Season Ticket Renewals 2023-24

[Tamworthram]

25 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

I don't think we were barred per se from selling season tickets by the fact we were in administration because if we could prove we still had sufficient funds to continue until the end of this season, we would have been allowed to enter this season still in administration. But the reality of our situation was that we could not prove those funds without a takeover. We had run out of cash and Kirchner had to borrow/embezzle £1.6m from Paul Stretford's Triple S Company to pay the wage bill for May because his proposed takeover was incomplete. Selling season tickets was simply not an option available to us while the club remained on the brink of extinction.

So the reality was that we could not sell season tickets until a takeover was completed because until that time we could not guarantee completing this season. I feel fairly sure that the usual early bird offer this time around will simply not be made until it is certain which division we will be playing in next season. That makes sense for both the club and supporters alike and does not seem to give rise to any concern at all. The early bird offer was only available for most of July last year. This year it will be available for two to three months, depending upon when our destiny is decided. There is no rush.

From what has been said in the DET, I get the impression that if we are not promoted there may be a small favourable revision of the business plan because the club is currently running a budget surplus; if we are promoted there may be a more generous revision for next season in the face of the expected increase in revenue. While I think the EFL could have treated us better following the takeover, I don't get the vibes that they still have an axe to grind with us now that Mel Morris is off the scene, hopefully forever.

I reckon you’re right about not selling season tickets until the takeover was completed.

You might well be right as well about delaying the release of prices until we know what league we’ll be playing in. It wouldn’t be the first time the league we’re playing in the following season is still in the balance when ST sales start (I’d go as far to say it seems to have been the norm most seasons in recent years) but it’s the first time we’ve also had to comply with an agreed business plan. Maybe there are two variations on the business plan dependent on what league (and what season ticket prices/revenue) we’re in in year two? 

In the words of Steve McLaren “pure speculation” but, whatever the reason, I’m not stressed about it just keen to know. I’d be quite happy if the club simply announced they are delaying the details until the end of season. I’m hoping there will still be a short early bird discount period but not the end of the world if there isn’t.

I also agree about the EFL not still having an axe to grind or a vendetta against us.

[PistoldPete]

3 hours ago, David said:

You have no evidence for this B4, time to let it go.

Decisions going against us in games? Not the EFL’s fault, look at the Newcastle goal ruled offside through VAR against Forest, ridiculous decisions happen.

Us being under restrictions still? That’s the business plan David Clowes agreed to on taking the club out of administration. Nothing has changed, they haven’t moved the goalposts or put stricter restrictions in place. Nothing.

Other clubs having restrictions lifted? Absolutely nothing to do with us and completely different situations.

The EFL had an issue with Mel Morris and the way he was running the club, not the club itself, Mel Morris has left so there is absolutely no reason for the EFL to have any kind of vendetta against us.

Carry on as you wish though, I just personally think it’s time to move on and stop blaming them for everything as it makes no sense.

I think there is evidence that the restrictions we are under now are more penal than they were for Wigan for example. That has nothing to do with Mel Morris. And Morris left the club in when was it autumn 2021. Efl carried on briefing against quantuma, changing the rules to benefit other clubs not us etc , sucking up to Gibson etc.

 

I do agree with you though dodgy refs are not the EFL’s fault. Directly anyway. 

[B4ev6is]

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I think there is evidence that the restrictions we are under now are more penal than they were for Wigan for example. That has nothing to do with Mel Morris. And Morris left the club in when was it autumn 2021. Efl carried on briefing against quantuma, changing the rules to benefit other clubs not us etc , sucking up to Gibson etc.

 

I do agree with you though dodgy refs are not the EFL’s fault. Directly anyway. 

Mmmmmm

[ram59]

3 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

 

I do agree with you though dodgy refs are not the EFL’s fault. Directly anyway. 

Not directly, but many people still believe that we are a bunch of cheating b***********, who have got off lightly. I suspect that a number of refs are amongst these people and subconsciously their decisions are swayed as such.

[Tamworthram]

1 minute ago, ram59 said:

Not directly, but many people still believe that we are a bunch of cheating b***********, who have got off lightly. I suspect that a number of refs are amongst these people and subconsciously their decisions are swayed as such.

The EFL is our excuse. What is the excuse of the fans of every other club in the country that think they are hard done by referees?

[ilkleyram]

10 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

So why are season tickets not available for renewal? And no idea when they will be? It's rather  late isn't it? 

