duncanjwitham Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Just now, CongletonRam said: I am judging the players on all of the information I have. Current playing time, recent past playing time. What else would you have me judge the players on? For the 3rd time, we have average players playing in an average league. Get over this. I asked you earlier in the thread and you didn't respond... what specific "things of significance" do you think our players should have done? What kind of players do you think we need to have, to have an automatic promotion worthy squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said: Is it balls based on facts.. Nice reply, but can you maybe have a little more substance to your post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: It's good enough to be challenging at a higher position in the table than it currently is. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, CongletonRam said: I am judging the players on all of the information I have. Current playing time, recent past playing time. What else would you have me judge the players on? For the 3rd time, we have average players playing in an average league. Get over this. You aren't using recent past. You're using phrases such as 'majority of career'. You use this phrase when referring to players who have barely played below the Championship in the 5 years before joining us. For example, Vickers, Bradley, Nelson, Nyambe, Elder, Wilson, Hourihane, Smith, Fornah, Barkhuzien, Collins, Waghorn and Washington all played in the Championship the season before joining us. You could argue a number of players are aging and on the decline, but that's not what you said. You're including information from more than a decade ago for some of those players, which is certainly not 'recent'. I'm not the only person to have asked, but you've consistently failed to explain what you mean by average. To most, it would suggest mid-table quality. This is contradictory to your other comment that we have a chance of promotion - suggesting at the very least, it's an above average squad. sage 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said: You aren't using recent past. You're using phrases such as 'majority of career'. You use this phrase when referring to players who have barely played below the Championship in the 5 years before joining us. For example, Vickers, Bradley, Nelson, Nyambe, Elder, Wilson, Hourihane, Smith, Fornah, Barkhuzien, Collins, Waghorn and Washington all played in the Championship the season before joining us. You could argue a number of players are aging and on the decline, but that's not what you said. You're including information from more than a decade ago for some of those players, which is certainly not 'recent'. I'm not the only person to have asked, but you've consistently failed to explain what you mean by average. To most, it would suggest mid-table quality. This is contradictory to your other comment that we have a chance of promotion - suggesting at the very least, it's an above average squad. I have looked at the careers of the players and said that they have spent the majority of their carrer at League One or below. Thts ia facts and there is NOTHING wrong with looking at their entire careers. If a player was signing for Derby, the management would address their whole career, not just their recent. What we are missing at the minute are players that are capable of producing moments. That is what makes a players above average. Someone who can produce moments on a regular basis. The most significant 'moments' of this season were produced by a player that wasn't even on the managers radar such is the desperation to bring in a striker. Are you in the PW out camp? I'm guessing so. Waggy is a good example of displaying just how desperate we were to bring in a goalscorer. We are forced to turn to a player with a woeful recent scoring record as that is simply the market with which PW has to operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, CongletonRam said: I have looked at the careers of the players and said that they have spent the majority of their carrer at League One or below. Thts ia facts and there is NOTHING wrong with looking at their entire careers. If a player was signing for Derby, the management would address their whole career, not just their recent. What we are missing at the minute are players that are capable of producing moments. That is what makes a players above average. Someone who can produce moments on a regular basis. The most significant 'moments' of this season were produced by a player that wasn't even on the managers radar such is the desperation to bring in a striker. Are you in the PW out camp? I'm guessing so. Waggy is a good example of displaying just how desperate we were to bring in a goalscorer. We are forced to turn to a player with a woeful recent scoring record as that is simply the market with which PW has to operate. Looking at their entire definitely does not tell you about their ability now. Pelly Ruddock Mpanzu has played the majority of his career in League 2 (or lower), yet has played in every game for a PL side this season. At the other end of the scale, Curtis Davies has lpayed the majority of his career in the Championship or higher, yet is playing for the side rock bottom of the League 1 table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 20 minutes ago, CongletonRam said: Why? Because they have demonstrated their ability to perform at a high level in L1 at times, and I believe the if the squad was consistently set up to play to its strengths we could maintain those levels more consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Looking at their entire definitely does not tell you about their ability now. Pelly Ruddock Mpanzu has played the majority of his career in League 2 (or lower), yet has played in every game for a PL side this season. At the other end of the scale, Curtis Davies has lpayed the majority of his career in the Championship or higher, yet is playing for the side rock bottom of the League 1 table. If you play the majority of your career at League Two, it suggests your ability is League Two. Are you seriously arguing with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magicman Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 11 hours ago, RoyMac5 said: You say average - how can you judge if you can't put them into a scale of players in this division. How are they average? Average means they do not change games, have the skills to beat the best, nor show consistency in performance quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 Just now, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: Because they have demonstrated their ability to perform at a high level in L1 at times, and I believe the if the squad was consistently set up to play to its strengths we could maintain those levels more consistently. I hope and wish that they can all raise their games, but there is little or nothing in their stats to suggest that they can. Clearly, a certain small section of our fanbase believes this to be the case and are using it as a whip with which to beat our manager. Name me the players in our squad who can produce that bit of stardust in the team? Who are the players who can produce that bit of magic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, Magicman said: Average means they do not change games, have the skills to beat the