Comrade 86 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 3 hours ago, Crewton said: Subscription only, unfortunately. Unsurprisingly perhaps, it's also a core principle of the Worker's Party of Great Britain. In addition to (understandable) support for a Palestinian state and opposition to Zionism, applicants seeking selection as PPCs for the party in the impending GE are expected to support the party's stance that the war in Ukraine is NATO'S fault. Oddly, the article fails to reference WPGB or any of their 2,962 members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 26 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said: Oddly, the article fails to reference WPGB or any of their 2,962 members. I'd have been surprised if it did, but the extract just reminded me of something I'd read last week that highlighted that it wasn't solely countries outside of 'the West' that held a different view about the war in Ukraine and that 'different view' was going to put to the British public by a minor p*******l party with an elected MP at the next election. Apologies to the mods for mentioning the 'P' word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 1 hour ago, Crewton said: Apologies to the mods for mentioning the 'P' word. It's ok. George Galloway is a celebrity and not a politician 😂 David Graham Brown and Crewton 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 35 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: It's ok. George Galloway is a celebrity and not a politician 😂 To be fair, I deliberately didn't mention the Scottish Player by name because it's reputed to be bad luck 😉 David Graham Brown and Stive Pesley 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) Reports today that both Ireland and Australia might consider recognising the Palestinian state, as part of a two-state solution. Without a lasting peace, it might be argued that it's not that significant, but will other nations now break ranks too? Biden is coming under increasing pressure to further press Netanyahu for compromise and I now wonder whether an attack on Rafa seem likely at all. One hopes not. Perhaps now the greatest threat to the ceasefire and the possibility of a lasting truce may come from outside entities, which a cynic might say could have been Israel's true motivation all along. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-68758678 https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/martin-says-ireland-will-recognise-palestinian-statehood-1611346.html Edited April 10 by Comrade 86 links Alph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 36 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said: Reports today that both Ireland and Australia might consider recognising the Palestinian state, as part of a two-state solution. Without a lasting peace, it might be argued that it's not that significant, but will other nations now break ranks too? Biden is coming under increasing pressure to further press Netanyahu for compromise and I now wonder whether an attack on Rafa seem likely at all. One hopes not. Perhaps now the greatest threat to the ceasefire and the possibility of a lasting truce may come from outside entities, which a cynic might say could have been Israel's true motivation all along. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-68758678 https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/martin-says-ireland-will-recognise-palestinian-statehood-1611346.html I can't even begin to imagine what a Palestinian State would look like. Not now. The west would demand a hand in who leads it. Palestinians would reject that. They already see the leadership in West Bank as a weak compromised government. The whole point is that Palestinians demand self determination. Would the West also deal with the extremists in Israel (which, despite the media shift, goes further than Netenyahu)? No. "Israel is a democracy". If the West allowed the Palestinians the freedom to elect their leadership... we could be talking anything from a power vacuum within Palestine to a leadership emerging that would bring us back to war again. Never going to happen as you can see from the opposition view in Australia We are just stuck in the mindset that Israel has the absolute right to defend itself by whatever means, to elect Zionist leaders and that it's up to the Palestinians to somehow wave it's right of self defence (trust that the Int community will defend them) and elect a suitable leadership. The West says Israel has moral superiority over all the Middle East. It can not be an arbiter of peace from that position. Even now, they stand beside Netenyahu. They can't talk about a Palestinian State until they're prepared to tackle the Apartheid and belligerent State. They can't even stop sending weapons never mind apply international pressure. Apologies for cynical rant. It's just the calls for a Palestinian State are too late or too early. There couldn't be a worse time Comrade 86 and Ram-Alf 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 16 minutes ago, Alph said: I can't even begin to imagine what a Palestinian State would look like. Not now. The west would demand a hand in who leads it. Palestinians would reject that. They already see the leadership in West Bank as a weak compromised government. The whole point is that Palestinians demand self determination. Would the West also deal with the extremists in Israel (which, despite the media shift, goes further than Netenyahu)? No. "Israel is a democracy". If the West allowed the Palestinians the freedom to elect their leadership... we could be talking anything from a power vacuum within Palestine to a leadership emerging that would bring us back to war again. Never going to happen as you can see from the opposition view in Australia We are just stuck in the mindset that Israel has the absolute right to defend itself by whatever means, to elect Zionist leaders and that it's up to the Palestinians to somehow wave it's right of self defence (trust that the Int community will defend them) and elect a suitable leadership. The West says Israel has moral superiority over all the Middle East. It can not be an arbiter of peace from that position. Even now, they stand beside Netenyahu. They can't talk about a Palestinian State until they're prepared to tackle the Apartheid and belligerent State. They can't even stop sending weapons never mind apply international pressure. Apologies for cynical rant. It's just the calls for a Palestinian State are too late or too early. There couldn't be a worse time No apology required mate, I think you're just vocalising some of the same concerns many of us share. When you look at the 'tactics' employed by the IDF one might think that the raising of Gaza was done with the specific intention of making any return as challenging as possible. As it is, it's a bloody mess, quite literally. That said, I'm not sure I share your view about calls for a Palestinian state being poorly timed. For me, it's now or never. Pressure must be brought to bear IMO. Likewise, irrespective of how enormous the task might seem to us, I doubt the Palestinians themselves view it that way, but before any of these notions become salient, we need to see a lasting