Finance

[FlyBritishMidland]

14 hours ago, ram59 said:

Unfortunately, the way to get promoted to the premier is to generally throw money at it. We are the only club who failed and got punished. Time and time again clubs have been promoted by throwing money at it and have avoided punishment, the list is very long, Villa, Fester, Bournemouth twice, QPR, Watford, etc.

Clubs doing it the 'right way' are few and far between.

And you could say that the closest we came was by doing it the right way.  We built slow and steady under GSE and let Clough build a team - OK, partly their own doing in their first 2 windows.  Sometimes you need to move slowly to move quickly.  I think it’s better to have steady, focused and controlled growth than trying to throw money at it and hope for quick results.

[Crewton]

10 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

A well run club can spend a lot of money 

I’ve not said for a moment DC lacks ambition, why put those words into my mouth? What I have said elsewhere is that he won’t be injecting significant funds into the club. This is nothing to do with the club being prudent and nothing to do with lack of ambition.  It’s to do with him being prudent with the family wealth. 

Well, I thought it was a fair extrapolation after you'd said "Why don’t we want both? Spectacularly wealthy owners who run the club responsibly but with ambition?" in response to a post bemoaning fans wanting an owner to "throw money at it". If you didn't intend to infer that Clowes lacked ambition, I'm pleased to hear that. 

There are though very few ways of  owners pumping significant sums of money into the team from their own funds in the Championship unless they're aiming to breach annual FFP limits and give the EFL the finger from the relative safety of the Premier League.

Edited May 26 by Crewton

[Gerry Daly]

7 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

And you could say that the closest we came was by doing it the right way.  We built slow and steady under GSE and let Clough build a team - OK, partly their own doing in their first 2 windows.  Sometimes you need to move slowly to move quickly.  I think it’s better to have steady, focused and controlled growth than trying to throw money at it and hope for quick results.

I agree except for the fact that in recent years we have seen the emergence of recruitment departments at all of the bigger clubs using IT to keep tabs on all emerging talent anywhere and looking to hoover it up. So clubs that develop slowly are always at risk of 1 step forward two steps back

[Reggie Greenwood]

33 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

And you could say that the closest we came was by doing it the right way.  We built slow and steady under GSE and let Clough build a team - OK, partly their own doing in their first 2 windows.  Sometimes you need to move slowly to move quickly.  I think it’s better to have steady, focused and controlled growth than trying to throw money at it and hope for quick results.

We never got remotely close to promotion under Nigel ? 

[Caerphilly Ram]

8 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

We never got remotely close to promotion under Nigel ? 

I think the point being made was about the GSE ownership, not Clough. As in GSE ran the club prudently for a period with Clough in charge, slowly building a side with some shrewd recruiting north of the border and the odd Barker type fee, then Steve McClaren took the bulk of that side and turned it into a top team in the champ who narrowly missed out on promotion against qpr at Wembley in 2014.
GSE’s slower burn model for running the club proved almost as successful as throwing loads of cash at it did under Morris.
Ultimately neither worked so it’ll be interesting to see how we approach things now. 

[FlyBritishMidland]

41 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I think the point being made was about the GSE ownership, not Clough. As in GSE ran the club prudently for a period with Clough in charge, slowly building a side with some shrewd recruiting north of the border and the odd Barker type fee, then Steve McClaren took the bulk of that side and turned it into a top team in the champ who narrowly missed out on promotion against qpr at Wembley in 2014.
GSE’s slower burn model for running the club proved almost as successful as throwing loads of cash at it did under Morris.
Ultimately neither worked so it’ll be interesting to see how we approach things now. 

Couldn’t have put it better myself 👍.  It just needed a manager with a more expressive approach

[islandram]

On 25/05/2024 at 08:50, Simmo’s left foot said:

Yes indeed. Amazingly there are still people here who think the way forward is for owners to throw money at it. Incredible.

yes and the reason football at grass roots is dying, is because of money and mainly foreign investors and sky/bt.