best, nor show consistency in performance quality. That's not the point. If other squads in this league are below average! But why did Warne sign all of them then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alram Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) I think you can measure a squad on whether they can achieve promotion based on How many of our current squad could make an impact at the level above? I honestly think the answer is very few, even the ones that played at the level above for a few seasons had little impact at that level which tells you league one is there level and my biggest issues remains the same which I am sure I bore people with but we have too many old players on the decline and not enough with an upwards trajectory Edited October 13, 2023 by alram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, CongletonRam said: I hope and wish that they can all raise their games, but there is little or nothing in their stats to suggest that they can. Clearly, a certain small section of our fanbase believes this to be the case and are using it as a whip with which to beat our manager. Name me the players in our squad who can produce that bit of stardust in the team? Who are the players who can produce that bit of magic? A little bit of magic can win you a game, but a squad wins you a league. To answer your question directly though Waghorn had some magic in him at Peterborough, Smith had some magic in him at Blackpool, NML is a very exciting player when utlised correctly and Hourihane can change a game with his goals from distance. We have players that at this level are good enough to turn a game around with some individual brilliance (Sibley who has won games with his talent in the Championship, Barkhuizen to add another). In our squad we have got players who have played at or above League One level and multiple players who have won promotion from League One. Despite our financial situation over the last couple of seasons and our lack of ability (or willingness this summer) to pay transfer fees, we are not scrapping around in the bargain bin by League One standards. Our wage budget is one of, if not the highest in the league but our position does not currently reflect any of the above. Mid-table would be an abject failure based on the squad we have and the relative quality of everyone else in League One as it stands. Edited October 13, 2023 by JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta plymouthram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: That's not the point. If other squads in this league are below average! But why did Warne sign all of them then? Any player of any substance that comes onto the market has a host of clubs chasing him. Warne was dealing with scraps in the summer transfer market and that is why he is left with a squad that is short in numbers in areas, and is short of quality all over the pitch. He will be very aware of this. I don't think we should use his signing of average players as a stick to beat him with. We have to understand the market. No team has any money, so clubs deal largely in free transfers. I doubt whether any of the players, maybe with the exception of Hourihane were Warne's first choice. As a player, the only thing we can offer is the size and stature of DCFC. It attracts the likes of Hourihane and Smith, players who were lorded when they came in as some fans were of the misguided opinion trhat these were players that could change the fortunes of our club. Bit like most of the players here, they are nothing more than average players. even at League One level. Edited October 13, 2023 by CongletonRam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: A little bit of magic can win you a game, but a squad wins you a league. To answer your question directly though Waghorn had some magic in him at Peterborough, Smith had some magic in him at Blackpool, NML is a very exciting player when utlised correctly and Hourihane can change a game with his goals from distance. We have players that at this level are good enough to turn a game around with some individual brilliance (Sibley who has won games with his talent in the Championship, Barkhuizen to add another). In our squad we have got players who have played at or above League One level and multiple players who have won promotion from League One. Despite our financial situation over the last couple of seasons and our lack of ability (or willingness this summer) to pay transfer fees, we are not scrapping around in the bargain bin by League One standards. Our wage budget is one of, if not the highest in the league but our position does not currently reflect any of the above. Mid-table would be an abject failure based on the squad we have and the relative quality of everyone else in League One as it stands. I agree that mid-table would be disappointing, and I do think that this squad can achieve top 8. Anywhere between 5th and 8th would be acceptable and achievable if the players can find some consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 14 minutes ago, CongletonRam said: If you play the majority of your career at League Two, it suggests your ability is League Two. Are you seriously arguing with that? That particular 'majority of career at League Two' player just spent 3 seasons in the Championship and won promotion to the Premier League. I think there is considerable evidence to argue against your point that his ability is that of a League Two player. The same will apply to a very long list of players in every division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CongletonRam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 Just now, Ghost of Clough said: That particular 'majority of career at League Two' player just spent 3 seasons in the Championship and won promotion to the Premier League. I think there is considerable evidence to argue against your point that his ability is that of a League Two player. The same will apply to a very long list of players in every division. You have lost me. Only 8 of our current squad have played more career games higher than League One. I am dealing only in statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 We could have bought James Maddison in the summer, but he would have been feck all use if the other 9 were being coached to kick the ball over his head to Mendez Laing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Just now, CongletonRam said: You have lost me. Only 8 of our current squad have played more career games higher than League One. I am dealing only in statistics. You really are clueless aren't you? I've just proven that your 'majority of games at a certain level proves that's the level of current ability' is a load of rubbish, but you still insist on it being a thing. Jubbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 9 minutes ago, CongletonRam said: Any player of any substance that comes onto the market has a host of clubs chasing him. Warne was dealing with scraps in the summer transfer market and that is why he is left with a squad that is short in numbers in areas, and is short of quality all over the pitch. He will be very aware of this. We had a good budget - good enough for promotion. We could pay transfers. We could and did offer 3 year deals. If he couldn't get players to come to Derby ask why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account.
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now