Paul Warne on Sportscene for full hour 1st August

[Alty_Ram]

To a point, my thoughts are just 'What will be will be'. I'll be there in South Stand cheering on whoever is wearing the Rams shirts so I'm really looking forward to the coming season as I invariably do. That said, it does feel as a combination of club and press that we have been slightly economical to this point with regards to our financial situation ('restrictions lifted' headlines) in the sense that very few people expected Bielik and Knight to leave for fees without Warne having the opportunity to reinvest some of that. If Bird leaves too, will that just be absorbed as well ?

You might (possibly correctly) say that we could have spent some of the incoming fees but chose not to, at least not on what was available at the price, but the reality is that we have still had to assemble another team with free transfers, potentially topped up by loans. That being the case, I think we need to seriously temper some folks expectations as other teams have not had that restriction and have been able to build on last year. With the contracts situation overshadowed by EFL restrictions, we have had to have a major rebuild again with very little resource.

If that's the reality then I'll live with that because that's where we are and as we are all aware, a bit over a year ago things were dire and we faced an existential threat to our club, but it did feel as if we were led to believe that there was perhaps more freedom to shape the side by buying players than perhaps seems to be the case.

Re 20-25 goal strikers, certainly that is not a requirement for any team getting promoted but that assumes that there are several meaningful contributions from elsewhere. At the moment I'm not really seeing where our goals will come from. The midfield apart from Hourihane hardly look to be full of goals and we still desperately need at least 1 additional forward/striker, ideally not in the veteran category who can take some of the load over what will be a long season. There were members of our squad who looked to be running on empty in the run in last year and with Warne's preferred intense pressing style I just think that running out of steam again is a real possibility if we can't give some positions a break. Our squad is tiny again.

I'm sure we'll all give Warne and the lads our full backing when they step on the pitch, but I think it is fair and legitimate to just raise a few concerns about some potential limitations to our ambitions. We have remodelled this team again with what little resource we seem to have had available but I am not seeing anything approaching a title challenge (just my opinion). After just missing out on playoffs last year, I think the expectation of most was that we'd be right in there this year with Warne able to sign players to fill the roles that he wants and that we'd have a transfer kitty that with a few outgoings and good ST sales that we would be used to fund that.

Warne suggested that promotion wasn't vital this year but he alluded to being judged if he didn't achieve it. Personally I think he is being asked to achieve a lot with this squad and I fear for him slightly re expectation.

[Caerphilly Ram]

17 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

My apologies I meant in goal returns. I can't see NML, Barkz, SIbley, Bird etc. improving vastly on their returns last season. So unless Collins or Washington step up to the plate or our defence is that solid we don't need to score as many goals then I think top 6 at best is our current level.

Ah right, I get it now, thanks for clarifying. I thought you meant in general people wouldn’t pull their weight. 
I’ve said a few too many times on various threads where I think the goals could come from so won’t go into detail other than to say the names you listed don’t need to improve vastly on their goal returns, if they each improved them by a couple it improves things overall, it’s my daft optimism again! 

[mwram1973]

1 hour ago, Raich Carter said:

100%! I must have said this on about 5 threads. We've not had a 20+ goal a season striker for eons and now over-entitled moaners go on and on like we're Man City - they really don't get that we're in L1 on a L1 budget - it's really not that complicated! How quickly they've all forgotten that we were almost closed down and now they're demanding top players. Ridiculous.

And as you say, McG was NOT prolific before last season. PW made him a 20 goal striker. This is factually inarguable - he played for 20 seasons and didn't get 20 goals in any of them prior to playing for other managers.

I'm not going to bite anymore - just pray to god that Wash gets 20+ goals so the spoiled brats stop bloody moaning.

Fingers crossed, I've said on another thread that I think Collins looks leaner and fitter this pre season and his goals have confirmed for me he's going to be an improved player this season, especially with how Warne is going to set up. 

[TomTom92]

3 minutes ago, Alty_Ram said:

To a point, my thoughts are just 'What will be will be'. I'll be there in South Stand cheering on whoever is wearing the Rams shirts so I'm really looking forward to the coming season as I invariably do. That said, it does feel as a combination of club and press that we have been slightly economical to this point with regards to our financial situation ('restrictions lifted' headlines) in the sense that very few people expected Bielik and Knight to leave for fees without Warne having the opportunity to reinvest some of that. If Bird leaves too, will that just be absorbed as well ?

