The League of Enjoyment

[Bris Vegas]

1 hour ago, Comrade 86 said:

1. Uncle George - Perhaps a tad misty-eyed, but we played some wonderful stuff under George and it was a lot of fun

2. Steve McClaren (#1) - The only team in recent history that I literally never worried about conceding the first goal - Meh, we'll score more! Undone in the end though and a bittersweet memory now

3. Frank Lampard - Leeds 2nd leg was just unbridled joy and the way we played that night!!! Mostly though, only did what he should have having a strong team and then adding Wilson, Mount and Tomori to the mix. 

4. Nigel Clough - had a few misfires but also got in some of our best value signings and the team was starting to play some really good stuff when they sacked him. I felt sorry for him. I thought he was poorly treated.

5. Darren Wassall - Nowhere near as bad as some made out at the time. Possibly not as good either.

6. Paul Warne - Jekyll and Hyde football, sometimes in the same game, but has produced two runs that were lovely while they lasted.

7. Gary Rowett - Kick and run, but he did manage a run to the play-offs. A bit meh, on balance.

8. Paul Clement - I'd love to have been a fly on the wall for **that** convo with MM.  He wasn't bad, just a bit beige.

9. Liam Rosenior - had just started to click in incredibly difficult circumstances when released from his duties. Argued this was a big mistake on here and still believe that now.

10. Philip Cocu - was so happy when he arrived - undermined at every turn by players who could not grasp their role and a conniving Rooney who fancied the job as his own. On reflection, probably not the coach I assumed he was.

11. Wayne Rooney - He gets credit for the season when bar under Jewell, I felt we were most together as fans. The football was poor, given the personnel, but the enjoyment, oddly, was plentiful despite this. and our horrible circumstances. He's a sneaky **** though.

12. Paul Jewell - Absolute shyte, but it was great fun pretending we'd scored and singing nonsense and at least the fans were united and still capable of humour. 

13. Phil Brown - Bit of a tart really, what did he bring?

14. Terry Westley - Who? I'd literally wiped him from memory

15. Nigel Pearson - Very briefly came around to thinking he might be alright. WTAF! Got plenty wrong in my life, but this was an absolute doozy. Wanted him gone almost from the off. Apparently came close to throat-punching MM though, so that kept him off the bottom place.

16. John Gregory - I can't! 

17. Billy Davies - Made my skin crawl. Remember thinking after the play off win that we might be bang in trouble and so it proved. The wee man flashed his knickers at everyone and was as poisonous and toxic as managers come, but he did bring 'success' of sorts.

 

 

Wassall actually brought the fun back late that season. We had some terrific wins under him, including the 4-0 over Hull.

The lack of experience was a major downfall though. Throwing away the 3-0 lead at Rotherham was just ridiculous. 

But what did it for me was the naivety in playing George Thorne in deadrubber against cloggers Ipswich Town on the final game of the season. If there was ever a time to wrap that man in cotton wool, that was it.

And then we lost 0-3 to Hull where our midfield was just all wrong. Heroic second leg effort but just fell short.

I accepted losing to Villa and Fulham in the playoffs as just losing to better teams.

QPR was a freak. But that 2015-16 playoffs was the big missed opportunity. Hull and Wednesday were poor.

 

[IlsonDerby]

10 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

First manager I have clear memories of is Nigel Clough, so I’ll start from him. Based on quality of football only, not necessarily results / managerial performance, I’d rank it as the following (only permanent managers included):

1. Steve McClaren

2. Frank Lampard

3. Paul Clement

4. Phillip Cocu

5. Nigel Clough 

6. Wayne Rooney

7. Gary Rowett

8. Paul Warne

9. Nigel Pearson

Nobody will ever beat the sheer incompetence of Nigel Pearson who is arguably the worst manager to ever sit in the Pride Park dugout. With the talent he had available, how he managed to deliver such woeful performances I will never know.

