Transfer rumours

[Ram1988]

If we don't manage to get another foward should we give TJJ a short term contract ? Plenty of pace and talent just struggles to keep fit. Protential resell value too.

[Papahet]

24 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

How often have you watched Harry Hawkins? From what I’ve heard he’s an exciting prospect but a long way away from championship level right now. 

People said the exact same about Hughes, Hendrick, Knight, Bird and Cashin, even Thompson...

You don't know how good they are until they get first team football, play with better players etc and for whatever reason PW seems reluctant to give chance to these young players.

Tony Weston another...

[Eoghan1884]

2 minutes ago, Ram1988 said:

If we don't manage to get another foward should we give TJJ a short term contract ? Plenty of pace and talent just struggles to keep fit. Protential resell value too.

Would not be against giving him a very small wage with high incentives on matches and goals. A very talented player when fit but we all know he’s rarely fit. Also a small wage is better than no wage.

[Ram1988]

Just now, Eoghan1884 said:

Would not be against giving him a very small wage with high incentives on matches and goals. A very talented player when fit but we all know he’s rarely fit. Also a small wage is better than no wage.

I agree mate.

[Caerphilly Ram]

53 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

Yes we need more creative signings. Them 2 signings excite me. Great age with the ability to make money on in the future. You cant just expect to keep relying year on year with the odd loan and aging free transfers. With the ownership model we have to bring the money in and re invest similar to Coventry and Luton. A sale of cashin for example can hopefully bring in 8 to 10 million if he can sustain championship form which no doubt he will. This is then re invested with at least 5 quality additions to go again

But other than Cashin we’re not currently blessed with saleable assets. Are you advocating the sale of Cashin now to strengthen this window? If so, there’s some logic in that but it could also potentially weaken the squad in an immediate sense.

I agree with you that’s the ideal scenario, but this is where the last few years have to be taken into consideration for me. The admin and relegation led to us having 5 first team players. A squad was initially put together under EFL restrictions using loans and free agents, of relative quality for the league, but with little to no resale value. That continued into the second season in league one, where we still had restrictions though apparently less stringent, so we secure a few permanent signings using creative deals like the one which brought in Wilson and Washington. Hindsight tells us maybe some of those deals haven’t worked out and of the free agents we signed (Bradley, Elder etc) some younger and potentially more investable options were out there but for whatever reason either the club didn’t pursue them or weren’t able to compete for their signings. Either way, job is done and we go up automatically after 2 years in league one, which sees us in the champ with restrictions lifted. We’re making signings like we haven’t done in years, a couple of European talents, a well regarded premier league youngster, and still the odd experienced pro on a free…. Because we’re still recovering. The club has restocked the academy age groups, refreshed the academy staff, employed and explored some new data analysis staff/methods. It’s all part of an ongoing process, that appears to require some time and maybe some patience.

People regularly cite Ipswich, Brighton and Brentford as models of success, they had time to deliver that success, it didn’t happen overnight and they were not hamstrung by EFL restrictions for 2 years following admin. So yes, we COULD have recruited better in some cases, and in honesty I would prefer we spend the money earmarked for PL loan fees on a couple of prospects from the lower leagues on permanent deals who you’d hope could step up but worst case scenario would still be our players should we return to league one hopefully ready to bounce straight back up.

The reality appears to be, until a bit more time has passed for the likes of Kenzo, JWZ and the new set of academy players to prove their ability and grow their value, OR we get hefty outside investment, that we’re not yet in a position to sell players for the 8 to 10 million you suggest and we might have to ride out a little bit more rough with the smooth for a while longer. 
 

All my opinion of course and I may be wrong wrong wrong, but that’s how I see it.

Edited August 22 by Caerphilly Ram

[Will Hughes Hair]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Wilson, Ward, Nyambe and even Rooney ahead of his at RB/RWB

Nelson, Cashin, Bradley, Forsyth, Nyambe, Rooney ahead of him at CB

Ozoh, Osborn, Adams, Goudmijn and LThompson ahead of him at DM/CM

His game time would be exceptionally limited, so a loan is the best thing for his development, rather than letting him stagnate in the U21s for a 4th season.

Would agree with that but a 20 man match day squad means that if one of the the 5CMs are suspended and another injured we have zero CMs on the bench.

Surely a concern?

[Animal is a Ram]

2 hours ago, Ambitious said:

Jordan Jones has left Wigan by mutual consent. I know we were vaguely linked with him recently - wouldn’t surprise me if he ended up here. 

Being linked with Exeter by his bit-in-papership Nixon

[Crewton]

3 minutes ago, Papahet said:

People said the exact same about Hughes, Hendrick, Knight, Bird and Cashin, even Thompson...

You don't know how good they are until they get first team football, play with better players etc and for whatever reason PW seems reluctant to give chance to these young players.

Tony Weston another...

No, they didn't. With those players, it was either obvious that they were talented enough and mature enough to be given the opportunity, or we were so short of players at the time that no-one was either surprised or opposed to Rooney picking them.

Would you be happy for Warne to experiment us back to League 1?

[Ambitious]

13 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

Being linked with Exeter by his bit-in-papership Nixon

Makes sense - doesn't seem like we are in the market for a LWB anyway. 

Edited August 22 by Ambitious

[Jram]

3 minutes ago, Crewton said:

No, they didn't. With those players, it was either obvious that they were talented enough and mature enough to be given the opportunity, or we were so short of players at the time that no-one was either surprised or opposed to Rooney picking them.

Would you be happy for Warne to experiment us back to League 1?