It's only 'late' in comparison to previous seasons (except this one) but other than cash flow all that really matters is that those who want to buy a ST can do so before the start of the season and the club can do all the admin before the first game.  Even in normal seasons they continue to offer STs or part STs after a season has begun.

The cash flow is important to see us through the summer when no/little income is coming in but, without knowing the ins and outs of how the EFL manage clubs' ST monies, it might be that a good season this season from the point of view of income will help us through the summer period anyway.  And if we can't pay fees for players during the summer because of the business plan then we might have even less of a problem than usual.

The big advantage to DCFC of any delay is that they can price STs according to the division we'll be in - they don't have to guess - and they'll still have time to make any early bird offers if they want to.

My bet would be that ST demand will be high whether we go up or not even if they go on sale after the play offs, and that the problem of no direct debit offer is more to do with credit arrangements because we've been in administration than anything else.  Whether that will change this year or not who knows.

[PistoldPete]

9 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

It's only 'late' in comparison to previous seasons (except this one) but other than cash flow all that really matters is that those who want to buy a ST can do so before the start of the season and the club can do all the admin before the first game.  Even in normal seasons they continue to offer STs or part STs after a season has begun.

The cash flow is important to see us through the summer when no/little income is coming in but, without knowing the ins and outs of how the EFL manage clubs' ST monies, it might be that a good season this season from the point of view of income will help us through the summer period anyway.  And if we can't pay fees for players during the summer because of the business plan then we might have even less of a problem than usual.

The big advantage to DCFC of any delay is that they can price STs according to the division we'll be in - they don't have to guess - and they'll still have time to make any early bird offers if they want to.

My bet would be that ST demand will be high whether we go up or not even if they go on sale after the play offs, and that the problem of no direct debit offer is more to do with credit arrangements because we've been in administration than anything else.  Whether that will change this year or not who knows.

Sorry why is this not a normal season? Because we might have an outside chance of promotion to the Championship? That’s hardly abnormal compared to previous seasons we’ve rarely been certain what division we would be in until quite late in the season every year. 
 

And in previous years we weren’t certain we would not be in the Premier League which would have had a far bigger impact on pricing. 
 

And I can’t see lack of credit being affected by administration as that was a different regime. The only impact is we have to set up a new regulated entity but that shouldn’t take 12 months or more. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by PistoldPete

[Tamworthram]

37 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Sorry why is this not a normal season? Because we might have an outside chance of promotion to the Championship? That’s hardly abnormal compared to previous seasons we’ve rarely been certain what division we would be in until quite late in the season every year. 
 

And in previous years we weren’t certain we would not be in the Premier League which would have had a far bigger impact on pricing. 
 

And I can’t see lack of credit being affected by administration as that was a different regime. The only impact is we have to set up a new regulated entity but that shouldn’t take 12 months or more. 

It’s not a normal season because we’re subject to an agreed two year business plan. I know we’re all speculating but maybe the restrictions within that business plan are subject to review during the summer. Maybe any potential variation is dependent upon what league we’re playing in. Maybe this year, unlike previous years, because of that business plan and any potential variation the club are waiting to see what division we’ll be playing in before setting prices.

The simple fact is that none of us know the reason for the delay but we all probably have our own favourite theories. At the end of the day though, whilst frustrating (because we all want to know everything and we want to know now) as @ilkleyram is saying - it doesn’t really matter to us supporters. We know we’ve got a club and we know season tickets will go on sale eventually. It might just mean we’ll only have three months in which to renew (and possibly no early bird offer) rather than the usual six months. 

[Kathcairns]

48 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

It’s not a normal season because we’re subject to an agreed two year business plan. I know we’re all speculating but maybe the restrictions within that business plan are subject to review during the summer. Maybe any potential variation is dependent upon what league we’re playing in. Maybe this year, unlike previous years, because of that business plan and any potential variation the club are waiting to see what division we’ll be playing in before setting prices.

The simple fact is that none of us know the reason for the delay but we all probably have our own favourite theories. At the end of the day though, whilst frustrating (because we all want to know everything and we want to know now) as @ilkleyram is saying - it doesn’t really matter to us supporters. We know we’ve got a club and we know season tickets will go on sale eventually. It might just mean we’ll only have three months in which to renew (and possibly no early bird offer) rather than the usual six months. 

I do think that after years of being a season ticket holder there should be an early bird offer, especially in these hard financial times. Every penny saved counts to a lot of fans.