truce and I concede that this may yet prove a massive hurdle. On a brighter note, Blighty has at least played a minor role in the purportedly largest aid airdrop to date. Bombing the Yemen one week, aid work the next. Life in the RAF is nothing if not diverse 😑 ariotofmyown, Highgate and Alph 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted April 12 Author Share Posted April 12 On 10/04/2024 at 12:36, Comrade 86 said: No apology required mate, I think you're just vocalising some of the same concerns many of us share. When you look at the 'tactics' employed by the IDF one might think that the raising of Gaza was done with the specific intention of making any return as challenging as possible. As it is, it's a bloody mess, quite literally. That said, I'm not sure I share your view about calls for a Palestinian state being poorly timed. For me, it's now or never. Pressure must be brought to bear IMO. Likewise, irrespective of how enormous the task might seem to us, I doubt the Palestinians themselves view it that way, but before any of these notions become salient, we need to see a lasting truce and I concede that this may yet prove a massive hurdle. On a brighter note, Blighty has at least played a minor role in the purportedly largest aid airdrop to date. Bombing the Yemen one week, aid work the next. Life in the RAF is nothing if not diverse 😑 I listen to the podcast 'a Muslim and a Jew Go There' with Sayeeda Warsi and David Baddiel. She agrees with you that there's no better time to talk about a two state solution. The world has neglected this conflict for too long. You're probably right. I just don't trust the world (USA) to do what needs to be done. They already seem to be banging their war drums at Iran for daring to consider "a right to self defence". Likewise, Iran will continue to arm anyone willing to take the fight to Israel. I'm not sure they'll do anything directly but they will always threaten Israel. A Palestinian State coming out of this? I can't see how Israel or America could allow it. I'm not even sure they should now. That's what I mean by too late/too early. This state would be funded and motivated to attack Israel. It's fecked. Comrade 86 and David Graham Brown 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/ Interesting piece which might help give a bit more insight into why this particular round of conflict has been so destructive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 56 minutes ago, Alph said: I listen to the podcast 'a Muslim and a Jew Go There' with Sayeeda Warsi and David Baddiel. She agrees with you that there's no better time to talk about a two state solution. The world has neglected this conflict for too long. You're probably right. I just don't trust the world (USA) to do what needs to be done. They already seem to be banging their war drums at Iran for daring to consider "a right to self defence". Likewise, Iran will continue to arm anyone willing to take the fight to Israel. I'm not sure they'll do anything directly but they will always threaten Israel. A Palestinian State coming out of this? I can't see how Israel or America could allow it. I'm not even sure they should now. That's what I mean by too late/too early. This state would be funded and motivated to attack Israel. It's fecked. It certainly seems like a mountain to climb, but the West (or the sympathisers therein) can't give up now. We can't just throw our hands in the air and say, 'it's too hard' as in some ways that lack of determination is what empowers Netanyahu. It's also not lost on me that the assassinations on Iranian soil might be another twisted device to curry favour with the US at a time where relations are more strained than at any time I can recall. The enemy of my enemy etc. I'm not convinced either that any Palestinian state would immediately look to attack Israel again. I think the Palestinians will feel they have suffered enough for their allegiance to Hamas, but I concede that the Israelis could quite easily instigate further conflict. Alph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Reports this evening that Iran has launched a drone strike on Israel…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood P Dowd Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 5 minutes ago, Gaspode said: Reports this evening that Iran has launched a drone strike on Israel…. The drones will take a few hours to reach Israel, the drones will have to cross Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inter politics Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Cruise missiles too. Hopefully this won't escalate into a regional conflict.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood P Dowd Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 22 minutes ago, inter politics said: Cruise missiles too. Hopefully this won't escalate into a regional conflict.. I think there is every chance that this might escalate into conflict beyond the boundaries of the region. It all depends if the Israelis will retaliate to the Iranian retaliation. The Iranians has pre warned Israel of this attack let’s hope the drones/missiles are shot down before they reach Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Looks like it really was "Operation Shoot Down These Drones We Launched So We Can Save Face By Seemingly Retaliating For Damascus And We'll Call It Quits". Anag Ram, ariotofmyown, ramit and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood P Dowd Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 9 hours ago, Eddie said: Looks like it really was "Operation Shoot Down These Drones We Launched So We Can Save Face By Seemingly Retaliating For Damascus And We'll Call It Quits". Perhaps Israel could simply take Iran off their Xmas card list !!🤔 Something will happen but it may not be as overt as missiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 39 minutes ago, Elwood P Dowd said: Perhaps Israel could simply take Iran off their Xmas card list !!🤔 Something will happen but it may not be as overt as missiles. Maybe Israel could bomb the areas where many of the teenage girls who recently protested against the government come from? That will learn them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 1 hour ago, Elwood P Dowd said: Something will happen but it may not be as overt as missiles. No it will be a sh!t storm, Navy, Airforce at the ready, USA/UK will/have supported in the defence of the drones, Hunker down people this is fcuking War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 11 hours ago, Eddie said: Looks like it really was "Operation Shoot Down These Drones We Launched So We Can Save Face By Seemingly Retaliating For Damascus And We'll Call It Quits". Maybe, if it had just been drones, but 120 ballistic missiles suggests that they were hoping more would get through than seemingly did. It's undoubtedly an escalation in respect of Iran v Israel, so if it does turn out to be "quits" I'll be both surprised and hugely relieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted April 14 Author Share Posted April 14 Netenyahu saw those drones and popped the champagne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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