[FlyBritishMidland]

1 hour ago, Gerry Daly said:

I agree except for the fact that in recent years we have seen the emergence of recruitment departments at all of the bigger clubs using IT to keep tabs on all emerging talent anywhere and looking to hoover it up. So clubs that develop slowly are always at risk of 1 step forward two steps back

That’s a fair point.  And I think you need a long-term strategy for recruiting and developing your own squad.  Like having a succession plan.  You know you have a top player, you also know that he’ll move on for a big fee in 3 years time, for arguments sake.  And that’s both for the benefit of the club and the player.  The trick is in either having your own product who can fill the gap or your scouting network has identified those options.

A long-term plan is essential to try and avoid the 2 steps back.

[Gerry Daly]

Yes of course but my point was that the Brighton's in particular try to get the players before they can be developed and sold on for good fees then loan them out. Anyway, even so its still possible to join the party by building a team that has a mixture of players but in particular some good loans. Having done that though you are faced with the problem of recruiting most of a new team that can then survive in the Premiership. Its harder to stay there than get there.   

[angieram]

2 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I think the point being made was about the GSE ownership, not Clough. As in GSE ran the club prudently for a period with Clough in charge, slowly building a side with some shrewd recruiting north of the border and the odd Barker type fee, then Steve McClaren took the bulk of that side and turned it into a top team in the champ who narrowly missed out on promotion against qpr at Wembley in 2014.
GSE’s slower burn model for running the club proved almost as successful as throwing loads of cash at it did under Morris.
Ultimately neither worked so it’ll be interesting to see how we approach things now. 

Who did that "shrewd recruiting"? 

Because GSE were very hands-off, who was scouting and signing those players? 

[Gerry Daly]

1 minute ago, angieram said:

Who did that "shrewd recruiting"? 

Because GSE were very hands-off, who was scouting and signing those players? 

Clough. He spent our money very wisely and very carefully. He was a great manager for us and it was such a shame how he was treated. If he had been allowed to continue and given the backing Mclaren was we would not be in the position we are now

[Caerphilly Ram]

7 minutes ago, angieram said:

Who did that "shrewd recruiting"? 

Because GSE were very hands-off, who was scouting and signing those players? 

Sam Rush and Tom Ince’s mum? 

I was just adding the context as I understood it from@FlyBritishMidland’s point about ownership, in that we came close to promotion under GSE without throwing lots of money around.

[angieram]

5 minutes ago, Gerry Daly said:

Clough. He spent our money very wisely and very carefully. He was a great manager for us and it was such a shame how he was treated. If he had been allowed to continue and given the backing Mclaren was we would not be in the position we are now

He did his own scouting? Wasn't it his brother? 

I've always wondered why if he's so marvellous he takes an absolute age to take a team up? 

I don't think he's got that managerial flair to get a team into the prem? He's a bit of a steady Eddie, imo.

Watched Mansfield a bit last season. people thinking Warne was a hard watch want to take in a few of their games! 

[Returning ram]

1 hour ago, islandram said:

yes and the reason football at grass roots is dying, is because of money and mainly foreign investors and sky/bt.

Sorry but that isn't true, grass roots football is thriving. Everything about it has improved over the past 10 years, the facilities, the format, the coaching, the availability to more getting involved, the girls side of it. 
 

Only thing that I can think off, is the weather, we need more facilities like the new Derby hub as the climate changes. Without investment from the likes of sky, that would never have happened.

[Carl Sagan]

In some ways, the quest for the Premier League is like scaling Mount Everest. In the end, you just have to go for it and make your move to reach the summit. The technique being advocated by many, with a lot of merit is to establish a strong base camp to give you the best chance you can of ultimately scaling the mountain. But the longer you work on your base camp, the more you risk other people coming past you and simply leaving you behind while they head straight on up the South Col. And nicking some of your better tents and Sherpas while they go. Clough built the base camp and, with the benefit of all that good preparation, McClaren breezed into camp and took the climbers with him on an attempt for the summit. Most observers would say the best team not to reach the summit and gain promotion.

