Bristol Rovers (A) Sat 15th April

[HorsforthRam]

6 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Question? Did we, in general, and JW, in particular, create the amount of extra time that saw the game still being played when they got the penalty? I think we probably did.

Personally, I think it might be justice. We've complained at other team's "sh1thousery" all season. Was the penalty Karma for us utilising sh1thousery ourselves?

I think yes. The big number going up on the board for injury time gives the opposition encouragement but also, it disrupted our own defensive momentum when the idea was to disrupt their attacking momentum 

[Ram-Alf]

20 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

https://twitter.com/dcfc_live/status/1647939688357851137

"I left Harvey on Saturday, but I texted him on Sunday to say 'How are you?'

"He said 'Alright gaffer, what do you think I should have done differently?' I sent him the video I have of my angle. It shows he could have maybe got in a position quicker, even though I don't think it's a penalty..."

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing 

Edited April 17, 2023 by The Last Post

[RoyMac5]

14 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Question? Did we, in general, and JW, in particular, create the amount of extra time that saw the game still being played when they got the penalty? I think we probably did.

Personally, I think it might be justice. We've complained at other team's "sh1thousery" all season. Was the penalty Karma for us utilising sh1thousery ourselves?

They thought so too. (Also just seen SSN show a clip of the penalty-taker 'doing a Wildsmith'!)

 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, The Last Post said:

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing 

Ask the manager why it's hindsight, not me.

[Anag Ram]

15 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Question? Did we, in general, and JW, in particular, create the amount of extra time that saw the game still being played when they got the penalty? I think we probably did.

Personally, I think it might be justice. We've complained at other team's "sh1thousery" all season. Was the penalty Karma for us utilising sh1thousery ourselves?

I found it all rather sad. Wasting time and adopting rope-a-dope against a team 14th in the third tier of English football.

We have players whose strengths have been clearly demonstrated as creative rather than defensive, yet we try to turn them into Burnley.

Rovers looked shaky every time we attacked yet we chose not to attack.

Wildsmith was an embarrassment.

Bristol has been left with the impression Derby are a horrible cheating club with little other than McGoldrick.

We had a successful start to the season with a pretty established first eleven.

We now seem to have different starters, formations and tactics every week.

We need to get back to 4-3-3 where players know their duties and to bring the best out of our biggest attacking threats.

 

[VulcanRam]

1 hour ago, HorsforthRam said:

 

Seeing it from that angle shows that Warne's comments about being "cheated" were even more ridiculous than they sounded initially. White is on the wrong side of his man, there is contact as the ball heads into the area exactly where the BR player was going, which is presumably what has made the mind of the referee up. In real time, he might feel the BR could get to it. 

It's soft, but there's contact and therefore referee has a decision to make. His line of sight looked decent enough from the Rams TV angle so all this "he guessed" as it he didn't see it is I think a bit desperate. If it had been up the other end, I'd have be screaming for it. So while we can feel a bit aggrieved and on the wrong end of a decision, some of the hyperbole around it all doesn't do us many favours. 

Interestingly though and looking from the other side, I know someone who was in the BR home end, and he said none of their fans really went up for it. 

 

[Crewton]

20 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Bristol has been left with the impression Derby are a horrible cheating club with little other than McGoldrick.

Oh purleeeze! Their manager is Joey Barton 😂

[Norwichram2]

Vulcan Ram, polite enquiry from someone who was at the opposite end of the ground with most of the Rams fans.

Are you implying that the people who had the best view in the stadium didn't think it was a pen?

[Curtains]

2 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

I know this is maybe stretching the positives too much but considering the season we’ve had and the last run of games Id rather be chasing than sitting in the play offs. We now have four cup games, style and everything else is going out of the window and it’s about winning games  to get in to the play offs. Then we have two more cup semi-finals and potentially a final that we have to scratch and claw to have any hope of winning. It’s better having that mentality now than trying to find it in a few games time

Totally agree.   We aren’t out of this just yet. 

