Conor Hourihane, Derby's next captain.

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, oodledoodle said:

Oh and I don't like his bobble hat or the fact that he dares to have a personality either. Wind your neck in Paul.

are you david mcgoldrick ?

[Ram@Lincoln]

3 hours ago, Ian Buxton's Bat said:

I'd say Hourihane is good at getting in the ref's ear rather than in the ref's face.

That may be important, bearing in mind the touted crackdown on ref's personal space invasion by players.

We don't want some uber aggressive nutter as captain, neither do we want a shrinking violet.

Good choice IMO.

That's an excellent point. With the supposed crack down, the new rules make it even clearer that it's only the captain who's really allowed to speak to the referee. If we have our most "influential" in that role, it can only be good for the team. 

Then as already said, he's captained a few of his former teams, he's an experienced international who's been there and done it at all levels.

We, as fans, don't know the players personally or as well as the players know each other as team mates. Therefore, let's go with their judgement and beliefs. As you say, for me he's a good choice as the players want him. 

[RoyMac5]

 

[ilkleyram]

6 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

yes i heard the interview. Fine for him to explain his thinking. I don’t agree with it. But as we heard, it was not an anonymous ballot so I suspect it’ll work out ok in the end  

The most worrisome thing about PW is his ‘honesty’ mantra. There’s a point where bluntness becomes destructive -  a little gilding the lily here and there may be what’s needed.  If you visit derby as a potential new star striker you are told ‘you do this on my terms, this is what you will need to do”. It’s not a good sell (unless perhaps the manager’s name is Wayne Rooney). We need a stand out striker because of the way teams set up against us at PP and PW’s  ‘you do this on my terms’ is not a good sell to most of them. The new culture is a good thing, we had lost the plot, and Warne has been a positive in that respect. But the idea that bluntness (‘honesty’) is a necessary part of the new culture is false but it reflects the way Warne operates. We need a star no 9 and many stars need their tummies tickling. I wish someone had tickled McGoldrick’s tummy a bit more 

The logical extension of your argument is that you want a manager who is not blunt and straightforward, one who is dishonest with the players he wants to come to the club or with the players already here. The very opposite of our greatest ever manager perhaps. And that despite the fact that only one person will get the sack should the players not perform. 
In interview after interview by players from every club you will get comments along the lines of: ‘I just want to know where I stand’; ‘I like manager X because he’s been honest with me’.  Every good manager in the history of football sets standards, lets their players know what is expected of them on and off the pitch. I can’t see that Warne is doing anything that players won’t expect or like in that regard and if he’s also upholding the standards he sets then well done him.

[kevinhectoring]

4 hours ago, David said:

A crazy process which Guardiola, widely considered to be the best manager around at the minute has done the same, then lifted the Premier League title.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-city-players-captain-vote-24754845.amp

Oh, Klopp as well

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/322564-klopp-liverpool-vote-van-dijk

What do they know I guess 🤷🏻‍♂️

looks like each of them has done it once. Other examples ?   Of course you can imagine a scenario where it makes perfect sense, this player-empowerment. But I think a manger is only advised to do it if he knows the outcome will be acceptable on the pitch. Do you think Klopp doubted Virgil would get the gig? 

The funny (and ironic) thing about your example is this. With Liverpool and City, you know the proud winner of the lucky dip will be a player who delivers 110%, 100% of the time. Because they all do. The concern with Hourihane is that Warne is a manager who talks endlessly about pressing, gas out, energy and commitment ; and yet in Hourihane we have an elegant footballer with a ‘storied career’ (by the standards we must now apply to our div1 selves)  but who is not consistent in his effort. The dissonance between that and the manager’s mantra is a risk for us, because if Hourihane is directing traffic (as he does, and as he will do all the more, as skipper) but not putting in the mileage, then that’s a recipe for disharmony in the dressing room. 

‘like I said’, let’s hope this spurs Hourihane to more consistent effort. If it does, it’ll work well. 

[Gladram]

45 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

‘like I said’, let’s hope this spurs Hourihane to more consistent effort. If it does, it’ll work well. 

He doesn't have to. Club captain isn't the one who runs around the most, shouts the most or is the most aggressive. 

It's the one who sets an example on attitude and behaviour in training, personal life and games.

The players, most of who worked with him last season, think Conor is that person.

[Day]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

looks like each of them has done it once. Other examples ?   Of course you can imagine a scenario where it makes perfect sense, this player-empowerment. But I think a manger is only advised to do it if he knows the outcome will be acceptable on the pitch. Do you think Klopp doubted Virgil would get the gig? 

The funny (and ironic) thing about your example is this. With Liverpool and City, you know the proud winner of the lucky dip will be a player who delivers 110%, 100% of the time. Because they all do. The concern with Hourihane is that Warne is a manager who talks endlessly about pressing, gas out, energy and commitment ; and yet in Hourihane we have an elegant footballer with a ‘storied career’ (by the standards we must now apply to our div1 selves)  but who is not consistent in his effort. The dissonance between that and the manager’s mantra is a risk for us, because if Hourihane is directing traffic (as he does, and as he will do all the more, as skipper) but not putting in the mileage, then that’s a recipe for disharmony in the dressing room. 

‘like I said’, let’s hope this spurs Hourihane to more consistent effort. If it does, it’ll work well. 

You're not a Warne fan are you?

[Carl Sagan]

8 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

well one thing Hourihane IS good at is getting in the referee’s face which sadly is a big part of the role these days. 

 

7 hours ago, Ian Buxton's Bat said:

I'd say Hourihane is good at getting in the ref's ear rather than in the ref's face.

That may be important, bearing in mind the touted crackdown on ref's personal space invasion by players.