[Tamworthram]

13 minutes ago, Kathcairns said:

I do think that after years of being a season ticket holder there should be an early bird offer, especially in these hard financial times. Every penny saved counts to a lot of fans.

As a season ticket holder myself since the BBG days I’m not disagreeing with you and hope there is an early bird offer. I guess, playing devils advocate, you could say every penny counts for the club as well given the trauma it’s been through and the fact that it also faces  challenges during these difficult Financial Times.

DC seems a decent chap who cares about the fans. I would assume, in an ideal world, he would like to still offer an early bird discount and avoid significant prices increases. But he has to balance that against the need to accommodate increasing costs the club faces and funding the club to return us to the level in the pyramid we all want to see.

[Kathcairns]

59 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

As a season ticket holder myself since the BBG days I’m not disagreeing with you and hope there is an early bird offer. I guess, playing devils advocate, you could say every penny counts for the club as well given the trauma it’s been through and the fact that it also faces  challenges during these difficult Financial Times.

DC seems a decent chap who cares about the fans. I would assume, in an ideal world, he would like to still offer an early bird discount and avoid significant prices increases. But he has to balance that against the need to accommodate increasing costs the club faces and funding the club to return us to the level in the pyramid we all want to see.

I can see your point, but familys bringing children and grandchildren will start to feel the pinch and these are the future fans who the club will need in years to come, when we are not here, well me anyway.😁

[ThePrisoner]

1 hour ago, Kathcairns said:

I do think that after years of being a season ticket holder there should be an early bird offer, especially in these hard financial times. Every penny saved counts to a lot of fans.

Are we not already rewarded with the discount for being multiyear season ticket holders?

[ram59]

There might not be an 'early bird' offer as in early renewals getting a cheaper price than later renewals, but that might mean that everybody gets the 'early bird' price. In other words the club could say that all season tickets have increased by a certain percentage based on last year's early bird price and that they're not charging a premium on later renewals.

I would have thought that it would be advantageous to both the club and the EFL to be able to get an early indication of next season's income, by allowing early season ticket renewals. This would assist in reviewing next season's business plan.

[Tamworthram]

28 minutes ago, ThePrisoner said:

Are we not already rewarded with the discount for being multiyear season ticket holders?

Good point. There was certainly a different price last season (but obviously no early bird discount) dependent on how many years you’d been a season ticket holder.

[uttoxram75]

3 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

The simple fact is that none of us know the reason for the delay

The club will know the reason for the delay.

If it is due to the EFL, then maybe they are loathe to upset them by stating that.

If its the club's decision then they should make a brief statement to announce when ST's will be available.

 

[Tamworthram]

6 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

The club will know the reason for the delay.

If it is due to the EFL, then maybe they are loathe to upset them by stating that.

If its the club's decision then they should make a brief statement to announce when ST's will be available.

 

I agree it would be great if they could release some kind of statement (even if it’s down to the EFL they could simply say tickets details won’t be confirmed until the end of the season without giving a reason). But, whilst I’d like to know, failing to release such a statement wouldn’t be the greatest crime. I’m happy to speculate along with others but I’m not going to lose any sleep over the radio silence.

[duncanjwitham]

3 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

It’s not a normal season because we’re subject to an agreed two year business plan. I know we’re all speculating but maybe the restrictions within that business plan are subject to review during the summer. Maybe any potential variation is dependent upon what league we’re playing in. Maybe this year, unlike previous years, because of that business plan and any potential variation the club are waiting to see what division we’ll be playing in before setting prices.

It could be as simple as, given the restrictions, there's just no major rush to get money in early.  In a normal season, we'd want to get the money in early, so we can budget and spend it on players, and we'd have to live with setting prices when we don't know what league we're in.  If we *know* we won't be spending on transfers, we can wait until we do know and price them accordingly.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

I assume that the EFL business plan runs from one period to another.  I assume from the takeover finalisation date.  As such, it could be that any income generated now would be classed as income for the first year of the plan and would not be considered in next years budget.  Kind of cack handed thing they would do. Therefore, there may be no incentive as a club to release anything for sale until after a certain date or a large percentage of bargaining power disappears into the ether.

[Gaspode]

Never start from the assumption that the EFL are being malicious - always begin by considering the level of their incompetence....

[FlyBritishMidland]

I can’t believe we’re now blaming the EFL for season tickets not being on sale 🤷‍♂️.  It makes no sense.  We’re not the only ones as at least Burton, Wycombe and Portsmouth are also to confirm details.