Derby County vs Stevenage (A) Match Thread

[brady1993]

27 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

It is the players though Roy. For example if Steve McLaren came in today and tried to set us up to play his 13/14 style how many players would you keep in that squad. I’d probably say cashin and bird sibley maybe. 

It wouldn't be exactly the same tactically but 

                Wildsmith 

Nyambe Nelson Cashin Forsyth 

                     Fornah

               Bird            Sibley

NML            Waghorn    Barkhuizen

Would give McClaren something to work with, with the right coaching.

And there in lies the rub: coaching We've got enough quality at our disposal for this division, we just need to name a balanced side that has tactical coherence and have it coached well enough.

 

 

 

[Barney1991]

3 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

It wouldn't be exactly the same tactically but 

                Wildsmith 

Nyambe Nelson Cashin Forsyth 

                     Fornah

               Bird            Sibley

NML            Waghorn    Barkhuizen

Would give McClaren something to work with, with the right coaching.

And there in lies the rub: coaching We've got enough quality at our disposal for this division, we just need to name a balanced side that has tactical coherence and have it coached well enough.

 

 

 

Just don’t see it. No one in that midfield is hitting double figures. Waghorn is not of the hold up and intelligent style of Martin that McLaren heavily relied on. Don’t see Nelson playing it out from the back maybe cashin at a push with the right coaching 

[Carnero]

2 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

No one in that midfield is hitting double figures.

Neither was Bryson until McClaren arrived.

[Barney1991]

3 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Neither was Bryson until McClaren arrived.

Very true 

[brady1993]

6 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

Just don’t see it. No one in that midfield is hitting double figures. Waghorn is not of the hold up and intelligent style of Martin that McLaren heavily relied on. Don’t see Nelson playing it out from the back maybe cashin at a push with the right coaching 

It's also league 1 and a bad league 1 at that we don't need as good as we had then. 

Sibley hits double figures comfortably if played for a whole season. Waghorn's hold up play is good enough and he has an understanding with Sibley (Cocu specifically paired the two when Sibley first broke the same). We've got ample ability in midfield and the playing out from the back will be good enough with coaching.

McClaren also likely makes adjustments tactically to accommodate it not being the exact same set of players. For example you likely don't want to play with overlapping wingbacks and narrow wide forwards, its probably better to let nml and barkhuizen cheat a little and stay wide.

It'd not be perfect but it'd have tactical coherence that'd let McClaren play to his strengths in coaching.

[brady1993]

7 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Neither was Bryson until McClaren arrived.

Before McClaren 

Bryson - Decent box to box player who'd mostly played in a two man midfield 

Martin - 3rd choice at Norwich, mostly played as a 10 off another striker.

Russell - Primarily a striker who'd played in a 2

And we could go on....

[hintonsboots]

39 minutes ago, eddielewis said:

Could you imagine by divine miracle Rotherham taking Warne back after sacking Matt Taylor

Yes.

[eddielewis]

Just now, hintonsboots said:

Yes.

[NottsRam77]

2 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Players can only sign pre-contract deals in January with clubs outside of England, so I don’t know how likely it is that Barkhuizen would have signed with anyone in that particular circumstance. 
Also, he may have chosen not to renew his contract, it’s a two way street, it doesn’t mean he wasn’t offered a new deal as they didn’t rate him, it could easily have been a mutual parting of the ways, both parties trying something different. 

I agree with some of your views at times but think you’re doing Barkhuizen a disservice, he’s a decent enough footballer at this level. 

iv seen very little to suggest hes anything but a mid table league one player

last weekend he was shocking, hes a 1 in 4 player at league one level 

thats not good enough 

Championship Preston would have been offering way better wages than us and our strict efl plan .. unless he had a burning desire to play league one football lol

[RoyMac5]

19 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

Yes.

What have you been dropping?

But do you think it likely? 😉

[May Contain Nuts]

16 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

iv seen very little to suggest hes anything but a mid table league one player

last weekend he was shocking, hes a 1 in 4 player at league one level 

thats not good enough 

Championship Preston would have been offering way better wages than us and our strict efl plan .. unless he had a burning desire to play league one football lol

 

Bad managers often make good players look like average players and average players look like terrible players. Good managers often make even average players look good (even if it's for a short burst).

Sometimes a player is a clear standout in terms of class (McGoldrick) and can almost help drag other players up to their level, but that's rare.

Continued exposure to poor management has a habit of convincing onlookers that the players are actually as bad as they look and incapable of being better.

It doesn't even have to be long term exposure - remember watching Chris Martin play under Pearson? It's like Pearson's system was specifically designed to make Martin look bad so he could justify replacing him.

I'm not suggesting Warne is doing the same thing intentionally as I don't think that's in his character, just as a by-product of his limitations.

There's no way Barkhuizen is anywhere near as bad as you make out he is, IMO.

I could be wrong, but If you look back to Chris Wilder's time at Sheffield Utd I have a feeling you could accuse him of having taken on a number of players who'd been 'rejected' by Championship clubs in a similar fashion to Barkhuizen, but he made those rejects into a team where everyone played to their maximum and they reaped the benefits.

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Just for reference @Archied this is a full stop . 

You the forum proof reader or just a bit butt hurt that your absolutely stupid post regards how warne should just up and walk away from a contract we offered him that allows him to earn a living and provide for his family because us derby fans come first was pulled for the guff that it was ?

that post was selfish child like guff FULL STOP 😂

[Walkley Ram]

Currently watching Wednesday Vs Rotherham, and the difference between the worst two championship team and us is stark. When I watch the prem, I ignore the quality of football as it might as well be a different planet. But even these two teams, bottom of the championship are playing what looks like brilliant football.

