How good is our squad?

[Van der MoodHoover]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

If every other team in this league has a squad consisting of below average players then our average players are winners!

But there have to be some above average players somewhere, or the average is not, well, the average.....🤔

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

But there have to be some above average players somewhere, or the average is not, well, the average.....🤔

Ahhh but is it in ours or is it in another teams?

I think the attempt to quantify our mostly above league 1 quality squad isn't very convincing. But whatever. 😄

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

Ahhh but is it in ours or is it in another teams?

I think the attempt to quantify our mostly above league 1 quality squad isn't very convincing. But whatever. 😄

This is true. Depends what you're averaging over.

Someone's stats somewhere else suggested we have an above average defence but a just below average attack.

However, even that is probably skewed because we play so many defensive players......so maybe the quality of the players is about average after all......

 

 

I give up.

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

This is true. Depends what you're averaging over.

Someone's stats somewhere else suggested we have an above average defence but a just below average attack.

However, even that is probably skewed because we play so many defensive players......so maybe the quality of the players is about average after all......

 

 

I give up.

We have seen the level that many of our squad can reach. If they have that ability it is down to our manager to play them so that level of ability is shown on the pitch. That is my take, without actually counting the minutes each player has ever played!

[CongletonRam]

15 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

Back on track… Korey Smith, 7 consecutive seasons at Championship level before signing for us…

Yes, you're correct. His career does suggest that he could do something at this level.

We have players that we all think could do and should do more, but when you actually break the squad down; the stats do suggest that the team isn't necessarily as good as what we think they should or even could be.

I cannot identify a player that has done anything of significance prior to joining Derby.

I want to believe in this squad, and I do but the stats don't point me to a team that should necessarily be challenging for a place in the top 2 or even top 4. 

I think Warne has done a decent job taking into account everything he is trying to install into the club at a delicate time with a new owner and reading constant threads wanting Warne out is driving me mad.

[Srg]

It’s decent, nothing more, nothing less. Main issue is the imbalance in certain areas. We are desperately short up top, and when we aren’t playing with 5 at the back, we are also short on the wing. 

Fornah has solved a large issue in the middle of the park with his athleticism, but we still massively lack pace up top. 

We are good in the goalkeeping department and also in defence with Bradley consigned to the bench and Nyambe proving to be a really good edition. 

[duncanjwitham]

30 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

Yes, you're correct. His career does suggest that he could do something at this level.

We have players that we all think could do and should do more, but when you actually break the squad down; the stats do suggest that the team isn't necessarily as good as what we think they should or even could be.

I cannot identify a player that has done anything of significance prior to joining Derby.

I want to believe in this squad, and I do but the stats don't point me to a team that should necessarily be challenging for a place in the top 2 or even top 4. 

I think Warne has done a decent job taking into account everything he is trying to install into the club at a delicate time with a new owner and reading constant threads wanting Warne out is driving me mad.

In the last league game, 8 of the starters had played 100+ times at Championship level or higher (I.e. the league above where we are now), many of them significantly more times than that. The others being Wildsmith (who’s been excellent since he’s been here) and Cashin and Fornah (2 very good young players).  What “things of significance” do you expect them to have done? We have players who’ve got promoted out of this league. Players who’ve been promoted to the prem. Players who’ve been in the League One team of the year.  We are still a league one club, we aren’t going to be fielding a team full of current prem players.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

21 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

Yes, you're correct. His career does suggest that he could do something at this level.

We have players that we all think could do and should do more, but when you actually break the squad down; the stats do suggest that the team isn't necessarily as good as what we think they should or even could be.

I cannot identify a player that has done anything of significance prior to joining Derby.

I want to believe in this squad, and I do but the stats don't point me to a team that should necessarily be challenging for a place in the top 2 or even top 4. 

I think Warne has done a decent job taking into account everything he is trying to install into the club at a delicate time with a new owner and reading constant threads wanting Warne out is driving me mad.

you could say that about any squad we've had in the last 20 years though.  How many of any squad we had in the championship had the majority of their careers in the top flight.  Non I can think of bar Bent, maybe Ledley and Weimann when he signed and probably none of the 13/14 squad.  They were all lower end SPL or perennial mid table championship players under Clough/Mac 1.

The team we have now has far more experience of higher level football than League 1, than our championship sides had of football in a higher division and they were pushing for promotion for 6 years. 

 

[Ghost of Clough]

9 hours ago, CongletonRam said:

There is clearly much difference of opinion when it comes to Paul Warne and whether or not he is doing a good job.

Some blame the manager, some the players, some the tactics but there is one theme that seems to be rather consistent, that the players could all be doing a bit more, that they are not playing to their potential. This is therefore suggesting that the players could and maybe should be tearing up this league assuming they are set up correctly.

I believe this is not to be the case and after going through the squad, I am even more convinced.

Joe Wildsmith: Used as a bit part player for Wednesday (74 games in 9 seasons).

