How impressive is PW as a coach?

[RoyMac5]

28 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

All of the money we did have had to go into wages. We literally didn’t spend a fee on a player. We had weird loans and promotions clauses and all kinds of creativity going on. How else could you describe the other than shoe string? We weren’t able to compete with Bolton and Pompey for players - we even got out manoeuvred by Charlton!

There are things that Warne can be fairly criticised on but I don’t think managing our budget can be one. Credit where credit is due!

CBT? Washington? Kane?

[Nuwtfly]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

CBT? Washington? Kane?

No up front fees for any of these players as I understand it?

[Srg]

3 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

No up front fees for any of these players as I understand it?

Sort of. Believe it was a loan fee for CBT wasn’t it?

[Nuwtfly]

7 minutes ago, Srg said:

Sort of. Believe it was a loan fee for CBT wasn’t it?

I’m not sure - but if that’s all we spent in terms of fees over a season, I can’t understand how anyone can make the case that we are the big spenders of the division 

And as you said earlier, the argument that we are based on our wage budget doesn’t really hold up either, as a lot of those players whose wages are filling it up were not signed by Warne anyway!

[Leeds Ram]

I have mixed feelings on Warne. He's done well to get us up but let's be honest we were favourites and had in-built advantages. The championship will be a whole different monster and while Warne does have a track record in league 1 he doesn't really have one in the championship. We do need to temper our expectations i think. There's little chance of a tilt at the play offs and survival is the big priority. That might be difficult to take at first...  

I think the big issue is recruitment. We were a big pull in league 1 but in the championship we are less so and the squad needs significant additions. Who knows if Warne is the man but we should back him until otherwise.

[ram59]

As a coach and together with his coaching team, the jury's still out.

But as a manager, I think that he has been very good. His interviews, whilst not to everyone's taste are not full of the usual answers, they're different and interesting. His managing of the squad has resulted in a united squad and a togetherness which had been impressive. Maybe his recruitment plan which tends to place character above everything else, is not such a bad thing.

[winktheram]

22 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Thought most of the coaching was done by his team rather than himself?

Yes he's always said Rich and the team coach. He 'trains'. Sets them up etc etc. he feels more of a Manager than 'head coach' but it all might be semantics. 

Edited May 5 by winktheram

[Tamworthram]

5 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

I have mixed feelings on Warne. He's done well to get us up but let's be honest we were favourites and had in-built advantages. The championship will be a whole different monster and while Warne does have a track record in league 1 he doesn't really have one in the championship. We do need to temper our expectations i think. There's little chance of a tilt at the play offs and survival is the big priority. That might be difficult to take at first...  

I think the big issue is recruitment. We were a big pull in league 1 but in the championship we are less so and the squad needs significant additions. Who knows if Warne is the man but we should back him until otherwise.

Genuine question, what were the in-built advantages to put us ahead of everyone bar Portsmouth?

I agree regarding expectations. Anywhere close to challenging for the play offs will be a big surprise (IMO) and a massive bonus.

Regarding his ability as a coach, it’s too early to say. Let’s see how good he is at turning a collection of “average or untested” championship players (on the reasonable conclusion that we’re not such a big draw in the Championship as we were in League 1) into a decent team.

[alram]

50 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

I have mixed feelings on Warne. He's done well to get us up but let's be honest we were favourites and had in-built advantages. The championship will be a whole different monster and while Warne does have a track record in league 1 he doesn't really have one in the championship. We do need to temper our expectations i think. There's little chance of a tilt at the play offs and survival is the big priority. That might be difficult to take at first...  

I think the big issue is recruitment. We were a big pull in league 1 but in the championship we are less so and the squad needs significant additions. Who knows if Warne is the man but we should back him until otherwise.

think we will learn a lot next season not only about warne but the ownership.

 

how much money is clowes willing to put in? a championship owner is going to have to underwrite big losses every year and thats before squad investment. will our recruitment strategy shift to more long term? can warne actually compete at championship level? 

 

i think if we have a boring season its been a success

Edited May 5 by alram

[MadAmster]

1 hour ago, Nuwtfly said:

I’m not sure - but if that’s all we spent in terms of fees over a season, I can’t understand how anyone can make the case that we are the big spenders of the division 

And as you said earlier, the argument that we are based on our wage budget doesn’t really hold up either, as a lot of those players whose wages are filling it up were not signed by Warne anyway!

CBT was out of contract this summer at Charlton. We had no money in the "buy" pot but did have some in the "loan fee" pot. We paid a £300K loan fee and he's a DCFC player from July 1st when his CAFC contract has expired.

[Crewton]

It's clear from the Wendies, Brum-bums and Huddersfield's struggles this season that poor recruitment, managerial changes and ownership issues can mean a passable championship squad underperforming. If we get the recruitment bit right, the stability we have from top to bottom in the club now should help.

[jono]

7 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Our gross revenue will be right behind the parachute brigade, no?,  because of the gate.  (Depending on sponsorship revenue I suppose. )
But our expenditure on the squad will be middle of the pack imo - unless we find an investor who’s minted   
 

WTS !

 

Yep, spot on. The next question though is the proportion of revenue to wages and with that can you break even ? 
 

I’ll suggest that DC might want to support PW purchases with added capital, but I am pretty sure that he wants to have a club that on a day to day basis supports itself either from crowd revenue, sponsors, TV, or academy fruitfulness. 