But Paul Warne is the one who’s come closest in my opinion. I’ve always compared him to Rowett, in terms of being a dislikeable man who plays terrible, but effective football. Only Warne’s football isn’t effective enough, given the level he’s managing at and the quality of players at his disposal, so he falls below Rowett in my rankings. 

In my view Paul Warne has the easiest job of any Derby manager in my lifetime. Getting a squad with this much quality promoted from such a poor league should be something any idiot could manage. But he seems to be making a mess of it so far.

Can’t believe Clough is that far down! 
 

when he took the leash off we were superb, the issue is one bad result and we’d go back to draw first win second mentality but some of the football under Clough in the aforementioned leash off short bursts was unreal. The small number of games we had bueno, Commons and cwyka behind Kuqi were liquid football. 

[IlsonDerby]

9 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I never really understood the hate for Davies. I think in the promotion season, he really did an excellent job. Whatever happened in summer 2007 between him and the board, we’ll probably never truly know. There is probably fault that lies on both sides.

But before that, he put together a really honest, hardworking, organised team with a sprinkle of quality in the right areas. Leacock, Oakley and Barnes were excellent that season. Howard had the kind of season Collins is having now but with far more adulation.

I think it was a really fun season. There were some quality away days. Howard’s last minute winner v Wednesday, Howard again v Southampton, Howard at the double v Preston, for example. Even going up to Sunderland and despite losing in the dying seconds, all the talk was about that goal from Barnes.

Yes, we didn’t play the same quality of football as Wolves, West Brom and Southampton as regularly, but we had our moments. We absolutely blew away Colchester on a Friday night as I recall.

We definitely didn’t play the same kind of football we did under Burley but we were very adaptable and could find different ways to win.

You always felt like Billy would do his homework and get us set up in a way that would give us a chance against anyone.

Dave Jones left foot was something else as well! 
Plus going 1-0 up against Portsmouth in our first premier league game back at pride park before Andy Todd’s diving header to rescue a point. 
 

It was very very good before it turned sour but the reason people put less emphasis on the football played by that team (because it was quite dull quite a bit of the time) is because the players were not a promotion squad and yet he had them up there punching well above. 

[BaaLocks]

13 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I keep reading people saying ‘this is the worst football I’ve ever seen’ or words to that effect when discussing the football being played under Warne at the moment.

Go on, show one comment where someone actually says 'this is the worst football I've ever seen' or even words to that effect. People have issues with it, style or entertainment, but I don't see anyone calling it out as being the worst they've ever seen.

It helps frame the discussion if your view of the alternate, or aligned, view is grounded in some sort of reality and not just swayed to extremes to give you something to rail against (Heavens forbid that happens in todays society).

[Jourdan]

48 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Dave Jones left foot was something else as well! 
Plus going 1-0 up against Portsmouth in our first premier league game back at pride park before Andy Todd’s diving header to rescue a point. 
 

It was very very good before it turned sour but the reason people put less emphasis on the football played by that team (because it was quite dull quite a bit of the time) is because the players were not a promotion squad and yet he had them up there punching well above. 

I don’t remember it being dull, personally. The only times I felt really let down that season were Birmingham and Palace away where we threatened to self-destruct. But even after the lows of Palace away, you still felt the team had something left to give whereas our hopes under Burley quickly faded with the form and fitness of Rasiak and Idiakez.

Like I said, the way Billy set us up always kept us in a game. We always believed we could win, whether it was through either a piece of Barnes’ skill or Howard being in the right place at the right time.

But again I believe there are different ways to entertain and different ways to win, so even though a lot of people complained, I saw the good side. Obviously West Brom, Wolves and Southampton were the footballing sides of the division, but we went on a thrill ride of our own that season.

We did outplay teams, but we could also snatch wins from tense games. Think Sheffield Wednesday at home and Barnsley at home, for instance. We were never down and out.

There was something deeply satisfying and enjoyable about going to Southampton in the middle of winter for example and soaking up so much pressure and knowing we could still win. And we did.

