The Conor enigma

[Wolfie20]

7 hours ago, Rambam said:

What a load of BS. 
Two assists at Milton Keynes, if you count the free kick ex Ram BJ headed on to Collins. 
He also assisted Dobbin for the goal which was wrongly disallowed. 
Get off his back! 

Totally agree. For the minutes played his contribution with regard to goals and assists far outweighs that of any of our other midfielders. Whilst I hope Sibley will come good and realise his potential, the constant clamouring by certain posters for his inclusion in the starting line up is clearly without justification.

[May Contain Nuts]

5 hours ago, angieram said:

Strangely enough, I think Hourihane is now playing at his best since he came to the club. I was very critical of him early doors, despite his goals.

But he seems to be working much harder on the defensive side of his game now and that's allowing Bird to get forward more too. Connor has better crossing but Bird sees those killer through balls. 

I agree he's started playing better (who wouldn't agree !?), but whether it's because he's working harder or he's simply getting fitter is up for debate I think. Having not been to any away games I can't really comment on how much he's moved around in them though!

If you look how much football he's played (or rather hasn't played) in recent seasons...
17/18 3,431  (equiv. 38.1 full games)
18/19 3,496  (equiv. 38.8 full games)
19/21 2.032  (equiv. 22.6 full games)
20/21 1,947  (equiv. 21.6 full games)
21/22 1,626  (equiv. 18.1 full games)

22/23 so far - 1,446' (equiv. 16.1 full games) for the season so is well on course to eclipse recent amounts.

*club appearances only

...I don't think it's any surprise he's had a slow start here, nor that his form is picking up with playing more games?

[Magicman]

He changes games .... but we need a Knight, Bird, Smith to support him. 

[BramcoteRam84]

Probably put his best few games together. He’s working hard, starting to influence the game more. His left foot is a wand as he demonstrated on Saturday, when everyone is back hit we have some good options in middle of the park, just need more depth in the wide areas both defence and attack.

[Carl Sagan]

3 hours ago, DRBee said:

You don't rate Hourihan's corners then?

Do you?  It can be hard to tell sometimes if a reply is serious or a joke (sorry)!

Being serious, Sibley's corners are far more effective. And there was a time when Bird took a decent corner too.

[Ramarena]

Enigma is the cheat code ?

[Ghost of Clough]

16 hours ago, Wolfie20 said:

Totally agree. For the minutes played his contribution with regard to goals and assists far outweighs that of any of our other midfielders. Whilst I hope Sibley will come good and realise his potential, the constant clamouring by certain posters for his inclusion in the starting line up is clearly without justification.

Far outweighs?

Minutes per goal contribution:

Hourihane: 289

Sibley: 335

Bird: 354

 

He takes every freekick and corner when he's on the field, so he should be higher. If either Bird or Sibley were given set piece duty anywhere near as much as Hourihane they'd certsinly have a higher contribution rates than Hourihane.

Under Rosenior, Bird wouldn't push up much further than the halfway line.

Sibley has been in and out of the team, played LWB, DM, CM, AM, LW, RW, and SS, so hasn't been able to settle into a role this season .

[DRBee]

22 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

Do you?  It can be hard to tell sometimes if a reply is serious or a joke (sorry)!

Being serious, Sibley's corners are far more effective. And there was a time when Bird took a decent corner too.

Have you watched recent games????? My question is totally serious and yes i think he makes a contribution. His corners seem better than Birds were last season for example.

[Srg]

If you’re including a player purely for a set piece here and there then you’re not in for a good time. 

[kevinhectoring]

On 14/11/2022 at 20:22, Carl Sagan said:

Sibley's corners are far more effective. And there was a time when Bird took a decent corner too.

Every player kicks the ball differently. If you’re a defender or gk you want the same player taking every corner and hitting it the same way. You get used to the ball flight, pace, the same way the attacker has got used to it on the training ground. So why don’t we mix it up more ? 
 

At Torquay how many good corners were defended against us with ease by a poor national league defence ?

[Caerphilly Ram]

23 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Every player kicks the ball differently. If you’re a defender or gk you want the same player taking every corner and hitting it the same way. You get used to the ball flight, pace, the same way the attacker has got used to it on the training ground. So why don’t we mix it up more ? 
 

At Torquay how many good corners were defended against us with ease by a poor national league defence ?

Is the answer 6? Though I’m not sure I get your point about Hourihane’s set piece delivery in a game he didn’t play? 

