Rail travel to games - away or home

[Wistaston Ram]

8 minutes ago, angieram said:

Interesting responses from those of you that use railways regularly,  you seem fairly content with the prices and service.

But factor in a second person, and the road prices always work out much cheaper. I travel with a partner, and rail just isn't an affordable option for us.

Not to mention the overcrowding, lack of facilities,  cancellations etc.

Yes the second person factor makes driving far more attractive than the train.  If I go on my own (unless a night game) I take the train from Crewe to Derby (£13.80 day return) which is cheaper than my fuel costs would be for the 120 mile round trip.  We even got 4 carriages for the Shrews game, but I still had to stand until Stoke. Normally it's only two carriages and as has been said, a nightmare when Uttoxeter races are on. I'd much rather take the train for environmental reasons and I have had some enjoyable chats with fellow rams and away fans during the journey.  However I end up using the car far more than I'd like if there are two of us or I have to get to Portsmouth or Ipswich on a Friday night!

[Tamworthram]

13 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

All public transport should be run for the benefit of, well, the public. Its proven that cheap (or free) public transport is a benefit for the economy as a whole. It goes against the profit driven thinking but people who travel tend to spend money on their way and when they get there.

On race days at Uttoxeter they never put an extra coach on the train service. Its bonkers. There's often fights on the platforms after a race meeting because people can't squeeze on the trains to Derby or Stoke/Crewe. If train companies had to make a profit from customers they'd put an extra coach or two on for a couple of hours before or after each meeting. They obviously get government handouts for their shareholders without having to provide a service to satisfy their customers.

 

I’m not disputing it as I simply don’t know but how and when has it been proven that cheap (or free) public transport is a benefit for the economy as a whole?

[Eddie]

32 minutes ago, Old Spalding Ram said:

A Football Supporters Association poll morphing into a political point scoring thread.

………………Who’d a thought it.

 

Life is politics.

[sage]

8 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I’m not disputing it as I simply don’t know but how and when has it been proven that cheap (or free) public transport is a benefit for the economy as a whole?

If its good for the environment then its good for the economy.

If its reduces traffic congestion its good for the economy.

 

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Git said:

Driving to Derby and back (~200 miles) would cost me about £33 in fuel and say £5 parking.

Train fare (split tickets) off peak is ~£17 return, plus as much beer as my bladder can take.

Forgive me, as I'm no expert on the matter, but I do believe that there is a way of emptying said bladder... more than once... and therefore getting absolutely shittzered is most achievable.

 

PS:

I really, really love you, I do!  🤍🍻

[Eddie]

11 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I’m not disputing it as I simply don’t know but how and when has it been proven that cheap (or free) public transport is a benefit for the economy as a whole?

What is being seen in Europe (more than 50 cities and the entire country of Luxembourg now offer totally free public transport) is that poorer people are benefiting enormously because it leaves more money in their pockets. Saying that, many European mass transit systems are nationalised/state-owned, and the 'normal' fares were a fraction of the cost compared to the UK, so benefits overall are difficult to ascertain. In some cities, there has actually been a slight reduction in the number of people using public transport and a corresponding increase in the use of private cars. Perhaps there is an element of those who can afford the alternative to rubbing shoulders with the great unwashed doing precisely that.

[CBRammette]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Git said:

Driving to Derby and back (~200 miles) would cost me about £33 in fuel and say £5 parking.

Train fare (split tickets) off peak is ~£17 return, plus as much beer as my bladder can take.

Now we have four travelling with STs if we all go on train cost not viable. Only if just 2 of us but thats more usual for mid-week games and like you we cant get home after night match.  Also my mum is 80 so she prefers being chauffeured on a heated car seat! 

[Grumpy Git]

3 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

Now we have four travelling with STs if we all go on train cost not viable. Only if just 2 of us but thats more usual for mid-week games and like you we cant get home after night match.  Also my mum is 80 so she prefers being chauffeured on a heated car seat! 

Do you know about Group Save (not a lot of poeple do)?

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tickets-railcards-offers/promotions/group-save/

[Tamworthram]

19 minutes ago, Eddie said:

What is being seen in Europe (more than 50 cities and the entire country of Luxembourg now offer totally free public transport) is that poorer people are benefiting enormously because it leaves more money in their pockets. Saying that, many European mass transit systems are nationalised/state-owned, and the 'normal' fares were a fraction of the cost compared to the UK, so benefits overall are difficult to ascertain. In some cities, there has actually been a slight reduction in the number of people using public transport and a corresponding increase in the use of private cars. Perhaps there is an element of those who can afford the alternative to rubbing shoulders with the great unwashed doing precisely that.

I’ve been to Luxembourg and I’m not sure there are that many “poor” people there.😅
 

Luxembourg is a rich country and I think it’s fairly safe to assume that they can offer free public transport because of the countries wealth (and the fact that it’s a small country) and it’s wealth hasn’t been accumulated as a result of the free public transport. 

Edited February 21 by Tamworthram

[Tamworthram]

24 minutes ago, sage said:

If its good for the environment then its good for the economy.

If its reduces traffic congestion its good for the economy.

 

I’m not sure the first statement is always true. I reckon, if we really want to do something to protect the environment then it’s going to cost us (and the economy).

Is the second statement a proven fact or just a logical assumption? That’s what I was querying, whether it had been “proven”.

[Ram-Alf]

6 hours ago, Crewton said:

The last two posts illustrate what happened with my train on the way back from Exeter last week. It was supposed to be a 5 coach train from Plymouth, but they were a coach short - hence, some people without seat reservations had to stand because they "dropped" the unreserved coach. At Bristol, two trains to Manchester half an hour either side of ours had been cancelled due to a shortage of staff owing to a broken rail north of Brum preventing them getting to Bristol in time. . So all the passengers from the earlier train, and those from the later train who'd arrived early for their train were directed onto our already crowded, undersized train in order to pick up another connection at Birmingham. Even after Birmingham, it was standing room only until I got off at Derby. Miraculously, the train arrived pretty much on time, so the only compensation for passengers who'd endured a really unpleasant journey was 5% of the ticket price if they hadn't been able to get to their reserved seat.

