Warne Out Out

[Walkley Ram]

50 minutes ago, The Last Post said:

Memory can play tricks, This is how I read it, LR was offered a job on the coaching staff but he turned it down, Then DC let him go with a "duty of care" for him.

Happy to be corrected 😊

 

There's a video somewhere of Warne saying he had no role for Rosenior, so it sounds like letting him go was a decision made with Warne's input. Even so, with a new man coming in, it was the right thing for Rosenior to move on.

[Barney1991]

18 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

This is a really interesting post. So much came out about that period after Cocu left, that while his sacking was right at the time, views over time should look more favourably on him due to being hamstrung by circumstances well out of his control. 

I think this is also why i'm so hesitant to be 'Warne Out'. Recruitment in the summer was poor, but I don't know who was responsible for that, so instead of peddling the slightly short-sighted line of ''buck stops with the manager'', I just leave it at 'I'm not overly happy at the minute, but I'm not sure it's all Warne's fault'. I don't know for sure, so I'm not going to condemn someone based on speculation.

You can only get players in on the pull of team size, division, style of play and manager. If I was a player and I looked at these I would not join derby and premier league teams will not want to loan us players based on style of play. The only one I could look at to entice players is the club size.  
 

 

[Walkley Ram]

2 minutes ago, Marriot Ram99 said:

I don't hate him but think he is s*** at his job. Having to rely on someone s*** at their job is always going to make you harbour resentment and get frustrated. 

Don't pay too much attention to the guy you're replying to, he takes it very personally when people don't back Warne.

[Mostyn6]

39 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

But in hindsight, surely Cocu did a superb job.

He got us 10th with a poor squad, whist being constantly undermined by Morris and Rooney, bought through youth properly and introduced Bird, Sibley and Knight into the squad. That second season was absolutely no chance his fault, Rooney was hugely overweight and clearly Cocu was being forced to play him.

But but but the football was dire. Isn't that the point now with Warne?

[Barney1991]

38 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

We had 3 players on the pitch that had come through the academy on Saturday.

Who were all introduced by another manager who now have multiple appearances who if he was manager then would be no where near what they are now 

[Marriot Ram99]

5 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I appreciate you clarifying your stance on it, I was just asking the original poster to do the same. 
My own view is that Clowes is far from being a “bad owner” at this point, and I don’t get why people are “disappointed” in him, as though he’s a naughty child. He’s the owner of the football club, who has invested millions into the club and the local community, without him there potentially wouldn’t be a club. The growing “hate” for Warne by SOME fans, as I’ve yet to see a quantitative study proving its most Derby fans as you and others keep stating, might be warranted but this season isn’t beyond saving and if Clowes has chosen to back his man there’s a couple of options available to fans. One is to accept it and make your choice as to whether you want to carry on following/supporting the club in spite of Warne’s presence. Another is to spend your time doing something else for the moment until such inevitable point as Warne moves on either through his choice or the owners. Another is to become more active in protesting Warne’s management, I’ve yet to see any marches against Warne or mass protests at the grounds by this “most” fans, or banners in the stands demanding “Warne out” or that we “play the McClaren way or else”. 

Clowes tenure as owner should not and, for me, will not be defined by one managerial appointment good or bad. It’s about how he acts as overall custodian for the football club and for now he’s getting most of the other stuff more right than wrong, with time and opportunity to correct what’s happening on the pitch provided I remember my patience. 

So hypothetically if we kept Warne for his full contract and we were midtable with awful football and all the best players going and fans booing and getting very angry do you think that would be acceptable from Clowes?

Don't think it will happen but it comes a point where he looks in the wrong to not sack him, I wouldn't have appointed him but would have sacked him at the end of last season if not about a month ago. But we are getting into the territory where he will be very lucky to have a job if things don't improve.  Warne could not do any worse imo and I strongly believe that. No manager could have us bottom half, the players organising themselves would play better than under Warne I think and I mean that. I've seen us play s*** for all 6 games I have see this season, we are embarrassingly bad its criminal how bad he has manged us. Caveman football without results.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Marriot Ram99

[RadioactiveWaste]

19 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

This is a really interesting post. So much came out about that period after Cocu left, that while his sacking was right at the time, views over time should look more favourably on him due to being hamstrung by circumstances well out of his control. 

I think this is also why i'm so hesitant to be 'Warne Out'. Recruitment in the summer was poor, but I don't know who was responsible for that, so instead of peddling the slightly short-sighted line of ''buck stops with the manager'', I just leave it at 'I'm not overly happy at the minute, but I'm not sure it's all Warne's fault'. I don't know for sure, so I'm not going to condemn someone based on speculation.

I remember Warne trying to explain over the summer about the transfers (more or less words to the effect of "we can only get bad deals right now and doing bad deals isn't the right thing to do") but it just came out all wrong and seemed to cause more friction instead of easing it - I think just a case of not being PR game savvy enough but I understand the intention.

 

[May Contain Nuts]

Keep seeing Warne compared to (N) Clough and Cocu.

2 managers with perhaps the most difficult jobs of any Derby manager in my lifetime, or even before that (I'm 37)

Aside from Lampard, perhaps, Warne has the easiest.

There's simply no valid comparison you can make to other managers that successfully defends Warne.

[G STAR RAM]

8 minutes ago, Marriot Ram99 said:

I don't hate him but think he is s*** at his job. Having to rely on someone s*** at their job is always going to make you harbour resentment and get frustrated. 