We have a long, long way to go.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, oodledoodle said:

Currently watching Wednesday Vs Rotherham, and the difference between the worst two championship team and us is stark. When I watch the prem, I ignore the quality of football as it might as well be a different planet. But even these two teams, bottom of the championship are playing what looks like brilliant football.

We have a long, long way to go.

Street-fighting! 😄

 

 

[NottsRam77]

3 hours ago, Kokosnuss said:

 

Bad managers often make good players look like average players and average players look like terrible players. Good managers often make even average players look good (even if it's for a short burst).

Sometimes a player is a clear standout in terms of class (McGoldrick) and can almost help drag other players up to their level, but that's rare.

Continued exposure to poor management has a habit of convincing onlookers that the players are actually as bad as they look and incapable of being better.

It doesn't even have to be long term exposure - remember watching Chris Martin play under Pearson? It's like Pearson's system was specifically designed to make Martin look bad so he could justify replacing him.

I'm not suggesting Warne is doing the same thing intentionally as I don't think that's in his character, just as a by-product of his limitations.

There's no way Barkhuizen is anywhere near as bad as you make out he is, IMO.

I could be wrong, but If you look back to Chris Wilder's time at Sheffield Utd I have a feeling you could accuse him of having taken on a number of players who'd been 'rejected' by Championship clubs in a similar fashion to Barkhuizen, but he made those rejects into a team where everyone played to their maximum and they reaped the benefits.

 

Fair post 👍

[brady1993]

9 hours ago, Kokosnuss said:

 

That sad fact is you could learn everything you ever needed to know about Paul Warne just by listening to the Moment of Truth podcast, both good and bad.

I've seen people note that he said at his first press conference or interview something along the lines of "if you have good footballer, you try to play good football"; we have good footballers, yet we're no longer trying to play good football. Not in any game where the opposition isn't considerably weaker than us anyway, and even then not always.

I don't blame Clowes for appointing him because I assume that in interviews for the job he'll have said similar things, stated a willingness to adapt, convinced his new employer that he's capable of growth as a manager whilst delivering a team which capable of achieving promotion with his time at Rotherham clearly evidencing the latter.

In reality it's been 13 months and he's not showing enough (if any) signs of doing either of those things, all the while appearing rattled every time he's questions. When the facade drops, what's left?

I do wonder how much of that good footballer comment more meant that we'd play good football because of the players as opposed to tactically fitting those players. 

Maybe it's hyper critical in hindsight but the comment lacked depth as to how he was going to achieve it. When asked more specifically about tactics in that interview I can remember him saying something to the effect of football not being rocket science and he likes to get it wide quickly and get crosses in.

[brady1993]

8 hours ago, Kokosnuss said:

 

Bad managers often make good players look like average players and average players look like terrible players. Good managers often make even average players look good (even if it's for a short burst).

Sometimes a player is a clear standout in terms of class (McGoldrick) and can almost help drag other players up to their level, but that's rare.

Continued exposure to poor management has a habit of convincing onlookers that the players are actually as bad as they look and incapable of being better.

It doesn't even have to be long term exposure - remember watching Chris Martin play under Pearson? It's like Pearson's system was specifically designed to make Martin look bad so he could justify replacing him.

I'm not suggesting Warne is doing the same thing intentionally as I don't think that's in his character, just as a by-product of his limitations.

There's no way Barkhuizen is anywhere near as bad as you make out he is, IMO.

I could be wrong, but If you look back to Chris Wilder's time at Sheffield Utd I have a feeling you could accuse him of having taken on a number of players who'd been 'rejected' by Championship clubs in a similar fashion to Barkhuizen, but he made those rejects into a team where everyone played to their maximum and they reaped the benefits.

 

To add to this players at this level and the championship can often big strengths but big weaknesses. So with the right manager in the right set up they look fantastic but with the wrong one they look like they don't belong at this level.

[MadAmster]

On 29/10/2023 at 11:09, Mihangel said:

Couldn't agree more, we have a decent squad but, I think, a manager who is now out of his depth. I don't think it's a coincidence that Fornah among others appear to be going backwards under Warne's leadership.

I'm sure it's been mentioned but the body language of the players for the 3rd goal was desperate, they were all at sea. The response of whoever was playing left back at that point (Collins? Waghorn, Lord Lucan??) was eye opening.

Barks or Collo should have gone with their #2, he crossed and it was swept into the net from 3 yards out. Had one of them tracked the bloke their 3rd could have been avoided. At 2-1 there's a slight chance of getting the equaliser. At 3-1 the life went out of the team.

[Ghost of Clough]

On 29/10/2023 at 10:09, Mihangel said:

Couldn't agree more, we have a decent squad but, I think, a manager who is now out of his depth. I don't think it's a coincidence that Fornah among others appear to be going backwards under Warne's leadership.

I'm sure it's been mentioned but the body language of the players for the 3rd goal was desperate, they were all at sea. The response of whoever was playing left back at that point (Collins? Waghorn, Lord Lucan??) was eye opening.

On 29/10/2023 at 10:15, Caerphilly Ram said:

Players can only sign pre-contract deals in January with clubs outside of England, so I don’t know how likely it is that Barkhuizen would have signed with anyone in that particular circumstance. 
Also, he may have chosen not to renew his contract, it’s a two way street, it doesn’t mean he wasn’t offered a new deal as they didn’t rate him, it could easily have been a mutual parting of the ways, both parties trying something different. 

I agree with some of your views at times but think you’re doing Barkhuizen a disservice, he’s a decent enough footballer at this level. 

Preston changed to a system which has wing backs and no wingers, so didn't fit in their manager's plans - he was mostly used as a RWB in that final season.

[oomarkwright]

Just seen the goals. Looked like Wildsmith didn't do a lot wrong for the first goal and the second goal looks like it took a deflection off the wall to me.