For some who don't spend so long preparing the base camp, they'll be lucky with the weather and go straight up the mountain all the way to the very top. Others will run into a storm for which they're badly prepared, and will meet with disaster. This coming season I want us to at least flirt with a trip higher up the slopes to develop more of a feel of the rarefied aid, and if there's a break in the clouds it might even be worth trying to go all the way. Even if it's more likely we end up settling a little lower down while we consolidate for the final push the season after.

[1of4]

 

After what the club have been through over the last few years. I'm sure most of us realise that we won't be able to compete financially with many of the clubs in the Championship. Even some of the lower mid-table clubs appear to have owners, prepared to spend money they may or not have, in their hope of reaching the Premiership promised land.

I understand how Mr Clowes wants to run the financial side of the club and the money that will be available for the club to use in the transfer market.

This is no disrespect to Mr Clowes, I can never thank him enough for saving our club. He has stated, that he won't be pumping untold millions into the club. 

So until a new investor, owner comes in, I think the club will be reliant on the clubs recruitment team to find the quality of player we'll need to survive and ultimately thrive in this division.

I never want to experience what we had to endure over the past few years.

If this means a number of years of mid-table finishes, of finding and developing players before selling them on for a profit, then so be it.

[CapeTownRams]

One of the biggest differences in recent years- and something we often tend to forget- is the significant contribution from the Academy.

When u think at the Carlisle game we had four of the squad that played having come directly from the academy. That’s a significant saving on transfer fees etc…

If it hadn’t been for the administration fiasco (allowing the likes of Buchanan to do a runner)then the contribution would have been even more significant. Then to that add the fees we got for Bogle, Lowe…

I am intrigued to see how keen PW is ,going forward, to supporting the playing of the better academy players rather than buying people in…

[FlyBritishMidland]

10 minutes ago, angieram said:

He did his own scouting? Wasn't it his brother? 

I've always wondered why if he's so marvellous he takes an absolute age to take a team up? 

I don't think he's got that managerial flair to get a team into the prem? He's a bit of a steady Eddie, imo.

Watched Mansfield a bit last season. people thinking Warne was a hard watch want to take in a few of their games! 

You’re right about him being a steady Eddie.  I think Clough’s strengths lie in him building a culture and scouting and recruiting good players at bargain prices.  Tactically he gets a bit scared at crucial times.  That’s why it needed a Mac to come in, take the shackles off and maybe give them a bit more belief and confidence.

In the modern era, I think Clough would make a great Director of Football.

[angieram]

8 minutes ago, Returning ram said:

Sorry but that isn't true, grass roots football is thriving. Everything about it has improved over the past 10 years, the facilities, the format, the coaching, the availability to more getting involved, the girls side of it. 
 

Only thing that I can think off, is the weather, we need more facilities like the new Derby hub as the climate changes. Without investment from the likes of sky, that would never have happened.

Which clubs do you go to, where the facilities have improved? My local teams have rubbish facilities that haven't been updated since the 1960s/70s. I see little evidence of money in Derbyshire and they are now being forced to compete with richer clubs who are full-time. It's a wonder they survive at all. 

Maybe clubs in more affluent areas? I don't know.

[Foreveram]

3 minutes ago, angieram said:

He did his own scouting? Wasn't it his brother? 

I've always wondered why if he's so marvellous he takes an absolute age to take a team up? 

I don't think he's got that managerial flair to get a team into the prem? He's a bit of a steady Eddie, imo.

Watched Mansfield a bit last season. people thinking Warne was a hard watch want to take in a few of their games! 

He was at Derby far longer than most managers, while most supporters wanted him to succeed because of who he was, it just wasn’t working, with attendances falling rapidly.

 We were in 14th place when he was sacked.

He took 4 attempts to get Mansfield promoted from league two despite being well backed by the Chairman.