Things aren't going well at the moment.

I think his cv would suggest he's not as s*** at his job as you think though. 

How do you think you're doing as a supporter of this football club?

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I remember Warne trying to explain over the summer about the transfers (more or less words to the effect of "we can only get bad deals right now and doing bad deals isn't the right thing to do") but it just came out all wrong and seemed to cause more friction instead of easing it - I think just a case of not being PR game savvy enough but I understand the intention.

 

It's often the case that Warne says what he means at the beginning of him talking and then back peddles furiously to make you know that he really didn't mean to throw whoever the point was about under the bus. But he did mean it and he continues to throw others under the bus.

[YorkshireRam]

1 minute ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I remember Warne trying to explain over the summer about the transfers (more or less words to the effect of "we can only get bad deals right now and doing bad deals isn't the right thing to do") but it just came out all wrong and seemed to cause more friction instead of easing it - I think just a case of not being PR game savvy enough but I understand the intention.

 

I won't disagree about Warne being clumsy with his words (although recent interviews seem a lot more measured). But he also REALLY strikes me as the type of bloke who'd take the fall/blame, even if he knew something wasn't really his fault. I highly, highly doubt only signing free transfers was Warne's idea, I suspect this was imposed from higher up so the club could be ran ''sustainably'', and he's then made the best of it to the media.

Again, I'm speculating here though because we don't know. I just genuinely feel bad laying all the blame at his door when I've got no proof how much of a hand he's had in where we are now. 

[CongletonRam]

I am of the opinion that if you did a poll of all Derby fans, the majority would still be backing PW.

I still believe that many of the supporters wanting Warne out are those young, rather naive fans who would turn their back on the team in a heartbeat. The instant success that comes with young minds.

Either way, it's something of a mute point as it's music to my ears when out owner comers out and fully backs the manager.

That is what the club needs...stability. Given time, and hopefully some real money; I remain very confident that PW will succeed.　

 

[brady1993]

Just now, CongletonRam said:

I am of the opinion that if you did a poll of all Derby fans, the majority would still be backing PW.

I still believe that many of the supporters wanting Warne out are those young, rather naive fans who would turn their back on the team in a heartbeat. The instant success that comes with young minds.

Either way, it's something of a mute point as it's music to my ears when out owner comers out and fully backs the manager.

That is what the club needs...stability. Given time, and hopefully some real money; I remain very confident that PW will succeed.　

 

I ask this genuinely and not facetiously but why ? What are you seeing that gives you that level of confidence? 

And what do you mean by succeed? Promotion? If so in what time frame?

[YorkshireRam]

16 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

You can only get players in on the pull of team size, division, style of play and manager. If I was a player and I looked at these I would not join derby and premier league teams will not want to loan us players based on style of play. The only one I could look at to entice players is the club size.  
 

 

Money?

[Oldben]

https://www.derbycounty.news/news/paul-warne-speaks-out-on-derby-county-future-after-board-meeting/

 

[G STAR RAM]

11 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

Who were all introduced by another manager who now have multiple appearances who if he was manager then would be no where near what they are now 

So the point was its easier to get behind a team when players have come through the academy, I point out we had 3 on Saturday and then the point becomes that its not them academy players we need, its different ones.

You are aware of what happened to the academy during administration arent you?

At the recent forum I think they even said it will take 18 months or 2 years to actually rebuild the academy, I assume that's another things some supporters are choosing to overlook.

 

[CongletonRam]

7 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

I ask this genuinely and not facetiously but why ? What are you seeing that gives you that level of confidence? 

And what do you mean by succeed? Promotion? If so in what time frame?

I've been over this in details on other threads.

[YorkshireRam]

15 minutes ago, Marriot Ram99 said:

Warne could not do any worse imo and I strongly believe that. No manager could have us bottom half, the players organising themselves would play better than under Warne I think and I mean that. I've seen us play s*** for all 6 games I have see this season, we are embarrassingly bad its criminal how bad he has manged us. Caveman football without results.

Doesn't matter how strongly you believe it, this is incorrect. Maybe try watching more than half the games before making statements like this again?

[Andicis]

11 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

I am of the opinion that if you did a poll of all Derby fans, the majority would still be backing PW.

I still believe that many of the supporters wanting Warne out are those young, rather naive fans who would turn their back on the team in a heartbeat. The instant success that comes with young minds.

Either way, it's something of a mute point as it's music to my ears when out owner comers out and fully backs the manager.

That is what the club needs...stability. Given time, and hopefully some real money; I remain very confident that PW will succeed.　

 

The classic "everyone who has a different viewpoint to me is young and impulsive". It's not about instant success. It's about seeing evidence of progress and about seeing improvement over his tenure. The fact is we're on as many points after 14 games this year as last. Indicating that we've made no progress on a side that only finished 7th. 

We aren't building a squad for the future with the profiles of players we're signing. If the plan was to prepare for a longer term project, Warne wasn't the right guy. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Andicis

[CongletonRam]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

The classic "everyone who has a different viewpoint to me is young and impulsive". It's not about instant success. It's about seeing evidence of progress and about seeing improvement over his tenure. The fact is we're on as many points after 14 games this year as last. Indicating that we've made no progress on a side that only finished 7th. 

We aren't building a squad for the future with the profiles of players we're signing. If the plan was to prepare for a longer term project, Warne wasn't the right guy. 

not everyone, just many.