Gotta love Extinction Rebellion

[Stive Pesley]

45 minutes ago, Archied said:

It’s called playing the same game in return and it’s what happens when people figure out how it’s played , and yes I see it as a cult having watched the unhinged emotionaly on the edge state of the people protesting and doing interviews as spokesperson s

but it's a "well won tactic that is losing it's power" - you said so yourself.

Try making only positive posts for 24 hours, starting now. Me and you - come on - let's do this! We can do it ! ?

[cstand]

On 17/10/2022 at 20:10, Stive Pesley said:

There aim is to raise awareness of the government granting new oil drilling licenses, despite having pledged not to. It's a start no?

What's the alternative to not breaking our reliance on oil? Either the oil runs out and we're screwed, or the planet heats up and ecosystems collapse and we're screwed

 

Saudis are cutting oil production to increase the price of oil, Biden response they will be consequences.

The Saudis are now thinking of joining the Brics countries so could cut off supply to the UK.

This is why we need new oil licenses.

 

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, cstand said:

Saudis are cutting oil production to increase the price of oil, Biden response they will be consequences.

The Saudis are now thinking of joining the Brics countries so could cut off supply to the UK.

This is why we need new oil licenses.

 

Nah, what we need to do is ban the Saudi Royal Family from Harrods. Hit them where it hurts. ?

 

[Ram-Alf]

26 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Nah, what we need to do is ban the Saudi Royal Family from Harrods. Hit them where it hurts. ?

 

And relegate Newcastle?

[cstand]

6 hours ago, Crewton said:

Nah, what we need to do is ban the Saudi Royal Family from Harrods. Hit them where it hurts. ?

 

If the Saudis join up with the Bric countries create their own currency to trade in oil and other commodities  we will be forced to deal with them on their terms you will be glad to know.

 

https://m.economictimes.com/news/economy/policy/brics-explores-creating-new-reserve-currency/amp_articleshow/94628034.cms

Edited October 20, 2022 by cstand

[Crewton]

9 hours ago, cstand said:

If the Saudis join up with the Bric countries create their own currency to trade in oil and other commodities  we will be forced to deal with them on their terms you will be glad to know.

 

https://m.economictimes.com/news/economy/policy/brics-explores-creating-new-reserve-currency/amp_articleshow/94628034.cms

I'm not sure how a reserve currency based on that particular basket of currencies would fare, since it includes some pretty volatile ones, but if anything it reinforces the need for Britain to become more independent in respect of our energy needs and less reliant on finite resources. 

It's interesting though to observe how the prospective Russia/Saudi/Iran inter-relationship develops, considering the latter two are mortal enemies and the Iranians are supplying Russia with arms. 

[Archied]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

I'm not sure how a reserve currency based on that particular basket of currencies would fare, since it includes some pretty volatile ones, but if anything it reinforces the need for Britain to become more independent in respect of our energy needs and less reliant on finite resources. 

It's interesting though to observe how the prospective Russia/Saudi/Iran inter-relationship develops, considering the latter two are mortal enemies and the Iranians are supplying Russia with arms. 

To me it seems the sensible thing is to have to deal with both the short term and the long term ,

we really need to be as unrelient on others for our energy as soon as poss , this in my eyes means using our own fossil fuel reserves and nuclear whilst pushing on with development of sustainable energy as fast as we can too and i mean developed, owned and built in the uk for the uk with the spin off we may also become exporters of this tech , anybody remember when we were and inavative inventive manufacturing country?

of course I will be slated for this view but it is the most sensible and positive way forward I can see,

niether the just stop movements or the carry on with fossil fuel forever as if there’s no problems in terms of planet and running out at some point mob make any realistic sense to me ,

it’s just more of the unbalanced all or nothing mentality that’s infested every area of our lives politically and culturally these days ?‍♂️

[cstand]

 

[FindernRam]

I loved the German attitude to the protesters in the VW showroom who glued themselves to the floor. They put out the lights, switched off the heating, locked the doors and went home for the weekend.

Poor dears were really upset no-one gave them water food or sanitation capability.

[BaaLocks]

TalkTV (OK, I get it, hardly the levelest of playing fields) just asked Twitter what Rishi's first area of focus should be as PM. This is what they said - the fictional immigrant crisis still getting twenty times the votes against the environment.

In other news, this village in Wales is being decommissioned as the battle to save it against rising sea levels has been conceded as impossible to maintain. I am minded to believe that, even here, there was at least one person who still thought immigration was a bigger problem.

Just how else are people going to get the attention needed to do something about this? Really, if throwing soup at pictures is not the answer they how - just how - can they get their point across? Greta tries it and she's a whining child, Charlie v3 does it and he's an old nincompoop.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220506-the-uk-climate-refugees-who-wont-leave

[Archied]

1 hour ago, BaaLocks said:

TalkTV (OK, I get it, hardly the levelest of playing fields) just asked Twitter what Rishi's first area of focus should be as PM. This is what they said - the fictional immigrant crisis still getting twenty times the votes against the environment.

