Rail travel to games - away or home

[Grumpy Git]

You do realise that a lot of 'peak' train fares are priced to actively discourage us great unwashed to use them?

I also take issue with the term 'politically motivated strikes'. I'd say not having a pay rise in 3 or 4 years with inflation at 10%+ (and more for food) has f*** all to do with politics. The TOC's (under the guise of the Ministry of Transport, but say it quietly) is also trying to change the drivers T&C's such that they can change their shift start/end time by +/- SIX hours at short notice (I believe its current +/- three hours).

For balance, I've no connection whatsoever to the rail industry, any union or a political party, I'd just like to see a more even society, where the boss doesn't earn the bog cleaners entire wage by lunchtime on 2nd January.

[Jourdan]

Travelling by train is soul-destroying. It’s a case of paying through the nose to be treated as an afterthought.

If you compare pricing v service provided, the public are being massively shortchanged. The pricing system is farcical and illogical. You will encounter cancellations, delays, breakdowns, strikes, and overcrowded, dirty, uncomfortable trains on a very regular basis.

As a daily commuter to and from work, not a week goes by without some kind of issue. Some weeks it will be an everyday occurrence.

Now imagine being a football fan and let’s be honest, travelling by train doesn’t bear thinking about.

[Foreveram]

6 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Travelling by train is soul-destroying. It’s a case of paying through the nose to be treated as an afterthought.

If you compare pricing v service provided, the public are being massively shortchanged. The pricing system is farcical and illogical. You will encounter cancellations, delays, breakdowns, strikes, and overcrowded, dirty, uncomfortable trains on a very regular basis.

As a daily commuter to and from work, not a week goes by without some kind of issue. Some weeks it will be an everyday occurrence.

Now imagine being a football fan and let’s be honest, travelling by train doesn’t bear thinking about.

You’re not selling it to me 😳

[MadAmster]

On 20/02/2024 at 16:11, Grumpy Git said:

Strikes are not the reason that the 'normal' rail service is rubbish though.

Since Covid, the government just paid the train operating companies a fixed amount to run the trains, so their income is now guaranteed whether the train is full or empty (the government now gets 100% of ticket sales revenue). Hence they don't really give a stuff about what service they provide. Avanti has been totally crap since they took over Virgin, but they still got a new contract.

It also makes me 'smile' when people suggest train drivers are out of order going on strike because (to paraphrase) 'they all on £65,000/year and are just greedy barstards'. What has salary got to do with the right to strike or not? MP's are on £86,500/year and I would trust the majority of those to tie their own shoelaces.

Isn't the biggest part of their gripe that the changes to working practice the rail companies want to bring in are not conducive passenger safety? Isn't another problem they have that the companies want drivers to work more weekends and nights but also decrease the premium payments for working weekends and nights?

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

I hate trains.  They're late, packed, dirty and there's always someone eating a vile sandwich stuffed with egg or onions.  In winter the windows are dripping with everyone's breath as the person opposite hacks their flu virus up to add some more.

Trains can feck off.

[CBRammette]

4 hours ago, Grumpy Git said:

Do you know about Group Save (not a lot of poeple do)?

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tickets-railcards-offers/promotions/group-save/

Yes but thank you. Too much for mum though by train when she comes 

[Chellaston Ram]

I gave up getting trains to games a few years ago, Norwich away we had signal failure about 20 miles outside Norwich and missed the entire first half, then Bristol City away we had signal failure again outside Bristol Parkway and missed the kick off.

[Eddie]

6 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

I’ve been to Luxembourg and I’m not sure there are that many “poor” people there.😅
 

Luxembourg is a rich country and I think it’s fairly safe to assume that they can offer free public transport because of the countries wealth (and the fact that it’s a small country) and it’s wealth hasn’t been accumulated as a result of the free public transport. 

Never said it was. Perhaps, the rich countries ought to have a moral obligation to ensure that the less well off within them are able to reduce their expenditure by taking advantage of such things as free (or reduced cost) transport. I believe that the free public transport system was only introduced in Luxembourg 3 or 4 years ago.

 

[Tamworthram]

12 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Never said it was. Perhaps, the rich countries ought to have a moral obligation to ensure that the less well off within them are able to reduce their expenditure by taking advantage of such things as free (or reduced cost) transport. I believe that the free public transport system was only introduced in Luxembourg 3 or 4 years ago.

 

Introduced in 2020 apparently (a few years after I was there). To be fair, it must be a lot more feasible for such a small, yet rich, county like Luxembourg to introduce such a scheme than somewhere like to UK.

I’m not sure nations governments and moral obligations go together in many places in the world but it’s a nice idea. Having said that, not something I know much about but, isn’t there already a £2 cap on bus journeys in England (bar some exceptions) funded by the government? Although this is due to finish at the end of December. The trains are a different matter and I would imagine a massive investment in the infrastructure would be required if the network is to cope with a big uplift in the number of passengers.

[Eddie]

31 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Introduced in 2020 apparently (a few years after I was there). To be fair, it must be a lot more feasible for such a small, yet rich, county like Luxembourg to introduce such a scheme than somewhere like to UK.

I’m not sure nations governments and moral obligations go together in many places in the world but it’s a nice idea. Having said that, not something I know much about but, isn’t there already a £2 cap on bus journeys in England (bar some exceptions) funded by the government? Although this is due to finish at the end of December. The trains are a different matter and I would imagine a massive investment in the infrastructure would be required if the network is to cope with a big uplift in the number of passengers.

