, so we’re encouraged to buy into the ‘slow turnaround’ mindset. The spin is quite skilful, look out for the messaging I’d far rather we were told the truth This is a very thick post. We all know investment is limited and that Clowes won't put his company and personal finances at risk. So our recovery time will be slow - there is no spin , just join the dots of what we have been told. But why denigrate our owners by calling it spin , just cos you are so desperate for the old Mel Morris crash and burn? LazloW, Kathcairns, angieram and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadAmster Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 10 hours ago, kevinhectoring said: I think this is a bit of a fiction. It suits the club for fans to think: oh it will obviously take (5) years to recover from the crisis. It’s made up, it’s an attempt to spin the entire fan base. The truth is, these days teams change personnel significantly from season to season. If the investment is there to buy strong talent, then teams can rebound quickly. As we know, for us the investment isn’t really there, so we’re encouraged to buy into the ‘slow turnaround’ mindset. The spin is quite skilful, look out for the messaging I’d far rather we were told the truth If the funds aren't there, and we all know they aren't, just how do you think an overnight miracle is possible? What should be done? How will that be done? Where will the funding come from? There's also 10 more days of transfer window left. PW has stated he's after a 9, a 10 and a CM. he's also said new players will be brought in to improve the team rather than improving the squad. I take that to mean any newbies will soon be starters. If he also gets a new LWB/LB, there's a chance we can look to midtable and pay accordingly. As it is, we are where we are. As far as the truth is concerned, David Clowes has been consistent in his 2 years as owner in saying the club will be run sustainably and self sufficiently. That means there are limited funds available for transfer/loan/agent fees and player wages. Ipswich managed back to back but they'd built their squad over a 4 year stay in L1, unhindered by the financial malaise we were in. You think the "we have no money and the slow build narrative is fiction". Would you care to enlighten us with your reasoning behind that thinking? It might help us understand where you're coming from... Clowes doesn't have great amounts of liquid assets left. He would welcome inward investment but he won't let just anybody buy a share of the club as he wants it to remain sustainable and self sufficient. Some say there are talks ongoing with a former MUFC backer. You can bet that's not the Glazers. I don't know how old you are but I first watched the Rams in 1961. Since then we've been on the brink of extinction on three occasions. I'm really glad our current owner wants the club to be run in a sensible fashion as I'm not sure I could handle a 4th possible extinction. Kathcairns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreveram Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said: How many meanings does sustainable have in this context ? Does it mean putting no money into the club, requiring all expenditure to be internally financed? Or taking out only what you’ve put in? Putting in just a little more than the club generates? How do you treat stadium rental, is it recycled? Requiring a 10% ffp buffer? 15%? And if you want another investor, what terms do you agree with that investor for their capital (easy for a deal to be scuppered by an unrealistic valuation of the club) You suggest it’s simple but I don’t think it is I didn’t suggest anything other being sustainable or unsustainable. Now you’re talking of different ways we can be sustainable, right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreveram Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, MACKWORTHRAM said: Well said. Also worth noting that these clubs that are spending money is nothing to do with investment. It's to do with the fact they are making millions in sales and some of that money is being spent. We have made a very minimal amount from these sell ons which has been invested into Adams, Kenzo and JWZ. Which makes me think when we do get to a position where we do sell someone for a decent fee that a large chunk of that will be reinvested in the squad. Clowes has already said he wants us to be run sustainably. Like Brighton for example. I think some of our fans see loans and think they're free. They cost money also, wages, loan fees etc. Like Brighton who owe their owner £373.3 million 🤷🏻♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 11 hours ago, kevinhectoring said: I think this is a bit of a fiction. It suits the club for fans to think: oh it will obviously take (5) years to recover from the crisis. It’s made up, it’s an attempt to spin the entire fan base. The truth is, these days teams change personnel significantly from season to season. If the investment is there to buy strong talent, then teams can rebound quickly. As we know, for us the investment isn’t really there, so we’re encouraged to buy into the ‘slow turnaround’ mindset. The spin is quite skilful, look out for the messaging I’d far rather we were told the truth Have you actually read the crap you post or is it as it appears, a mindless rant? In your own post you blow your own argument out of the water. Yes clubs can and do significantly change their squad from one season to the next. A practice that requires a large amount of money being invested into that club. You then go on to state that new investment (money) is not available to us. Mr Clowes as said numerous times he won't be pumping millions of his own money to bankroll