[BaaLocks]

9 hours ago, Nuwtfly said:

It was the constant veering for other jobs that annoyed me. 

I remember him denying the reports that he was going to Celtic in an interview. 

There were no reports 🤣

That's coz it was Rangers he was claiming to be being tapped up for (tbf that's what I remember but I can't vouch I am completely correct 🙂). What is amusing is that Billy is still at it, just last year he 'offered his services' to manage Rangers and has given a litany of interviews down the years about how he was approached (at an undefined time) to be Rangers boss but declined. He really is a very strange person in many ways.

As for his time at Derby, many are right in that the winning was fun and it was often late and close. Memories are strongly tainted by what happened after but even at the time I clearly remember it being a bit 'grind it out'. Ultimately, you'll get forgiven if you are winning but it was far from the most flowing of football, lots of hunkering down on 1-0 leads and those late wins, great though they were, came from us having stifled much of the match to that point. 

Ultimately, it worked - and if Warne does the same he will be remembered as the guy who got us promoted. If he doesn't he'll end up pretty mid-table on the OP list in the memories.

 

[Jourdan]

10 hours ago, deanoakaram4life said:

Gonna get pelters for this but Warne’s football is the worst I have seen in my time watching Derby.

@BaaLocks there’s one for you.

[Nuwtfly]

9 hours ago, Leicester Ram said:

 

If you’re going to hold the quality of opposition against him, then you have to admit he also doesn’t have the same quality of players at his disposal that managers in the league above had

If you *really* want to play that game, Paul Warne has a better win percentage at Derby than Brian Clough and Dave Mackay

And he doesn’t have Roy McFarland and Kevin Hector available for selection 🤷🏻‍♂️

Say what you want about your ideal style of play but your argument here doesn’t hold water, the same way me pointing out he has a better win % than Brian Clough doesn’t hold water either

I will admit that he doesn't have the same quality of players at his disposal, but beyond that I obviously can't accept any of your points (not that I think I'm supposed to). 

I think my argument that Warne's football is especially unenjoyable though ultimately does hold water because this is a thread about comparing enjoyment levels, not win percentages or even success over 90 mins. 

In my view this whole debate is centred around the style of play and how much you enjoy watching it. The football Warne has got us playing is as worse than almost every manager on the original list, bar one or two, and I think that it at times feels even worse because the standard of opposition is ultimately poorer. 

[Alan Ramage 4 EVA]

11 hours ago, deanoakaram4life said:

It’s all opinions re enjoyment. I’ve always enjoyed a direct game where the ball moves from defence to attack quickly. I actually enjoyed a few of the Gary Rowett games. I distinctly remember us turning Fulham over on a Tuesday night where Dave Nugent was on fire.

 

Gonna get pelters for this but Warne’s football is the worst I have seen in my time watching Derby. We are in the lowest position we have ever been since I have started watching the Rams, and there is such an absence of any football know how on the pitch. No midfield, no game plan, just get it out wide and cross until the ball somehow lands at the strikers feet. 

I was in the Victoria after the last game someone said "P.W has taken all the football out of a football match " LOL

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

10 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

These enjoyment charts see a rather strong correlation with success.

Apart from Warne, which tells a story about how dreadful our performances really are.

[BaaLocks]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

@BaaLocks there’s one for you.

OK - fair point. Either a dopey comment or that person wasn't around watching Peter Taylor's 1980s side, Paul Jewell's car crash or possibly a couple of others sides since (Pearson springs to mind).

Edited January 29 by BaaLocks

[DavesaRam]

Suffice to say that on Saturday I was pining for the days of John Newman’s Derby County, it was that bad. I met John once, and that was way too many times, as he had the effect of sucking out the will to live of anybody who was unfortunate enough to get too near to him. But the football, although embodying Newman’s personality vacuum, was better than this troach.