We don't want some uber aggressive nutter as captain, neither do we want a shrinking violet.

Good choice IMO.

I think we've been too nice on the field for far too long. Refs find it incredibly easy to give dodgy decisions against us, and not give us obvious decisions. Whether it's in the ref's face or in his ear, Conor is the only one of last season's team who was prepared to step up in this regard and question the ref and put some amount of pressure on him. And, because of that, I can see this is a good appointment. Let him do it officially, with the armband. It's something we badly need.

[Gaspode]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

looks like each of them has done it once. Other examples ?   Of course you can imagine a scenario where it makes perfect sense, this player-empowerment. But I think a manger is only advised to do it if he knows the outcome will be acceptable on the pitch. Do you think Klopp doubted Virgil would get the gig? 

The funny (and ironic) thing about your example is this. With Liverpool and City, you know the proud winner of the lucky dip will be a player who delivers 110%, 100% of the time. Because they all do. The concern with Hourihane is that Warne is a manager who talks endlessly about pressing, gas out, energy and commitment ; and yet in Hourihane we have an elegant footballer with a ‘storied career’ (by the standards we must now apply to our div1 selves)  but who is not consistent in his effort. The dissonance between that and the manager’s mantra is a risk for us, because if Hourihane is directing traffic (as he does, and as he will do all the more, as skipper) but not putting in the mileage, then that’s a recipe for disharmony in the dressing room. 

‘like I said’, let’s hope this spurs Hourihane to more consistent effort. If it does, it’ll work well. 

I think we’ll see a more consistent and therefore more effective player this season - last season it was noticeable that he got better as he played more games. Early on he was quite a way off the pace because he simply wasn’t fit enough - hardly surprising as he’d been a bit-part player before he joined us and then had a very short pre-season. This year he should be far better prepared for the rigours of a tough (and long) season and I’d expect to see that on the pitch….

[kevinhectoring]

28 minutes ago, David said:

You're not a Warne fan are you?

not yet: I see no football reason to be more than neutral but I think he’s played an important role in repairing the club’s culture.  I am so wanting to see him deliver success and attractive football and if he does I’ll be singing his praises from the rooftops/wanting his spag bol recipe 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by kevinhectoring

[Day]

5 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

not yet: I see no football reason to be more than neutral but I think he’s played an important role in repairing the club’s culture.  I am so wanting to see him deliver success and attractive football and if he does I’ll be singing his praises from the rooftops/wanting his spag bol recipe 

I hear you, although Warne comes across as a man that won't eat a lot of carbs, I bet he's more of a chicken or fish salad kinda man, lots of protein and vitamins and would hit the karaoke after one bottle of Corona.

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

he logical extension of your argument is that you want a manager who is not blunt and straightforward, one who is dishonest with the players he wants to come to the club or with the players already here. The very opposite of our greatest ever manager perhaps

actually I like the warnock/sam a bluffness - they have an authenticity that softens the blows and even allows them to work well with gifted temperamental players. I don’t find PW’s approach to be genuine by comparison. Not least because it’s all too much about him. That’s why I say I don’t think we’ll recruit or retain stars  

Clough may indeed be amongst the greatest ever, but do you think his approach would work with the entitled spoiled mega stars of today? Didn’t even work with the Leeds stars of the 70s

[ilkleyram]

18 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

actually I like the warnock/sam a bluffness - they have an authenticity that softens the blows and even allows them to work well with gifted temperamental players. I don’t find PW’s approach to be genuine by comparison. Not least because it’s all too much about him. That’s why I say I don’t think we’ll recruit or retain stars  

Clough may indeed be amongst the greatest ever, but do you think his approach would work with the entitled spoiled mega stars of today? Didn’t even work with the Leeds stars of the 70s

Oh I think - hypothetical though it may be - that Clough would still be a great today with the same approach and that players today would love to play for him.  His failure at Leeds said more about particular circumstances, the (poor) leadership of the club, the players themselves and his own ego (which made him what he was) than it ever said about his managerial skills. Shankley would succeed today, so too Stein; Ferguson would succeed in 25 years time. They’re the greats. But we’ll never know so it’s all rather pointless.

Your first paragraph makes me wonder what point you’re actually making. Warnock (who succeeded at huddersfield last season) and Allardyce (who failed at Leeds last season) are the original half time tea cup throwers. Both have more qualities as managers in the modern game than they’re probably given credit for but their approach is similar to Warne’s from the outside - they set standards, let players know what’s expected of them and then hold players accountable. It’s about them and their standards, their way of working. Players fit in with them not the other way round. Soft is the last adjective you would apply to either.
What is Warne doing that’s any different? 

[RamsFan10]

It always amazes me how much importance the captaincy holds for some. I really don’t think it means much at all. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by RamsFan10

[Walkley Ram]

8 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

are you david mcgoldrick ?

Probably

[DRBee]

12 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

actually I like the warnock/sam a bluffness - they have an authenticity that softens the blows and even allows them to work well with gifted temperamental players. I don’t find PW’s approach to be genuine by comparison. Not least because it’s all too much about him. That’s why I say I don’t think we’ll recruit or retain stars  

Clough may indeed be amongst the greatest ever, but do you think his approach would work with the entitled spoiled mega stars of today? Didn’t even work with the Leeds stars of the 70s

But there you are just ignoring the actual history  - Clough had been very critical of Leeds manager and players well before he moved there. Nowt to do with his management style.

[Yoxoram]

Well done to the players. A very good choice.

[RoyMac5]

Maybe it's his head that has been turned?! 

[Carnero]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Maybe it's his head that has been turned?! 

We can but hope.

[DiggerB]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Maybe it's his head that has been turned?! 

Apparently AV U16s is where the big bucks is!!