[TuffLuff]

3 hours ago, Crewton said:

 

 

My opinion from Saturday hasn’t really changed but I appreciate this view a lot better. The attacking player knows that he isn’t going to get a good connection either at goal or across, or at least doesn’t have the confidence to do so, so he goes in to make something out of it with Whyte and the ref fell for it hook, line and sinker. Don’t blame the player btw and genuinely think if Collins did the same there would be those on here crucifying him for play acting or whatever, but it’s smart play. It’s maybe a bit naive from Whyte, but refs do need to be smarter as to what a player is doing and why. It’s these decisions that have gone against us this season, an opposition player trying to get something because they are loosing the ball and refs being too eager to give a decision. 

No vendetta against the club by the way, but maybe there’s a mentality that these decisions are easier to give against a bigger club? Purely speculating there but I think if the ref thinks about that for one moment, or consults a linesman, then he probably doesn’t give it.

Edited April 17, 2023 by TuffLuff

[jimtastic56]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

They thought so too. (Also just seen SSN show a clip of the penalty-taker 'doing a Wildsmith'!)

 

Let’s be right every team in this league is ripping the fans off . 50 throw ins per game, 30 mins of actual football out of 90. And Warne says we are looking “Leggy”! Thank goodness we are allowed so many subs.

[TuffLuff]

40 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

My opinion from Saturday hasn’t really changed but I appreciate this view a lot better. The attacking player knows that he isn’t going to get a good connection either at goal or across, or at least doesn’t have the confidence to do so, so he goes in to make something out of it with Whyte and the ref fell for it hook, line and sinker. Don’t blame the player btw and genuinely think if Collins did the same there would be those on here crucifying him for play acting or whatever, but it’s smart play. It’s maybe a bit naive from Whyte, but refs do need to be smarter as to what a player is doing and why. It’s these decisions that have gone against us this season, an opposition player trying to get something because they are loosing the ball and refs being too eager to give a decision. 

No vendetta against the club by the way, but maybe there’s a mentality that these decisions are easier to give against a bigger club? Purely speculating there but I think if the ref thinks about that for one moment, or consults a linesman, then he probably doesn’t give it.

Just want to add a few bits to this, mainly because I’ve watched it a few more times to check on a few bits and my overall opinion is that it’s very inconclusive and I don’t think the ref has enough to go on to give the decision but it’s very very inconclusive.

The biggest indicator to it being a pen is Whyte’s positioning, he’s trying to catch up with play rather than being in line.
 

On the flip to that to me is the attackers run towards Whyte and arguably away from  a position to get to a header. I think this is difficult for the ref to say but the linesman should be aware of it. The other thing is I’m not sure if the ref actually sees a clear foul for giving the pen so quickly, the player isn’t dragged to the floor by Whyte, no shirt pull etc. 

The rest is inconclusive, does the player take a look at Whyte and stop playing for the ball? Or Vice versa? Does Whyte trip unaided? It’s all really hard to see.

Point is that I don’t think the ref has enough to go on to give it as quickly as he does. I’m not sure now, and I’m looking for something clear to indicate why he gave it! Said it in my previous post but it’s these rash decisions by the ref, like the Cashin disallowed goal a couple of games back, that are going to be the ones that have an impact on our season

[VulcanRam]

4 hours ago, Norwichram2 said:

Vulcan Ram, polite enquiry from someone who was at the opposite end of the ground with most of the Rams fans.

Are you implying that the people who had the best view in the stadium didn't think it was a pen?

No mate, I'm just saying the chap I know who was in that end said the fans around him didn't go mad screaming for it, although the ref gave it so quickly they barely had time to. Think it's one of those whichever angle you look at you get a different interpretation of where the players are and where the ball is etc. 

Just seen it on EMT and from their camera angle, and from that you can see why the ref gave it quite easily. Also it looks like he had a very clear line of sight. Slowing it down, White loses his man, he's only looking at the ball, they both tussle, White falls over and takes the BR player down with him through contact with his lower leg.

The only thing is whether the ball was well over their heads and impossible for the BR player to get to. Doesn't really matter now anyway!!

My point was that it wasn't an obvious an error than others we've seen this season, and Warne's comments about it were very over the top and perhaps did a good job of shielding the debate over what was a very limp performance after we scored.

Edited April 17, 2023 by VulcanRam

[Mr Tibbs]

5 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

We now seem to have different starters, formations and tactics every week.

