Ghost of Clough Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, CongletonRam said: I agree that mid-table would be disappointing, and I do think that this squad can achieve top 8. Anywhere between 5th and 8th would be acceptable and achievable if the players can find some consistency. You logic, based on the club's financial resources (considering wages and transfer fees) are top 3, yet our squad player ability is "average". You're therefore saying Warne is a very good coach, since he gets more out of the players than their ability deserves, but the club's recruitment (which includes Warne) is abysmal. metalsheep02 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 8 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: You really are clueless aren't you? I've just proven that your 'majority of games at a certain level proves that's the level of current ability' is a load of rubbish, but you still insist on it being a thing. I am dealing in statistics. Of our squad, 18 out of the 26 first team squad of players have played the majority of their games at League One level of below. Why that makes me 'clueless' is beyond me. They are cold hard facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: You logic, based on the club's financial resources (considering wages and transfer fees) are top 3, yet our squad player ability is "average". You're therefore saying Warne is a very good coach, since he gets more out of the players than their ability deserves, but the club's recruitment (which includes Warne) is abysmal. That's a lot of worlds you are putting into my mouth there. The single point that I am trying to make here is that some of our fanbase is calling for our managers head. I don't think this is fair based on the players he at at his disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: We had a good budget - good enough for promotion. We could pay transfers. We could and did offer 3 year deals. If he couldn't get players to come to Derby ask why not. I am not privy to why players may or may not had turned down Derby. Probably because they had the opportunity to play in a better league. Tamworthram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, CongletonRam said: I am not privy to why players may or may not had turned down Derby. Probably because they had the opportunity to play in a better league. So Warne was only looking to sign players that wanted to play in the Championship or above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, CongletonRam said: I am dealing in statistics. Of our squad, 18 out of the 26 first team squad of players have played the majority of their games at League One level of below. Why that makes me 'clueless' is beyond me. They are cold hard facts. You may be "dealing with statistics", but those statistics do not tell you how good a player is right now. You're clueless, because you keep peddling this line. Just to repeat, your 'statistics' tell you a player who just spent 3 seasons in the Championship, eventually winning promotion to the PL and is now a regular starter in the PL, is actually just a League 2 quality player. 5 minutes ago, CongletonRam said: That's a lot of worlds you are putting into my mouth there. The single point that I am trying to make here is that some of our fanbase is calling for our managers head. I don't think this is fair based on the players he at at his disposal. Not really. You say we have an average squad (meaning midtable), but think we'll finish 5th-8th (above average). We also have a top 3 budget. Therefore the facts follow that you think our recruitment is abysmal, but Warne is still getting more out of the players. There's a huge disparity between what you think, and the opinions of our players, management, ownership and majority of our fanbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 26 minutes ago, CongletonRam said: I agree that mid-table would be disappointing, and I do think that this squad can achieve top 8. Anywhere between 5th and 8th would be acceptable and achievable if the players can find some consistency. I think you must be on the wind up if you think finishing 7th or 8th would be acceptable this season. Is there anyone else on here that considers this would be acceptable this season? McMuffin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, i-Ram said: I think you must be on the wind up if you think finishing 7th or 8th would be acceptable this season. Is there anyone else on here that considers this would be acceptable this season? They must be one of the 7 who expect less than the Playoffs i-Ram and JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said: So Warne was only looking to sign players that wanted to play in the Championship or above? In the current transfer market, even Warne has stated that any player of any quality has a host of clubs chasing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Just to repeat, your 'statistics' tell you a player who just spent 3 seasons in the Championship, eventually winning promotion to the PL and is now a regular starter in the PL, is actually just a League 2 quality player. I'm sorry, but I wasn't aware that we had signed any players who are 'now a regular starter in the PL'. Have I missed something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: They must be one of the 7 who expect less than the Playoffs Play offs for me would represent an OK season. We all want promotion, but have to look at the bigger picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, CongletonRam said: I'm sorry, but I wasn't aware that we had signed any players who are 'now a regular starter in the PL'. Have I missed something? You're definitely missing something. RoyMac5 and VulcanRam 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, CongletonRam said: In the current transfer market, even Warne has stated that any player of any quality has a host of clubs chasing them. Yes but as I said we are one of the biggest if not the biggest clubs in this division. We have all the resources to more than match any other club in League 1, so why won't they come here? There is nothing wrong with this squad for the level it is playing at - league 1. It is more than good enough for promotion. McMuffin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: There's a huge disparity between what you think, and the opinions of our players, management, ownership and majority of our fanbase. Hence the point of this thread. There is a disparity between those fans that are now calling for our managers head and those fans who are a bit more realistic. While not being a fan of the way in which we are playing, the manager can only work with the players he has at his disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Yes but as I said we are one of the biggest if not the biggest clubs in this division. We have all the resources to more than match any other club in League 1, so why won't they come here? Probably because they have the opportunity to play at a higher level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, CongletonRam said: Hence the point of this thread. There is a disparity between those fans that are now calling for our managers head and those fans who are a bit more realistic. While not being a fan of the way in which we are playing, the manager can only work with the players he has at his disposal. The manager has some control over the players at his disposal though, doesn't he? You can't simply absolve the manager of all blame for the state of the playing squad because the market is a bit tricky. Oxford are playing in the same market with less money and look at how they are doing in comparison to us. McMuffin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: The manager has some control over the players at his disposal though, doesn't he? You can't simply absolve the manager of all blame for the state of the playing squad because the market is a bit tricky. Oxford are playing in the same market with less money and look at how they are doing in comparison to us. Absolutely, I agree. Warne has to take full responsibility. Full resposibility for guiding a team that is currently sitting in the top 10 with a game in hand. Not a terrible position yet a certain section are calling for his head. That is what I have issue with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaianoPOTY98 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, CongletonRam said: Hence the point of this thread. There is a disparity between those fans that are now calling for our managers head and those fans who are a bit more realistic. While not being a fan of the way in which we are playing, the manager can only work with the players he has at his disposal. Yes but the manager brought most of those players in 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, BaianoPOTY98 said: Yes but the manager brought most of those players in 🤔 Agreed, and those players have done ok. If we were sitting in the bottom few, then maybe those fans may have a point but we're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRamOfSwad Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) I think we all need to take a step back, let's get the feel good factor of the club back. It seems like during the hard times with the points deduction we focused on backing the lads and the manager At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you've done in the past, it's about grouping together the lads who want it most and finding a way to win Having a bigger wage bill doesn't necessarily mean anything, in life some people are paid more, some less depending on how old they are and how they sell themselves. What actually matters is how they gel on the pitch and names on paper never reflect how a group of players will perform. Good example of this is players like Ji-Sung-Park or Sergio busquets... don't set the world on fire but fundamental to the teams being successful working for the manager Let's get behind the lads and give them the confidence, I think they are low and if any of them read this forum I would feel like I wasn't valued. The game against Cambridge when mendez got the ball at the half way line with the whole pitch ahead of him... he looked spooked! once the crowd realised he is the fastest player on the pitch and he was through on goal with a sprint. You could tell he was gonna fluff it, these players feel the pressure at pride park... I dunno I could be wrong.. does anyone else see it like that? I think that's why the performances have been lacking at home, I think they feel the weight of the fans expectations. they are normal humans and I'm sure they read comments from the Internet Anyway, Up the Rams! 🐏 Edited October 13, 2023 by TheRamOfSwad CongletonRam and Archied 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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