You might (possibly correctly) say that we could have spent some of the incoming fees but chose not to, at least not on what was available at the price, but the reality is that we have still had to assemble another team with free transfers, potentially topped up by loans. That being the case, I think we need to seriously temper some folks expectations as other teams have not had that restriction and have been able to build on last year. With the contracts situation overshadowed by EFL restrictions, we have had to have a major rebuild again with very little resource.

If that's the reality then I'll live with that because that's where we are and as we are all aware, a bit over a year ago things were dire and we faced an existential threat to our club, but it did feel as if we were led to believe that there was perhaps more freedom to shape the side by buying players than perhaps seems to be the case.

Re 20-25 goal strikers, certainly that is not a requirement for any team getting promoted but that assumes that there are several meaningful contributions from elsewhere. At the moment I'm not really seeing where our goals will come from. The midfield apart from Hourihane hardly look to be full of goals and we still desperately need at least 1 additional forward/striker, ideally not in the veteran category who can take some of the load over what will be a long season. There were members of our squad who looked to be running on empty in the run in last year and with Warne's preferred intense pressing style I just think that running out of steam again is a real possibility if we can't give some positions a break. Our squad is tiny again.

I'm sure we'll all give Warne and the lads our full backing when they step on the pitch, but I think it is fair and legitimate to just raise a few concerns about some potential limitations to our ambitions. We have remodelled this team again with what little resource we seem to have had available but I am not seeing anything approaching a title challenge (just my opinion). After just missing out on playoffs last year, I think the expectation of most was that we'd be right in there this year with Warne able to sign players to fill the roles that he wants and that we'd have a transfer kitty that with a few outgoings and good ST sales that we would be used to fund that.

Warne suggested that promotion wasn't vital this year but he alluded to being judged if he didn't achieve it. Personally I think he is being asked to achieve a lot with this squad and I fear for him slightly re expectation.

Excellent post.

I'm slowly and I mean slowly coming to terms with the fact that this season could be the same as last in terms of results and league positions. However, as you've alluded too when the restrictions were lifted Radio Derby and Leigh Curtis were popping the champers and suggesting that we'd have considerable more room for movement. This has not been the case. Clowes saying our budget was competitive (at the time i was really encouraged by this and took it as we'd be one of the bigger spenders) it seems the term competitive means we'd got a top 10 budget...

Now if you dare question our forward line or our ability to challenge for top 2  on here you seem to get leapt on. 

For saying half the fan base was moaning about Rowett after he made us defensively solid and a team that scored for fun (both in the first 2/3 of the season) but now seem happy with a team that may have to rely on 1-0 wins to get us up the right end of the table, either a lot of people have experienced personal growth as fans or the moaning will really come out if things materialise as i envisage. I liked Rowett and I like Warne but if people are naive enough to think the knives won't come out if we don't hit the highs some are expecting then in my opinion they are blinded by their own optimism. 

Maybe DC will hold firm if this season ends up being another disappointment and will stick with Warne (fair play if he does). But for saying there's been a lot of negativity regarding Warne within his first 10 months I think the pressure could really weigh on DC and ultimately PW. 

A lot of mumbling from me above, but long story short. I wholeheartedly agree that peoples expectations are exceeding our current squads abilities. 

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Past comms from the club have indicated we are no longer under restrictions from EFl or at least these have been eased. Clowes said we have a big budget. Neither of these statements are consistent with what Warne has said or with the summer activity so far. So who is telling the truth.. is Warne just bluffing? 

So you think our signings (and their agents) have cost peanuts? There's players who will hope to get new contracts and then still signings to make. What were you expecting, us to sign Clarke-Harris for £3-4m?

[Curtains]

So players vote for Captain 

 

50 /50 vote Warnie gets vote 

For me it’s Max 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Curtains
Added

[TomTom92]

12 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Ah right, I get it now, thanks for clarifying. I thought you meant in general people wouldn’t pull their weight. 
I’ve said a few too many times on various threads where I think the goals could come from so won’t go into detail other than to say the names you listed don’t need to improve vastly on their goal returns, if they each improved them by a couple it improves things overall, it’s my daft optimism again! 