Or return the ownership of the railways to their rightful owners and start anew.

I feel that we have missed the boat though. The time for massive investment in infrastructure projects (e.g. public transport) is when interest rates are low.

[Van der MoodHoover]

15 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

Our rail service is shocking, except of course for the London commuter trains which politicians are most likely to use.

I beg to differ having done that trip for 3 years.

They're rubbish as well.

The tracks in London are dreadful and slow.

[Boycie]

2 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I beg to differ having done that trip for 3 years.

They're rubbish as well.

The tracks in London are dreadful and slow.

Cheaper though?

[Van der MoodHoover]

4 minutes ago, Boycie said:

Cheaper though?

Used to be, but when tfl was formed prices went up a lot and the rules for getting compo for late/missing trains got tougher.

Off peak not bad 19 quid to London from Eastleigh single which is 70 miles.

9.40 quid from the sister in laws which is 20 miles.

[uttoxram75]

9 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

I’m not disputing it as I simply don’t know but how and when has it been proven that cheap (or free) public transport is a benefit for the economy as a whole?

Many countries/cities have cheap transit systems to get folk to work quickly and efficiently. There are many examples to look up but its also common sense really when you think about it.

One example,

My factory really struggles to recruit because you cannot get to Uttoxeter by bus or train for shift start and finish times. Working 9-5 is fine but all production line jobs are 6-2, 2-10 or 7-7 shifts and impossible without a car. A lot of applicants don't have their own transport.

Cheap and efficient transit systems, running at times to suit shift workers would benefit both employers and workers, giving the latter more options.

[Grumpy Git]

18 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Cheap and efficient transit systems, running at times to suit shift workers would benefit both employers and workers, giving the latter more options.

Stop talking sense. 😬

One of the reasons I've 'enjoyed' L1, is that all weekend games are Saturday 3.00 p.m. kick-offs. So almost every game is a good day out on the train. 🍻

Championship not so bad, but you can stuff the Prem for me unless its a Saturday 3 p.m. KO time.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

43 minutes ago, Stockport Ram said:

Trains (and buses for that matter) seem, by general consensus, to be called “public” transport. 

Shouldn’t they be in public ownership then?

Even if you wish to argue that the great unwashed have no inalienable right to transport, they surely do in respect of natural resources like light, heat, water. 

How anyone with a scintilla of a moral compass can justify supporting the use of such natural resources as a means for profit will mystify me until the day I die.

In Germany they have Arriva buses which are in stupendous condition in the main and dirt cheap.  According to the drivers they're dirt cheap and twice as nice as they bought the company and charge higher prices for crap boneshakers in the UK ,to subside better quality for half the ticket price their end.  Oh how he laughed.

[uttoxram75]

9 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

I’ve been to Luxembourg and I’m not sure there are that many “poor” people there.😅
 

Luxembourg is a rich country and I think it’s fairly safe to assume that they can offer free public transport because of the countries wealth (and the fact that it’s a small country) and it’s wealth hasn’t been accumulated as a result of the free public transport. 

UK is one of the richest countries in the world Tamworth, as you most probably know, lets not pretend we couldn't afford it.

[Alan Ramage 4 EVA]

8 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

UK is one of the richest countries in the world Tamworth, as you most probably know, lets not pretend we couldn't afford it.

Talking of Tamworth and "Richness" .The railway could ask for a loan from "Spudman "

[Tamworthram]

7 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

UK is one of the richest countries in the world Tamworth, as you most probably know, lets not pretend we couldn't afford it.

Well of course it is a rich country but in terms of size (geographic, population, public transport network) you can’t really compare it to a country like Luxembourg as you most probably know. The problem is that whilst the GDP for the UK is very high (top 6 in the world I think) so is the cost of running the country hence the high national debt (104% of GDP v 27% for Luxembourg).

Maybe the UK could afford it. Has it been costed? Assuming it wouldn’t be cheap (as I say, if you’re going to offer free or cheap train tickets it isn’t as simple as lowering the prices. As we’ve discussed on this thread already, the infrastructure couldn’t (including the number of trains. I believe most, if not all, commuter trains are already full to overcrowded for example. How are you going to reduce congestion on the roads if the busy trains can’t take any more passengers) couldn’t cope. how would it be paid for? The simple answer might be to increase taxes but such a project would be competing with the other very worthy causes. So, unless you have the answers, let’s not pretend it’s an easy thing to deliver and fund. Maybe the price of off peak train tickets could be significantly reduced (that’s probably where the current capacity is) but it wouldn’t help reduce commuter traffic. 

I would fully support a free or low cost public transport system but I think it would be a little naive to think it’s an easy fix.

[Tamworthram]

8 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Many countries/cities have cheap transit systems to get folk to work quickly and efficiently. There are many examples to look up but its also common sense really when you think about it.

One example,

My factory really struggles to recruit because you cannot get to Uttoxeter by bus or train for shift start and finish times. Working 9-5 is fine but all production line jobs are 6-2, 2-10 or 7-7 shifts and impossible without a car. A lot of applicants don't have their own transport.

Cheap and efficient transit systems, running at times to suit shift workers would benefit both employers and workers, giving the latter more options.

I agree with you in principle but I suspect many countries have a good and affordable public transport system to get people to work during the core hours to the cities but do they run such a service to the smaller towns like Uttoxeter and Tamworth at the hours that would suit shift workers? Maybe they do, I don’t know. Also, I don’t know where you work but, unless you work in the town centre, such a service would also need to serve the surrounding area.