[jono]

5 hours ago, Crewton said:

It's clear from the Wendies, Brum-bums and Huddersfield's struggles this season that poor recruitment, managerial changes and ownership issues can mean a passable championship squad underperforming. If we get the recruitment bit right, the stability we have from top to bottom in the club now should help.

It fascinates me that the gamble is the thing in the championship.  MM was the extreme example but so many owners are rolling the dice rather than building from foundations. I admit that I am a steady Eddy but that doesn’t mean risk averse, just that risks need to be calculated and have a back system if they go pear shaped. 

[cannable]

1 hour ago, jono said:

It fascinates me that the gamble is the thing in the championship.  MM was the extreme example but so many owners are rolling the dice rather than building from foundations. I admit that I am a steady Eddy but that doesn’t mean risk averse, just that risks need to be calculated and have a back system if they go pear shaped. 

I suppose the counter argument to that is our spell under Clough

We did everything right, we built slowly, we developed the academy, we spent what we made in sales, we had a bottom third budget in the division*… we were still losing £7,000,000 a year.

 

*just for comparison, the QPR Final team’s wage bill was less than half of last season’s

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, jono said:

 

I’ll suggest that DC might want to support PW purchases with added capital, but I am pretty sure that he wants to have a club that on a day to day basis supports itself either from crowd revenue, sponsors, TV, or academy fruitfulness. 

Love ‘ academy fruitfulness’. (Sounds like John Keats.)

The recent chaos has forced us to pi$$ away the historic value of academy investment but DC seems to support the academy model. 
 

For that model to be successful, the first team ethos needs to be aligned with it and its objectives. Cocu bought into this, it seems. Possibly unrealistic to ask Warne to focus on it in div 1, with such pressure on promotion. But now he’s succeeded in that I’d hope that promoting the academy and its products will form part of his approach. Good coaching of youngsters is a big part of this 

Edited May 5 by kevinhectoring

[kevinhectoring]

On 04/05/2024 at 12:47, Ram a lamb a ding dong said:

He couldn't get a tune out of Kane, Ward, Sonny at first and then they contributed significantly. Sibs and Tommo got better as the season went on also.

That’s an interesting view. I watched Ward in particular looking excellent on the ball in his early days, but being assigned defensive duties that played to his weaknesses; and then not being picked (presumably because he failed in defence). You’re suggesting whilst this was ongoing Warne was coaching him to be a better player. My impression from watching him early on was that that better player was what he was, but that he was played out of position, then not played enough. 

Tommo is also an interesting one. He was at his best when he first started (under Rooney). He finished this season well and let’s hope he progresses further

I find it hard to know what Warne’s coaching has done for Sibs. He failed up front end of last season. He’s been eventually forced into the left wing  back position and he’s done pretty well - in div 1. What that move means for Sibs in the longer term, who knows? I’m not sure he’s changed as a footballer under Warne tho, he’s just changed position 

[sage]

13 hours ago, Nuwtfly said:

Oh come on, we wasn’t able to pay a fee for any players! You can’t tell me we were the big spenders

We had the highest wage bill in the league. We were able to pay fees this season and did so.

 

[Nuwtfly]

19 minutes ago, sage said:

We had the highest wage bill in the league. We were able to pay fees this season and did so.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, the wage bill is probably that high due to the contracts of players not signed by Warne, so I’m not sure it’s fair to use that against him. 

Think your second sentence is pretty knowingly unfair, too. You know as well as I do that there were still restrictions on spending; restrictions that have now been lifted!

I’ll say it again: there are areas that you can rightly criticise Warne on, but this surely isn’t one of them!

[FlyBritishMidland]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

That’s an interesting view. I watched Ward in particular looking excellent on the ball in his early days, but being assigned defensive duties that played to his weaknesses; and then not being picked (presumably because he failed in defence). You’re suggesting whilst this was ongoing Warne was coaching him to be a better player. My impression from watching him early on was that that better player was what he was, but that he was played out of position, then not played enough. 

Tommo is also an interesting one. He was at his best when he first started (under Rooney). He finished this season well and let’s hope he progresses further

I find it hard to know what Warne’s coaching has done for Sibs. He failed up front end of last season. He’s been eventually forced into the left wing  back position and he’s done pretty well - in div 1. What that move means for Sibs in the longer term, who knows? I’m not sure he’s changed as a footballer under Warne tho, he’s just changed position 

That’s an interesting view.  Ward got injured in the 3rd game of the season against Oxford, that’s why he wasn’t picked.  And he playing as a wing-back, his best position.  Wilson then played and by the time he was fit we’d also signed Nyambe and we’re playing with a back 4.

[sage]

24 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

As I said earlier in this thread, the wage bill is probably that high due to the contracts of players not signed by Warne, so I’m not sure it’s fair to use that against him. 

Think your second sentence is pretty knowingly unfair, too. You know as well as I do that there were still restrictions on spending; restrictions that have now been lifted!

I’ll say it again: there are areas that you can rightly criticise Warne on, but this surely isn’t one of them!

I'm not criticising Warne. I'm just suggesting that talk of a shoestring budget is nonsense. 

Also you said we couldn't pay fees. That is wrong. We couldnt pay million pound fees but we could pay fees. We eventually did pay fees.

I'm not criticising Warne. I'm just correcting 2 factual errors.