Can't fault you for your optimism and I hope you're right. 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Alty_Ram said:

Warne suggested that promotion wasn't vital this year but he alluded to being judged if he didn't achieve it. 

I didn't get that from the conversation (I may have momentarily tuned out at a critical time though). I think he is keenly aware of the importance of going up this season. Maybe we are interpreting the word "vital" differently. 

He did however give the "fine margins" example of Sheffield Wednesday's being seconds from staying in League One - the point being that you can do the exact same things as a manager but a moment of fortune/providence can make all the difference to whether you're judged a success or not.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Curtains said:

So players vote for Captain 

 

50 /50 vote Warnie gets vote 

For me it’s Max 

Will be delighted if Max Bird stays but not as captain - this year at least. (If the majority of players feel otherwise then they obviously know better!)

If it isn't Hourihane, Bradley or Forsyth then I will be very surprised.

[duncanjwitham]

For me, the issue with not replacing McGoldrick isn’t necessarily the number of goals he scored, it’s the situations he scored them in.  The other day, I skimmed through his performances from last season, and there were half a dozen or so games where we really struggled to break down teams, and then McGoldrick was the one that got the goal or assist and we won.  I think we got 13 points off the back of those contributions alone.

That’s not to discount other players contributions in those performances or anything, but I do worry that we don’t really have anyone that can do that this season.  If Collins is being marked out of the game by 2 big centre halves, they’re sitting in a low block stifling us, who in this team at the moment, is going to drag a win out of that game somehow?  I’m not sure we have many players that can do that.  And I’m not sure it’s a problem you can solve by just running around more.

[Curtains]

Just now, jameso said:

Will be delighted if Max Bird stays but not as captain - this year at least. (If the majority of players feel otherwise then they obviously know better!)

If it isn't Hourihane, Bradley or Forsyth then I will be very surprised.

Max by a mile 

[angieram]

2 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

For me, the issue with not replacing McGoldrick isn’t necessarily the number of goals he scored, it’s the situations he scored them in.  The other day, I skimmed through his performances from last season, and there were half a dozen or so games where we really struggled to break down teams, and then McGoldrick was the one that got the goal or assist and we won.  I think we got 13 points off the back of those contributions alone.

That’s not to discount other players contributions in those performances or anything, but I do worry that we don’t really have anyone that can do that this season.  If Collins is being marked out of the game by 2 big centre halves, they’re sitting in a low block stifling us, who in this team at the moment, is going to drag a win out of that game somehow?  I’m not sure we have many players that can do that.  And I’m not sure it’s a problem you can solve by just running around more.

Warne specifically addressed this point last night by saying he expects them to come from better set pieces. 

Whether he gets this is yet to be seen, but we have definitely looked more dangerous with these in pre-season.

[Curtains]

Joey Barton who would have thought he’d stop us getting in the playoffs.  

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Now if you dare question our forward line or our ability to challenge for top 2  on here you seem to get leapt on. 

Can't speak for anyone else, but the issue for me isn't that we don't need to improve the forward line. So presumably that counts as "questioning" our forward line. If even PW sees that we need one or two more forwards, it's hard for anyone to make a case that we don't, while we currently have just Collins and Washington (plus the rookie Brown).

No leaping-on necessary, but I have questioned the line that the two strikers we've got aren't good enough. This has been dissected elsewhere on the forum but can be summarised as: Collins' strengths haven't necessarily been played to over the last year, and we are told (and the early signs suggest) that Washington brings something new to our attack. If they both stay fit, they could do very well, and we're hardly impoverished in terms of the quality of our attack, relative to other teams. What we arguably need is more variety and strength in depth.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Raich Carter said:

100%! I must have said this on about 5 threads. We've not had a 20+ goal a season striker for eons and now over-entitled moaners go on and on like we're Man City - they really don't get that we're in L1 on a L1 budget - it's really not that complicated! How quickly they've all forgotten that we were almost closed down and now they're demanding top players. Ridiculous.

And as you say, McG was NOT prolific before last season. PW made him a 20 goal striker. This is factually inarguable - he played for 20 seasons and didn't get 20 goals in any of them prior to playing for other managers.

I'm not going to bite anymore - just pray to god that Wash gets 20+ goals so the spoiled brats stop bloody moaning.