If you mean having a couple of set piece takers and rotating them then I agree, alternate between outswinging and inswinging corners etc to keep the opposition guessing.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Caerphilly Ram

[kevinhectoring]

8 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Is the answer 6?

Raised a smile  

yeah my basic point was we should mix it up however good Hourihane is. Fozzy might now be our best crosser in percentage terms now Byrne is gone. Sibley hits corners flat, they tend always to be the same shape so the defender gets the gist. You also need the odd short corner here and there and more imagination from the runners, cue a giff of the Forest blitzkrieg corner. 
 

Another set piece frustration is: we should always have two men over a free kick in shooting range, and both should get themselves in motion in the keeper’s line of sight. Maybe managers shy away from that because it looks so rank when it goes wrong but you want uncertainty in the wall and for the gk 

[Anag Ram]

47 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Every player kicks the ball differently. If you’re a defender or gk you want the same player taking every corner and hitting it the same way. You get used to the ball flight, pace, the same way the attacker has got used to it on the training ground. So why don’t we mix it up more ? 
 

At Torquay how many good corners were defended against us with ease by a poor national league defence ?

It’s not the corner that’s the issue.

No one in Derby’s team can run, jump and head a football.

They all seem to want to head it from a standing start. It’s no surprise that they are beaten with such regularity or that on the few occasions they do succeed, the ball goes upwards not goalwards.

 

[Crewton]

Too many of Hourihane's corners are "floaty", which either means the attacker has to provide all of the power and direction whilst under pressure from defenders, or the keeper has an easy sight of it if it's too close to him. 

Sibley's are usually hard and flat, fired into the 6 yard area. Those are much easier to attack and much harder to defend. 

We do need a mix of corner styles, but whenever the taker hits the right trajectory, he'll have the defence in trouble however many times he does it. 

[kevinhectoring]

48 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Sibley's are usually hard and flat, fired into the 6 yard area. Those are much easier to attack and much harder to defend.

Yes floaty crosses present less danger. But don’t see why hard and flat is hard to defend. Especially after you’ve seen one or two come in. Not knowing what the shape is is hard to defend. Sibley hits them out to in, so pretty straight maybe just a little fade. More shape is much harder to defend because you have to judge the swing and the attacker knows the crosser. Byrne’s crosses, whippy and with pace were hard to defend. We just needed Stevie Howard in the box. 

[Crewton]

9 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Yes floaty crosses present less danger. But don’t see why hard and flat is hard to defend. Especially after you’ve seen one or two come in. Not knowing what the shape is is hard to defend. Sibley hits them out to in, so pretty straight maybe just a little fade. More shape is much harder to defend because you have to judge the swing and the attacker knows the crosser. Byrne’s crosses, whippy and with pace were hard to defend. We just needed Stevie Howard in the box. 

I agree that the type of corners Byrne would often take were particularly troublesome, but I've seen it so often - when a player gets the pace and trajectory right, even if the trajectory is flatter, they're hard to defend because most teams are slow (and reluctant) to adjust their defensive approach to set pieces during a game. Of course, beating the near post defenders or getting a flick on is equally important. 

[Crewton]

I've just noticed that we have the 5th highest xG for setpieces in the division currently. I wonder where we stood under LR? Gut feel is that we'd have been lower, but I don't have the figures to say for sure. 

[U.M.]

51 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

We just needed Stevie Howard in the box. 

or Ian Taylor ?

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

7 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

It’s not the corner that’s the issue.

No one in Derby’s team can run, jump and head a football.

They all seem to want to head it from a standing start. It’s no surprise that they are beaten with such regularity or that on the few occasions they do succeed, the ball goes upwards not goalwards.

 

Showing my age now but years ago Southampton had a guy called Ron Davies at No.9 Boy could he head a ball. The thing I remember when I was watching Derby at the Dell was that he started his run outside the box for every corner. By the time he reached the ball he was at full height in the air approching the ball like a missile. Absolutely leathel in the air. Your point about the standing start took me back.

Edited November 16, 2022 by The Scarlet Pimpernel

[Reggie Greenwood]

5 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Showing my age now but years ago Southampton had a guy called Ron Davies at No.9 Boy could he head a ball. The thing I remember when I was watching Derby at the Dell was that he started his run outside the box for every corner. By the time he reached the ball he was at full height in the air approching the ball like a missile. Absolutely leathel in the air. Your point about the standing start took me back.

Newcastle had a similar CF in the 70’s Wyn Davies. Brute of a player