Kane Wilson: Has played the majority of his career in League Two on loan at very small clubs.

Criag Forsyth: Has started to show signs particularly in recent games that age is catching up with him.

Conor Hourihane: Played the majority of his career at League One level or below (but did play in the Prem for a time at Villa)

Sonny Bradley: Played the majority of his career at League One level or below.

Eiran Cashin: A good prospect and will go on to play at a higher level, but both times I have listened to opposition radio commentary of our games, and in both games they claimed they were targeting Cashin for his lack of pace. Brighton were reportedly interested but the fact that he remains at Derby likely tells a tale.

Tom Barkhuizen: Released by Preston as he clearly wasn't considered good enough for them.

Max Bird: A good player at this level and has shown he can be a decent player in the Championship.

James Collins: Played the majority of his career at League One level or below.

Martyn Waghorn: 14 goals in his last 3 seasons. Any goal is a bonus.

Mendez-Liang: Played the majority of his career at League One level or below (but did play in the Prem for a season at Cardiff)

Korey Smith: A player who has yo-yo ed  between Division One and the Championship.

Scott Loach: Played the majority of his career at League One level or below.

Conor Washington: Played the majority of his career at League One level or below.

Liam Thompson: Not sure PW trusts Liam, as he struggles for playing time.

Louie Sibley: Needs to produce more and learn to be a little less rash in the tackle (or even learn to tackle if he is going to be played deeper)

Tyreece John Jules: 9 goals in 56 in the main at League One level. Hardlly prolific for a player who is dubbed a striker.

Callum Elder: Played the majority of his career at League One level or below.

Tyrese Fornah: Played the majority of his short career at League One level or below.

Joe Ward: Played the majority of his short career at League One level or below.

Josh Vickers: Played the majority of his career at League One level or below.

Jake Rooney: Played all of his short career at League One level or below.

Curtin Nelson: Played the majority of his career at League One level or below.

 

And there you have it, the Derby squad. It doesn't really shout out 'PROMOTION' to me.

Now you could look at other clubs and possibly say the same thing, but the point I am trying to make is that we are not a side that is likely to show remarkable improvement for the simple fact that we just don't have the players that are capable of bringing about significant change.

What is it that most fans see that is telling them we are currently underachieving?

Who are those good players that many clubs have that are going to make the difference for DCFC?

 

 

 

Firstly, you need to compare our squad with the rest of the division. You continuously state our players are "average", yet in a different thread you also admit that the lack of quality in this league means we could still finish top 2.

Secondly, are you suggesting current ability of the players puts them at L1 ability or their historic ability? What relevance is 6 years ago to judging if a player is good enough now? Would a player who spent 4 seasons in the L1 top 6, 2 in the Championship followed by 1 in the PL a L1 journey man? He is based on the definition you've been using.

Thirdly, you've put a negative slant on most players, even those who are being targeted by PL clubs. A lack of pace doesn't mean a player isn't of quality above L1 level, and I'm struggling to think of many times when Cashin has actually been beaten for pace

Let's look at the squad in a more positive light...

Joe Wildsmith: 4th most clean sheets last season
Josh Vickers: Signed from a Championship club
Scott Loach: Effectively part of the coaching staff, providing emergency cover

Sonny Bradley: Just captained his last club to promotion to the PL
Eiran Cashin: Wanted by PL club(s), and wanted on loan by top end Championship clubs
Curtin Nelson: Spent 4 seasons playing regularly in the Championship before we signed him and was matchday captain for both of those clubs at various points.
Jake Rooney: An emerging talent and been steady in a L1 side battling for top 6.

Joe Ward: His last 3 seasons consist of: promotion to the Championship, a season in the Championship, and a top 6 finish
Kane Wilson: No player in L2 has more assists in 21/22, then excluded from Bristol's Championship squad because he didn't suit Pearson's defensive back 4
Nyambe: Conveniently missed off your list. Spent his entire career above L1 prior to joining us and has been a very solid defensive option since joining us.
Criag Forsyth: Spent 11 seasons in the Championship before following us down to L1 and has been a reliable player every game at this level.
Callum Elder: Played below Championship for only 1 seasons since 19/20, and he was a key part of that Hull side who won promotion.

Conor Hourihane: Hadn't played below Championship level since 15/16, including a full season in the PL, prior to joining us
Max Bird: Wanted by Championship clubs fighting for promotion.
Korey Smith: Hadn't played below Championship level since 14/15 prior to joining us
Liam Thompson: The majority of his games have been at Championship level.
Louie Sibley: The majority of his games have been at Championship level.
Tyrese Fornah: Was a regular in a Championship side prior to joining us.