Rail travel in the UK is fast becoming like those images you see of overcrowded trains in India. Strikes are simply adding another level of disruption to passengers. The government and train operators aren't being inconvenienced at all as far as I can see, which is why the dispute hasn't been resolved yet.

https://news.sky.com/story/martin-lewis-criticises-disgraceful-conditions-on-packed-london-to-sheffield-train-with-one-toilet-13076346

[sage]

Just now, Tamworthram said:

I’m not sure the first statement is always true. I reckon, if we really want to do something to protect the environment then it’s going to cost us (and the economy).

Is the second statement a proven fact or just a logical assumption? That’s what I was querying, whether it had been “proven”.

In the first instance, there are economic benefits as there are economic costs for climate change. Long term thinking.

The second is mainly logical assumption though I sure there have been studies on impact of traffic congestion on business. Just not by me. 

[Tamworthram]

4 minutes ago, sage said:

In the first instance, there are economic benefits as there are economic costs for climate change. Long term thinking.

The second is mainly logical assumption though I sure there have been studies on impact of traffic congestion on business. Just not by me. 

I can’t help but think that to make a serious impact on congestion you’d need a significant investment in the public transport infrastructure rather than just making the cost cheaper in order to attract more users. If only we could have found several billion for such a wide scale and effective project. (HS2 cough cough). 

[sage]

3 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I can’t help but think that to make a serious impact on congestion you’d need a significant investment in the public transport infrastructure rather than just making the cost cheaper in order to attract more users. If only we could have found several billion for such a wide scale and effective project. (HS2 cough cough). 

Indeed

[eddielewis]

30 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I’m not disputing it as I simply don’t know but how and when has it been proven that cheap (or free) public transport is a benefit for the economy as a whole?

 

21 minutes ago, sage said:

If its good for the environment then its good for the economy.

If its reduces traffic congestion its good for the economy.

 

 

Also people who regularly use public transport in this country are shown to be happier and more active/healthier/weigh less than those who frequently drive. A sick or sicker population of which we are since the pandemic is total lead weight around our country. A more mobile society through public transport would increase our productivity which is the key ignored statistic (by both main political parties) of which we have desperately been lagging behind neighbouring countries since the 60's! The common link is that car use since the 60's skyrocketed like also in neighbouring countries but they did not completely forget that public transport and social mobilisation is key.

 

[Simmo’s left foot]

I think modest and targeted improvements spread across the rail network would make a big difference. One extra carriage on a four carriage train for example. Increase train frequency at busy times. Improve station infrastructure, but many stations are a lot better nowadays, particularly the bigger ones.

I think the rail system is better now than it was in the 1970s, but the profits should be retained and reinvested, government should avoid dabbling, set the business targets, including employing plenty of apprentices, and unions need to stop holding politically motivated strikes. Both sides need to come together, but the result cannot be equivalent to another British Rail 1970s style (Job for life/jobs for the boys etc.) 

 

[Grumpy Git]

I've gone from spending my first 25 odd years in a very rural environment in the middle of the Peak District to the last 30 in a city with fantastic public transport, (arguably the best in England outside London).

I do miss the countryside, but I'd miss the convenience of not being able to hop on a train at the drop of a hat to get anywhere without having to drive at all, a lot more.

[Malagaram]

 

5 hours ago, Crewton said:

The last two posts illustrate what happened with my train on the way back from Exeter last week. It was supposed to be a 5 coach train from Plymouth, but they were a coach short - hence, some people without seat reservations had to stand because they "dropped" the unreserved coach. At Bristol, two trains to Manchester half an hour either side of ours had been cancelled due to a shortage of staff owing to a broken rail north of Brum preventing them getting to Bristol in time. . So all the passengers from the earlier train, and those from the later train who'd arrived early for their train were directed onto our already crowded, undersized train in order to pick up another connection at Birmingham. Even after Birmingham, it was standing room only until I got off at Derby. Miraculously, the train arrived pretty much on time, so the only compensation for passengers who'd endured a really unpleasant journey was 5% of the ticket price if they hadn't been able to get to their reserved seat.

Rail travel in the UK is fast becoming like those images you see of overcrowded trains in India. Strikes are simply adding another level of disruption to passengers. The government and train operators aren't being inconvenienced at all as far as I can see, which is why the dispute hasn't been resolved yet.

"Rail travel in the UK is fast becoming like those images you see of overcrowded trains in India"

Do you mean the ones where cross legged Indians are squatting on the roof of the carriages

[1of4]

7 hours ago, Cb1289 said:

I still cannot fathom how the people who set the train prices think that £225 for a return ticket to London from Derby is a reasonable price to pay.

I know you can get it cheaper by booking specific train tickets a few weeks in advance but this is rarely practical and doesn't exactly encourage people to use the service.

Ticket pricing is plain bonkers. Booked a train ticket, not for a football match, on Trainline and the cheapest ticket cost £28. The stupiid bit was the next train an half hour later, was more than double the price and this pattern of price fluctuation was repeated twice more. 

I  grudgingly accept  the price increase during periods of high demand but these trains were for the late morning, early afternoon. 

[Crewton]

8 minutes ago, Malagaram said:

 

"Rail travel in the UK is fast becoming like those images you see of overcrowded trains in India"

Do you mean the ones where cross legged Indians are squatting on the roof of the carriages

That's them. Coming to a EMR train near you very soon 😉