Safe Standing Is Coming to Pride Park

[cannable]

On 01/12/2023 at 15:49, DJAY said:

What is the benefit of rail seats over what is being installed here? I personally can't see any benefit of one over the other, but there must be otherwise other clubs introducing safe standing would have done the same? Is there some UEFA guidelines that the rail seats pass that clubs in European competition must adhere to or something?

I think rail seats increase capacity, because when they’re up they’re no longer a seat, it’s just space.

Rail seats are to meet regulations in certain competitions in which it must be an all seater stadia - so you’d unlock the seat and it becomes a seat again.

Whereas with what we’ve done, you still have a designated seat, you’re just allowed to stand now.

[Mucker1884]

53 minutes ago, cannable said:

I think rail seats increase capacity, because when they’re up they’re no longer a seat, it’s just space.

 

They "CAN", but it's not a given. 
It's not a case of cramming as many folk shoulder to shoulder in each row à la ye olde terrace!
There's a lot of criteria to meet (or surpass) to enable any standing ratio over and above the current 1 (standing):1 (seat).

Seat pitch and width plays a part of course. As does the step of the concrete floor, if you are looking to double up on standing between each row of seats/safety barriers.  (This could be two behind one, or one behind two, as they have in "The Yellow Wall" at B. Dortmund.)

Also the number of toilets and associated facilities. 

And of course, dimensions, numbers and square footage of concourses, and specifically stairways/vomitoria/exit doors etc.
It's not all about the physical space available.

 

I believe in some instances... might be Dortmund again, but don't quote me... your match ticket not only gets you into the stadium, but also through the direct access from the concourse to your specific block, so overcrowding is not even possible.  (A bit like a 400 space car park showing 87 spaces remaining type thing, I guess!)  Stops folk sneaking from their assigned position in K block into B block, as that's where the chanting is loudest!  👀 

[DavesaRam]

6 hours ago, sage said:

And massively unsafe stadium design, ie one central tunnel

Yes, but if the police and stewards hadn’t sent thousands too many people into an enclosed area, the central tunnel wouldn’t gave such an issue.

[sage]

Just now, DavesaRam said:

Yes, but if the police and stewards hadn’t sent thousands too many people into an enclosed area, the central tunnel wouldn’t gave such an issue.

I've been with Derby before and had to fight to get to one side.

Around a third of the people who died, died in that tunnel. 

Sheff Wednesday got away virtually scot free from all this.

Imagine if the Arctic Monkeys were playing at Derby Arena and 90 got killed in a crush. No one would be blaming the band or the fans. The council would be the ones in the poo.

 

[alexxxxx]

 

20 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

They "CAN", but it's not a given. 
It's not a case of cramming as many folk shoulder to shoulder in each row à la ye olde terrace!
There's a lot of criteria to meet (or surpass) to enable any standing ratio over and above the current 1 (standing):1 (seat).

Seat pitch and width plays a part of course. As does the step of the concrete floor, if you are looking to double up on standing between each row of seats/safety barriers.  (This could be two behind one, or one behind two, as they have in "The Yellow Wall" at B. Dortmund.)

Also the number of toilets and associated facilities. 

And of course, dimensions, numbers and square footage of concourses, and specifically stairways/vomitoria/exit doors etc.
It's not all about the physical space available.

 

I believe in some instances... might be Dortmund again, but don't quote me... your match ticket not only gets you into the stadium, but also through the direct access from the concourse to your specific block, so overcrowding is not even possible.  (A bit like a 400 space car park showing 87 spaces remaining type thing, I guess!)  Stops folk sneaking from their assigned position in K block into B block, as that's where the chanting is loudest!  👀 

I think with safe standing you're still assigned a 'seat' so to speak. I do wonder how it's regulated in the stadia that have it in england. Do people actually take the seat/row they're allocated or do they chance it in the lively areas? That's the largest risk for me...

 

 

[angieram]

16 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

 

I think with safe standing you're still assigned a 'seat' so to speak. I do wonder how it's regulated in the stadia that have it in england. Do people actually take the seat/row they're allocated or do they chance it in the lively areas? That's the largest risk for me...