Tom Barkhuizen: Hadn't played below Championship level since 16/17. Left Preston as they changed to a formation which doesn't use wingers
Mendez-Liang: One of the highest goal contribution records in the league last season

James Collins: 3 seasons in the Championship before joining us, recording 37 goal contributions. Currently averaging a goal every 138 minutes for us this season.
Martyn Waghorn: 1 goal contribution every 215 minutes during the 3 seasons in the Championship before rejoining us. Currently averaging a goal every 93 minutes.
Conor Washington: Signed from a Championship club where he was a regular
Tyreece John Jules: A goal or assist every 200 minutes at this level.

[Anag Ram]

I think our squad is pretty good compared to our rivals.

Midfield is a bit sparse at the moment cover wise, but will be bolstered by the return of Ward and Thompson.

Bradley is looking better as backup in defence.

We know we lack a natural goal scorer but those who play up front all play for the team and create chances for others.

The secret is in getting the squad playing to the best of their ability and responsibility is shared between players and manager.

The frustration comes in knowing the team is often better than it shows on match day. 

I would like to see a return to the days when the warm up involved players smashing the ball in the net. I think it shows intent.

Too often we get early chances and look ‘rusty’.

 

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

Bloody hell.

I worry about people who would try this hard to think of the most negative thing(s) they can. #Glass99%empty

[CongletonRam]

28 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Firstly, you need to compare our squad with the rest of the division. You continuously state our players are "average", yet in a different thread you also admit that the lack of quality in this league means we could still finish top 2.

Secondly, are you suggesting current ability of the players puts them at L1 ability or their historic ability? What relevance is 6 years ago to judging if a player is good enough now? Would a player who spent 4 seasons in the L1 top 6, 2 in the Championship followed by 1 in the PL a L1 journey man? He is based on the definition you've been using.

Thirdly, you've put a negative slant on most players, even those who are being targeted by PL clubs. A lack of pace doesn't mean a player isn't of quality above L1 level, and I'm struggling to think of many times when Cashin has actually been beaten for pace

 

 

Our players are average in a very average league. Nothing wrong there.

I am judging their current ability based on their career. That is fair enough. If you spend the majority of your career at League One level, it is fair enough to assume that your level is League One. Nothing wrong there.

No negative slant on the players...just dealing in statistics.

League One is so devoid of quality does mean that even a club with average players has a chance. We have a chance going up this season.

 

[hintonsboots]

Have @CongletonRam and Paul Warne ever been seen in the same room ?

[CongletonRam]

6 minutes ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

Bloody hell.

I worry about people who would try this hard to think of the most negative thing(s) they can. #Glass99%empty

This thread is not meant to be a negative one. It deals in statistics and is in reply to the constant negative posters who are asking for the managers head.

It is based on fact. You take that as negative as let's face it, one look at the Derby squad and there is cause to be negative.

[CongletonRam]

11 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

I think our squad is pretty good compared to our rivals.

Midfield is a bit sparse at the moment cover wise, but will be bolstered by the return of Ward and Thompson.

Bradley is looking better as backup in defence.

We know we lack a natural goal scorer but those who play up front all play for the team and create chances for others.

The secret is in getting the squad playing to the best of their ability and responsibility is shared between players and manager.

The frustration comes in knowing the team is often better than it shows on match day. 

I would like to see a return to the days when the warm up involved players smashing the ball in the net. I think it shows intent.

Too often we get early chances and look ‘rusty’.

 

Yes, I agree. Our squad does look OK when compared to our rivals.

It doesn't however look like a squad that has automatic promotion written all over it.

My point being that fans expectations should be tempered. Calling for PW's head when we are sitting where we are in the league is crazy.

[CongletonRam]

4 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

Have @CongletonRam and Paul Warne ever been seen in the same room ?

Not sure of the point you are trying to make here.

Let's call it lost in translation eh.

[Ghost of Clough]

4 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

Our players are average in a very average league. Nothing wrong there.

I am judging their current ability based on their career. That is fair enough. If you spend the majority of your career at League One level, it is fair enough to assume that your level is League One. Nothing wrong there.

No negative slant on the players...just dealing in statistics.

League One is so devoid of quality does mean that even a club with average players has a chance. We have a chance going up this season.

 

Average compared with what? The rest of our league? If the players are better than most in the league, they're 'above average'.

You need to judge players on current ability. Not what they did 10 years ago or when they were 16

[CongletonRam]

Just now, Ghost of Clough said:

Average compared with what? The rest of our league? If the players are better than most in the league, they're 'above average'.

You need to judge players on current ability. Not what they did 10 years ago or when they were 16

I am judging the players on all of the information I have. Current playing time, recent past playing time. What else would you have me judge the players on?

For the 3rd time, we have average players playing in an average league. Get over this.

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

7 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

This thread is not meant to be a negative one. It deals in statistics and is in reply to the constant negative posters who are asking for the managers head.

It is based on fact. You take that as negative as let's face it, one look at the Derby squad and there is cause to be negative.

Is it balls based on facts..

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

It's good enough to be challenging at a higher position in the table than it currently is. Even if we fall short of automatic promotion we should almost certainly be in the mix for it.