 

Is this the case? Sounds like he's taken the scattergun approach and I don't think it could be further from the truth. 

It appears that after the 3 losses in a row (where we have played 4-2-3-1 consistently since the turn of the year?) Warne tried to change things up. He left out Fozzy and went back to the 3-5-2. Since then, we've played 3-5-2 with pretty much the same 11 (exact same eleven in Saturday's case). Interestingly (with the outcry for the return of the 4-2-3-1), we're unbeaten since the change back to his preferred formation, with a points tally that should be more than 5 from 9 given our performances. I don't really like the 3-5-2 but there's a few positives getting lost in the weeds because they don't apply to certain arguments/preferences.  

 

 

 

 

 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Mr Tibbs said:

It appears that after the 3 losses in a row (where we have played 4-2-3-1 consistently since the turn of the year?) Warne tried to change things up. He left out Fozzy and went back to the 3-5-2. Since then, we've played 3-5-2 with pretty much the same 11 (exact same eleven in Saturday's case). Interestingly (with the outcry for the return of the 4-2-3-1), we're unbeaten since the change back to his preferred formation, with a points tally that should be more than 5 from 9 given our performances. I don't really like the 3-5-2 but there's a few positives getting lost in the weeds because they don't apply to certain arguments/preferences.  

Just goes to show that, mostly for a club our size, this league is pretty ordinary and we ought to be top 6 easily.

[Caerphilly Ram]

14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Just goes to show that, mostly for a club our size, this league is pretty ordinary and we ought to be top 6 easily.

This is that expectation and perspective thing again. Club size doesn’t automatically guarantee success, look throughout the current league tables and there are examples of “big clubs” struggling against expectation.

The argument holds up more to say something along the lines of “the quality in our squad, if used in the right way, should comfortably be in the top 6”. Club size does not automatically equate to success and divine right to league position, especially in the context of what happened in our recent past, the limitations of the squad, the current inability of the manager/coaches to get a better level of performance out of the team etc. 

It is not and never will be as simple as “we are a big club and therefore are better than this league” without considering context. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Caerphilly Ram

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

This is that expectation and perspective thing again. Club size doesn’t automatically guarantee success, look throughout the current league tables and there are examples of “big clubs” struggling against expectation.

We have the resources (even under a business plan) and 'pull' to be a top choice to join. The current squad show that. The 'big club' thing is truth. Maybe the other 'big clubs' don't have a good manager to get them out of this league?

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

We have the resources (even under a business plan) and 'pull' to be a top choice to join. The current squad show that. The 'big club' thing is truth. Maybe the other 'big clubs' don't have a good manager to get them out of this league?

The big club thing isn’t truth Roy, that’s the problem. If it was simply a case of “we are a big club, too big for this league” then we would be top of the table and automatically promoted already, right? 
A point about our budget compared to other clubs at this level is valid. Comments about our appeal to players due to the size of our fan base, our stadium, the facilities we offer. These are all contextual reasons as to why our status as a big club could/should allow us to progress out of this league with ease. 

The quality of the squad at our disposal, arguably yes, that means we should be in the play off places (and might still be come the season end). But put simply, just because we are a big club does not mean we are entitled to promotion or play off spots as your comment suggested.

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

The big club thing isn’t truth Roy, that’s the problem. If it was simply a case of “we are a big club, too big for this league” then we would be top of the table and automatically promoted already, right? 

No. That's not what I said. I said we had the resources of a 'big club' and if they were used well we should easily be top 6. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

48 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

50 minutes ago, Mr Tibbs said:

Just goes to show that, mostly for a club our size, this league is pretty ordinary and we ought to be top 6 easily.

 

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No. That's not what I said. I said we had the resources of a 'big club' and if they were used well we should easily be top 6. 

That’s not what I read in your post (see above quote).

From what you wrote it looked as though you were suggesting that a club our size should be top 6 easily in such an ordinary league. If you had included that added context about resources I’d have understood the point better and would have agreed rather than questioned it.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I feel strongly that the simple idea of us being a big club and therefore being guaranteed success, without context of what the club has been through and is still recovering from, is problematic.