I think the managers of the admin period being forced to play academy lads shows the fallacy of not using academy players more.

Granted, that generation was exceptional (won U18 title) but I definitely think there’s a case to be made for giving more minutes to academy players and Bird, Whittaker, Cashin, Knight, Bogle (and the rest) all now thriving in the Championship and abroad is good evidence for doing that 

[Crewton]

6 minutes ago, Jram said:

I think the managers of the admin period being forced to play academy lads shows the fallacy of not using academy players more.

Granted, that generation was exceptional (won U18 title) but I definitely think there’s a case to be made for giving more minutes to academy players and Bird, Whittaker, Cashin, Knight, Bogle (and the rest) all now thriving in the Championship and abroad is good evidence for doing that 

I agree - but only when we have the basis of a team not in danger of relegation.

[Caerphilly Ram]

14 minutes ago, Jram said:

I think the managers of the admin period being forced to play academy lads shows the fallacy of not using academy players more.

Granted, that generation was exceptional (won U18 title) but I definitely think there’s a case to be made for giving more minutes to academy players and Bird, Whittaker, Cashin, Knight, Bogle (and the rest) all now thriving in the Championship and abroad is good evidence for doing that 

I agree there, but it’s a bit of an anomaly. Circumstance forced the situation, similar to when Frank jumped ship to transfer embargoed Chelsea and had to use the likes of Mount, Tomori and Abraham through circumstance. Both situations proved that it can help develop and lead to some real young talents, but sadly both situations proved to be exceptions to the norm with the finances and demands of “normal” football demands/expectations seemingly dictating what goes on. I’d much prefer some sort of mass revision of the football setup to encourage more homegrown players being included in sides throughout the football pyramid.

Sidenote - what a basket case Chelsea are. 

Edited August 22 by Caerphilly Ram

[Ghost of Clough]

46 minutes ago, Ram1988 said:

If we don't manage to get another foward should we give TJJ a short term contract ? Plenty of pace and talent just struggles to keep fit. Protential resell value too.

When you can only name 25 squad players, he's a waste of a spot.

[Loughborough Ram]

I'd sooner take Dwight gale on a short term deal personally

[Comrade 86]

Folk unhappy with Warne's transfer business to date, now advocating the sale of prime assets so that Warne can buy more players whom they also deem to be crap. 

Is that the gist of it? 🤪

[CBRammette]

5 hours ago, Foreveram said:

I’m just worried we won’t be able to keep up this level of hysteria till 3 o’clock on Saturday.

I think they will. Just catching up - think seems worse when you read lots of pages at once rather than dipping in and out 😂

[Ghost of Clough]

19 minutes ago, Jram said:

I think the managers of the admin period being forced to play academy lads shows the fallacy of not using academy players more.

Granted, that generation was exceptional (won U18 title) but I definitely think there’s a case to be made for giving more minutes to academy players and Bird, Whittaker, Cashin, Knight, Bogle (and the rest) all now thriving in the Championship and abroad is good evidence for doing that 

Some of those players were integrated into the squad over time. Others were only drafted into the first team after injuries to first team squad members.

Bird made his debut under Rowett way back in 2017. It took him almost 3 years to become a regular starter.

Whittaker was being slowly introduced to men's football under Cocu (before being bombed out by Rooney).

Bogle would have been loaned out if we had any takers. We didn't, and when our senior RBs were injured, he was given a chance by Lampard.

Likewise, due to an injury crisis, Knight was called up to the Playoff squad by Lampard. Due to a lack of midfielders at the club, he then started pre-season in the first team a d dud enough to earn a spot on the bench for the first few games of the season.

Cashin was thrown in because we had no one else. His performances meant he stayed in the team. Initially used in a midfieod role for 4 games (to kick anything that moved to see games out), he only started a game when we only had 1 other CB in the squad.

 

38 minutes ago, Will Hughes Hair said:

Would agree with that but a 20 man match day squad means that if one of the the 5CMs are suspended and another injured we have zero CMs on the bench.

Surely a concern?

Warne will switch to a 2 man midfield if injuries/suspensions impact us to such a degree and we fail to sign someone.

[CBRammette]

2 hours ago, Barney1991 said:

I haven’t seen a single poster say chuck millions at it. What we are saying is for the club to creative with incomings we’ve started that with the goudmijn and Jakub signings. We need more of it. Like has been previously said we’ve literally got a league 1 squad with a few sprinkle dust. It’s team for the recruitment team to deliver and it would help if warne was more expansive with his football to attract loans 

Very obtuse. So all the many posters saying we need investment now what do they want to do with the money - sort the too boiling water in the taps in the ladies toilets? 

[Will Hughes Hair]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Warne will switch to a 2 man midfield if injuries/suspensions impact us to such a degree and we fail to sign someone.

Surely that’s suboptimal at best? It compromises your tactical options and that’s with only two players unavailable.

[Allen]

14 hours ago, rammieib said:

I agree with the above but answer me this - if you’re sending a Derby player on loan somewhere, what’s the most important thing you’re looking for?

For me - I want development of that player. 

Now my own personal opinion, I don’t see PW with his style and approach as a manager who develops players. 

This is why I think it’s so difficult to attract players even once we are competitive financially.

 

Disagree in terms of development. Playing in front of huge passionate crowds in a highly competitive league seems to me to be a great environment for a player to develop. As for PW, I would trust him totally with the care of one of my young players. To me the sad reality is that players we are trying to loan are highly sought after and as yet we can’t compete financially with many other championship clubs. Money talks and that is the reality we’re having to face.