 

 

If they are selfish, they do that now! 

Can't see that ever changing.

 

[Archied]

3 hours ago, angieram said:

If they are selfish, they do that now! 

Can't see that ever changing.

 

I’ve for a long time believed that it would be a good thing to have an area or areas of grounds that sell tickets just for the area and sit where you want when you get there , it really would allow people to go on the spur of the moment with friends and family , there’s times my daughter and partner would come along to a game but obviously we wouldn’t be able to sit together, Sadly I suppose the threat of bad behaviour and tracking tickets stops this , shame really🤷🏻‍♂️

[Simmo’s left foot]

What about people standing in the aisles that now routinely happens in the south stand? They have done nothing about this, nor have they done anything about the foul language and abusive chanting either! Away matches are now no go areas for some fans because of the standing and the behavior reported. 

Seems to me that football is going backwards, and both clubs and authorities are just letting it happen.

I hope the club advertises the lower tier of the away corner as seating and actually enforce it, for the benefit of those away fans who don't want to or cannot stand.

Plus what about those in the east stand near the away fans who think its their right to stand and block others view? 

[Mucker1884]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

I’ve for a long time believed that it would be a good thing to have an area or areas of grounds that sell tickets just for the area and sit where you want when you get there , it really would allow people to go on the spur of the moment with friends and family , there’s times my daughter and partner would come along to a game but obviously we wouldn’t be able to sit together, Sadly I suppose the threat of bad behaviour and tracking tickets stops this , shame really🤷🏻‍♂️

Slightly off at a tangent, but pertinent to your post...

As a season ticket holder, I have in the past... and on a number of occasions... swapped my ST seat for another, along with a number of adjacent available seats, for that very purpose (There are no spare seats around where my ST is located).
I've done this on a number of Boxing Days, and the odd "glory game"!  I've even managed a batch of 8 seats together for a Forest match (4 seats in front of another 4... better than a row of 8!)

 

*1  Admittedly, none of the above is based on "spur of the moment", as I had to get in there early for the bigger groups.
*2  Admittedly, I'm a local, so it was easy to do at the ticket office.  No idea how much faff it would be to do it online (or even if it was doable)?

*3  Admittedly, not all long term ST holders are happy to move out of their comfort zone and swap seats, or even stands... even for those we hold near and dear! 👀
*4  Admittedly, that big batch of 8 adjacent seats were in the North Stand... but they were fairly central behind the goal, upper tier (my preference), and we won 5-0, so what's not to like!  🤣🐏

 

[ossieram]

17 hours ago, Simmo’s left foot said:

have they done anything about the foul language and abusive chanting either!

You reckon football has gone backwards,  were you around in the 70's and 80's?

The bad language and abusive chanting was on another level back then. 

[Gerry Daly]

I think those people who want to sit down and/or want a more genteel experience with no foul language etc can relocate to the North stand surely and get the same view. I know people will say 'but we have been sitting here for 15 seasons and why should we move' but I've moved several times now since PP was opened, 2 different season tickets in west stand, lower then upper, 3 different season tickets in East stand and half a season in what is now the Gordon Guthrie. Its no big deal moving 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Gerry Daly

[ImARam2]

6 minutes ago, ossieram said:

You reckon football has gone backwards,  were you around in the 70's and 80's?

The bad language and abusive chanting was on another level back then.

Having followed Derby County for 60+ years, bad language on the terraces has always been prevalent, however, I can't recall 10,000+ fans singing and chanting vile and abusive comments about ex-players, the EFL or club directors.

In no way am I a prude, having spent my younger days as an apprentice in a Derby factory where some of the women could and would give as good as the men, and twice as scary, but quite honestly, in my mind, the language of the terraces has become abhorrent.

[Simmo’s left foot]

42 minutes ago, ossieram said:

You reckon football has gone backwards,  were you around in the 70's and 80's?

The bad language and abusive chanting was on another level back then. 

Yes, I was, I stood or sat in every stand and terrace at the Baseball Ground, from 1974 onwards 🙂 Eventually I was a popside regular right to the end of the BBG.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Simmo’s left foot

[angieram]

I recall swearing on the terraces and a lot of aggressive behaviour towards opposition fans but none of the chants I recall contained references to players' anatomies!