Do 20 goal forwards not exist in L1 then? We'll have a top 3 wage budget and a top 6 player budget once transfer fees are accounted for. It's not unreasonable to expect to get a 20 goal forward when we should also expect to br challenging for automatic promotion. That's not to say we need one to achieve that goal.

Out of the last 5 seasons, there have been 20 occasions where a player reached 20 goals. 9 were free signings.

[duncanjwitham]

2 minutes ago, angieram said:

Warne specifically addressed this point last night by saying he expects them to come from better set pieces. 

Whether he gets this is yet to be seen, but we have definitely looked more dangerous with these in pre-season.

That seems slightly optimistic to me. We definitely do look more dangerous from them (although it’s obviously only preseason etc), but I’d be concerned that the games where we struggle to breakdown teams, because we come up against a big, physical, well organised team, are going to be the games that we’ll find it harder to score from set pieces (for the exact same reasons).

I do wonder how often Warne faced this kind of opposition at Rotherham. I suspect a lot more teams were willing to rock up there and try and have a go, play a bit of football etc, than they do at Pride Park.  And I think his style of play is far more effective when you’re up against a footballing team than a defensive, physical one.

[angieram]

Just now, Ghost of Clough said:

Do 20 goal forwards not exist in L1 then? We'll have a top 3 wage budget and a top 6 player budget once transfer fees are accounted for. It's not unreasonable to expect to get a 20 goal forward when we should also expect to br challenging for automatic promotion. That's not to say we need one to achieve that goal.

Out of the last 5 seasons, there have been 20 occasions where a player reached 20 goals. 9 were free signings.

And I'm guessing they weren't all "20 goal forwards" when they signed? 

As we saw last season, playing to a striker's strengths create the conditions that make the difference. 

My concern isn't that we haven't got a 20 goal forward, but that we haven't got enough potential 20 goal forwards yet. I think we're two bodies short up there to provide depth over a long season. 

I think Warne knows that too, hence his comments about it last night.

[Raich Carter]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Do 20 goal forwards not exist in L1 then? We'll have a top 3 wage budget and a top 6 player budget once transfer fees are accounted for. It's not unreasonable to expect to get a 20 goal forward when we should also expect to br challenging for automatic promotion. That's not to say we need one to achieve that goal.

Out of the last 5 seasons, there have been 20 occasions where a player reached 20 goals. 9 were free signings.

20 goal forwards are rare and sought after - literally every club in the League is after one or wants to hold onto theirs! And at this level, typically, they were probably not 20 goal strikers in seasons before else they'd be playing in a League above... I.E. we need to get lucky and get a young lad or someone who's hit form or plays well in our system. For example, Chris Martin can be class in the right system but also looks shocking when asked to press, balls over the top, etc so he could be a 20 goal a season man in a system that's built around him or equally, 1 goal a season if it doesn't suit his game. Obviously our system suited McG hence his goal return.

We don't know if Wash is that guy... Based on his record, probably not but then the same was true of McG. 

Being realistic, we're rebuilding the entire squad since the fire sale. We want goals across the team, to rely on one person for goals is not ideal but obviously great if we can get that kinda guy but it's not easy.

[angieram]

1 minute ago, duncanjwitham said:

That seems slightly optimistic to me. We definitely do look more dangerous from them (although it’s obviously only preseason etc), but I’d be concerned that the games where we struggle to breakdown teams, because we come up against a big, physical, well organised team, are going to be the games that we’ll find it harder to score from set pieces (for the exact same reasons).

I do wonder how often Warne faced this kind of opposition at Rotherham. I suspect a lot more teams were willing to rock up there and try and have a go, play a bit of football etc, than they do at Pride Park.  And I think his style of play is far more effective when you’re up against a footballing team than a defensive, physical one.

I agree. I am optimistic until it's been proved otherwise, though.

Warne has now got all those things people said we had to wait for, before we judge him. A full pre-season, chance to sign his own players etc etc...

So I'm not going to judge him before a ball has been kicked. I'm going to give him a chance to prove his approach is right.

[Curtains]

Maybe Washington will be the answer with the right service.  
Who knows Collins may do well also. 
Warne has a good track record on promotion from this League .

I would only take Waghorn if he is reasonable about his contract. 
I personally think he won’t take a big pay cut unless he has no other offers at all.

If he’s just waiving for a better offer I’d say no thanks ☺️