the club's purchase of players. That the money available to strengthen the squad, will come from the finances the club can generate it self Any sensible person will realise we can't compete financially with many of clubs in the Championship. So to build a strong team we'll need, to find and develop young players, find lower league players capable of playing at a higher level and maybe splurging the transfer budget on a star player,striker. Unless we can do what every other club can't do, to quickly acquire a strong talented squad for peanuts. Then building a good squad will take time. So could you explain what spin are the club putting out to us, the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Hughes Hair Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 I think spin is a bit too strong in describing it but there’s definitely a narrative around the rebuild that is rightly managing expectations. Take what George Burley did (no not that thing) in bringing in a strong core for limited monies and turning us into a competitive team all in one season. Given the window hasn’t closed Warne may be about to achieve something similar. It’s more likely he won’t. So the narrative avoids putting undue pressure on the team and manager. For that reason I’m happy that the club are pursuing the narrative/ spin. kevinhectoring and Crewton 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 5 hours ago, Archied said: No they didn’t , they didn’t give the ball to Jackson , they didn’t even hit it in his direction They basically gave jackson an assist with a perfectly weighted through ball Kathcairns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, Reggie Greenwood said: Great post , but honestly don’t waste your time , they are not or don’t want to listen. Same as the other one multi posting negativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 59 minutes ago, Foreveram said: Like Brighton who owe their owner £373.3 million 🤷🏻♂️ Brighton are widely regarded as one of the best run clubs in the country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 37 minutes ago, Will Hughes Hair said: I think spin is a bit too strong in describing it but there’s definitely a narrative around the rebuild that is rightly managing expectations. Take what George Burley did (no not that thing) in bringing in a strong core for limited monies and turning us into a competitive team all in one season. Given the window hasn’t closed Warne may be about to achieve something similar. It’s more likely he won’t. So the narrative avoids putting undue pressure on the team and manager. For that reason I’m happy that the club are pursuing the narrative/ spin. True. And obviously some fans aren't as happy, but we must remember only two short years ago we nearly didn't exist as is. Will Hughes Hair and Crewton 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 11 minutes ago, MadAmster said: the funds aren't there, and we all know they aren't, just how do you think an overnight miracle is possible? What should be done? How will that be done? Where will the funding come from? Yes I know that. My earlier post was not complaining about lack of funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 30 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said: They basically gave jackson an assist with a perfectly weighted through ball They basically made a mistake that Jackson was in the position to pounce on and have the speed and skill to turn it into a goal , they never gave him a goal , they never played a perfectly weighted pass to him , he and derby team earned that goal by being in the perfect position to put pressure on them and make the most of any error, errors that teams make for many reasons many times in many games, well done derby and Jackson , defended superbly and took your chance when it came ,, 3 points and on to the next game 💪 kevinhectoring, bcnram, Kathcairns and 4 others 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreveram Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 22 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said: Brighton are widely regarded as one of the best run clubs in the country Who just happen to be £373.3 million in debt. What happens if they get relegated, what happens if their owner says, do you know what, I’m not going to cover these debts anymore. Of course he wouldn’t do that cos he’s one of their own, right, Kathcairns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 29 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said: Brighton are widely regarded as one of the best run clubs in the country Until the owner gets bored and calls his debts in😂 Kathcairns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreveram Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 26 minutes ago, Archied said: Until the owner gets bored and calls his debts in😂 Surely that’s unprecedented, who would do such a thing 😂 kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong, Archied, Kathcairns and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said: Brighton are widely regarded as one of the best run clubs in the country By who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 16 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said: We achieved a result yes. But hoping an opposition fails in certain aspects isn't a tactic Unless the tactic is stopping them finding the final pass. Kathcairns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said: Brighton are widely regarded as one of the best run clubs in the country Yes, their marathon and 10k are hugely popular and Steve Ovett started there. Oh wait… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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