It all seems to have gone a bit puerile and I most dislike the aggressive behaviour of Derby fans to other Derby fans. 

Of course, there was racist and homophobic chanting back then, too. Nowadays these are rightly totally unacceptable but there are less ways to challenge the other unacceptable behaviour as it is happening. 

A clip round the ear, your arm up your back, being dragged out by your collar and a night in the cells maybe taught a few swift sharp lessons to those who went too far. 

Nowadays the stewards stand back an film you and you might just hear something weeks later if they can work out who you are! 

[Mucker1884]

I still give the same hand gestures towards the away fans as I did back in the late '70's... but nowadays that's usually down to arthritis and the occasional bout of pins and needles.

 

 

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, Gerry Daly said:

I think those people who want to sit down and/or want a more genteel experience with no foul language etc can relocate to the North stand surely and get the same view. I know people will say 'but we have been sitting here for 15 seasons and why should we move' but I've moved several times now since PP was opened, 2 different season tickets in west stand, lower then upper, 3 different season tickets in East stand and half a season in what is now the Gordon Guthrie. Its no big deal moving 

I moved from the back of the SE corner, just a dividing net from the away fans, to the NE corner, when I started dragging my then 7 year old grandson screaming and kicking to see his grandads beloved Rams!  (Free u12 ST!)

No way was that SE corner appropriate for him, although I was still up for it.
The NE corner was staid, almost serene, and not at all what I was used to!  It took a good few seasons before I accepted my fate!   #ididitforhim.

11 years later... still in the same NE Corner seat (18yo Grandson has totally lost interest), but it's no longer staid, nor serene... it's just nice!  Comfy.  Like a pair of old slippers.

We should all have the choice... and the right... to be comfortable with where we sit.

 

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, ImARam2 said:

Having followed Derby County for 60+ years, bad language on the terraces has always been prevalent, however, I can't recall 10,000+ fans singing and chanting vile and abusive comments about ex-players, the EFL or club directors.

In no way am I a prude, having spent my younger days as an apprentice in a Derby factory where some of the women could and would give as good as the men, and twice as scary, but quite honestly, in my mind, the language of the terraces has become abhorrent.

But can’t you remember vile racist and homophobic language back in the day that is nowhere near as prevalent now?
 

My view is, taking into account selective memory, the songs and chants have changed and, at times are still extremely distasteful but, on the whole isn’t quite as bad as it used to be.

It may feel worse now but perhaps that is partly down to me being a little more oblivious to the bad language when I was a teenager on the popside compared to now being in my more senior years thinking I’m glad my grandson isn’t here to hear this.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Tamworthram

[Mucker1884]

25 minutes ago, angieram said:

I recall swearing on the terraces and a lot of aggressive behaviour towards opposition fans but none of the chants I recall contained references to players' anatomies!

 

Not players admittedly, but that lass that used to wander around the BBG pitch perimeter carrying a bag of takings to the office would often have her anatomies mentioned!   👀

#forthelads

[angieram]

8 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Not players admittedly, but that lass that used to wander around the BBG pitch perimeter carrying a bag of takings to the office would often have her anatomies mentioned!   👀

#forthelads

We still get that at away games.

It seems sexism isn't on the list of unacceptable behaviours yet. 

[Gerry Daly]

I started going in 1970 and have no doubt whatsoever that behaviour and language was far worse in the 1970's and 80's than it is now. However it improved tremendously though the 90's and up to maybe 10 years or so ago. I think though it has got worse in recent years and is continuing to do so. I think the hooliganism that we exported to the continent is now being exported back to us and the latest generation of young lads appear willing to get involved. As I say, still nothing like the days when fans were herded like cattle along Osmaston Road - us on one side, away fans on the other - by Police on horses and with dogs. When there were pitched battles in the ground and outside(as opposed to the odd skirmish that you get now) when goals for the away team and their celebrations would be met immediately with the chant 'Your going to get your f****** heads kicked in'