[Ram-Alf]

12 hours ago, plymouthram said:

I'm glad you named Dave Mackay, after Brian Clough the football was just as good with him in charge, plus we won the title for our 2nd and last time.

A great player...imo and I don't chuck "great" around freely, Way back mid to late 90s I'm walking down St Peters Street with the then wife and a group of men stop us, They ask where was a good place for a few beers...somewhere quiet one man asked, I looked at the man and holy fcuk it was Dave Mackay, I sent them to O'Neil's in St Peters Churchyard ☺️  

[BaaLocks]

25 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

Suffice to say that on Saturday I was pining for the days of John Newman’s Derby County, it was that bad. I met John once, and that was way too many times, as he had the effect of sucking out the will to live of anybody who was unfortunate enough to get too near to him. But the football, although embodying Newman’s personality vacuum, was better than this troach.

Well thanks a million for bringing that memory back - that's Monday ruined.

[Mucker1884]

1/  David Lowe

=2/  Meh

[BaaLocks]

1 hour ago, Ram-Alf said:

A great player...imo and I don't chuck "great" around freely, Way back mid to late 90s I'm walking down St Peters Street with the then wife and a group of men stop us, They ask where was a good place for a few beers...somewhere quiet one man asked, I looked at the man and holy fcuk it was Dave Mackay, I sent them to O'Neil's in St Peters Churchyard ☺️  

[Anag Ram]

Forget us muppets in the crowd, I didn’t think the players looked like they were loving life on Saturday. 

Sometimes you really get the feeling they’re up for it but on Saturday even Collins looked subdued. They looked almost sullen as if they’d been told there was no pay rise this year.

I know the starting formation wasn’t great but the players had the opportunity to make it work with a bit of proactive decision making.

Had the four forwards come back to receive the ball and drive forward, we might have seen more entertaining football.

Standing in a line on the half way line just encouraged hoof ball which Davies lapped up.

All I’m saying is that the players take half the blame for poor football (at times).

I’d also add that I loved the goals we scored on Saturday.
 

[RoyMac5]

23 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Forget us muppets in the crowd, I didn’t think the players looked like they were loving life on Saturday. 

Sometimes you really get the feeling they’re up for it but on Saturday even Collins looked subdued. They looked almost sullen as if they’d been told there was no pay rise this year.

I know the starting formation wasn’t great but the players had the opportunity to make it work with a bit of proactive decision making.

Had the four forwards come back to receive the ball and drive forward, we might have seen more entertaining football.

Standing in a line on the half way line just encouraged hoof ball which Davies lapped up.

All I’m saying is that the players take half the blame for poor football (at times).

I’d also add that I loved the goals we scored on Saturday.
 

 

This keep getting brought up. But we all have been made aware by Hourihane (and so no doubt it applies to all the squad), that if you want to play you play how Warne wants. So if there's any lack of pro-activity I think that players being aware of the 'toe the party line' mantra must over rule that. If the players aren't happy with how they're being asked to play it's no surprise it becomes evident in their performances.

Perhaps the players ought to be asked which manager they enjoy playing for?! 😄

Edited January 29 by RoyMac5

[RodleyRam]

I've been thinking for a while that the football under Warne reminds me of the BD promotion season. Not what I would class as pleasing on the eye but mostly effective with some entertaining moments. It's not even remotely in the realms of Paul Jewell or Nigel Pearson for me. I don't think the negativity around Warne is justified but I do wish we set up to let our technical superiority shine through more than it does.

For me the highest quality and most entertaining I've seen is as follows:

1. Mac1

2. Bald Eagle

3. Uncle George

[TINMANTED]

1. Brian Clough

2. Dave Mackay

3. Arthur Cox

4. Jim Smith

5. George Burley

6 Steve Mac 

all the rest are wiped from memory other than silly billy,jimmy jewel,and lampard,although i enjoyed lampards season,and he was unlucky losing mount,i do ultimately blame him for the position we are now in,picking that team at wembley