In other news, this village in Wales is being decommissioned as the battle to save it against rising sea levels has been conceded as impossible to maintain. I am minded to believe that, even here, there was at least one person who still thought immigration was a bigger problem.

Just how else are people going to get the attention needed to do something about this? Really, if throwing soup at pictures is not the answer they how - just how - can they get their point across? Greta tries it and she's a whining child, Charlie v3 does it and he's an old nincompoop.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220506-the-uk-climate-refugees-who-wont-leave

Perhaps the sea is not rising , maybe we are sinking under the weight ,,

do you think the immigrant crisis is fictional ?

Edited October 24, 2022 by Archied

[BaaLocks]

52 minutes ago, Archied said:

Perhaps the sea is not rising , maybe we are sinking under the weight ,,

do you think the immigrant crisis is fictional ?

I think the two are likely more linked than we would like to imagine. At the moment we have around 30,000 people crossing the channel every year in boats. They mainly do this because we have been effective at cutting off other routes (under trains, in the back of lorries etc). 30,000 is a drop in the ocean (and one that a country of 65m people could accomodate without even feeling the draft). And, if I may say, it is one we are willing to accept having allowed more than 100k of Ukranian refugees (OK - those ones weren't brown, I'll give you that, so maybe a little easier for us to accept as potentially living here).

But the broader question is not how many but more why - nobody pays a criminal thousands of pounds to cross a cold, dark sea in a dinghy unless they are really desperate. And while many might be coming here now because of fleeing civil wars and conflicts (many that have climate at their heart - Somalia being a very good example) you can be sure that when the crops start failing in a few years it won't be a few in a dinghy that will not be wanting to get here but having to get here. We are fortunate, we live in a part of the world that can likely tolerate some degree of climate impact - it will change things but we can still survive. For millions - maybe billions - that won't be the case and so they will have no choice, as humans have done for millenia before them, but to flee to where the food is. 

So the two are linked, and we'd better start planning for it - one way or the other.

[Archied]

38 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

I think the two are likely more linked than we would like to imagine. At the moment we have around 30,000 people crossing the channel every year in boats. They mainly do this because we have been effective at cutting off other routes (under trains, in the back of lorries etc). 30,000 is a drop in the ocean (and one that a country of 65m people could accomodate without even feeling the draft). And, if I may say, it is one we are willing to accept having allowed more than 100k of Ukranian refugees (OK - those ones weren't brown, I'll give you that, so maybe a little easier for us to accept as potentially living here).

But the broader question is not how many but more why - nobody pays a criminal thousands of pounds to cross a cold, dark sea in a dinghy unless they are really desperate. And while many might be coming here now because of fleeing civil wars and conflicts (many that have climate at their heart - Somalia being a very good example) you can be sure that when the crops start failing in a few years it won't be a few in a dinghy that will not be wanting to get here but having to get here. We are fortunate, we live in a part of the world that can likely tolerate some degree of climate impact - it will change things but we can still survive. For millions - maybe billions - that won't be the case and so they will have no choice, as humans have done for millenia before them, but to flee to where the food is. 

So the two are linked, and we'd better start planning for it - one way or the other.

Ahh the old it’s a colour thing ,,,,,, drop in the ocean? Don’t know if you have noticed but this country does not have enough homes for those already here , enough schools , enough doctors , dentists ect ect ect ect ,, as for the rest of your apocalypse guff it’s just laughable hysteric’s 

[BaaLocks]

33 minutes ago, Archied said:

Ahh the old it’s a colour thing ,,,,,, drop in the ocean? Don’t know if you have noticed but this country does not have enough homes for those already here , enough schools , enough doctors , dentists ect ect ect ect ,, as for the rest of your apocalypse guff it’s just laughable hysteric’s 

I doubt either of us will be here when this all comes to pass - it's 50-100 years down the road. Which is why very few want to care much about it here and now - and I do get that point.

The colour point is pretty darned evident - forgive me if I missed them but I don't remember too many Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq or Yemen flags flying in sympathy when their particular conflicts were/are in full flow. As I've said on the other thread, I'm not going there any more on that one.

But if you genuinely believe that the whole population between the tropics is going to sit there and just say "oh well, our crops have failed, we have no water, we've got nothing to live on. I guess that's all our fault then" then I would say that is equally laughable hysterics (no need for an apostrophe). And when they do come, we're going to be need something more than a couple of ladies behind a desk at St Pancras asking if they've got anywhere to sleep.

And, to answer your initial point, that is an immigration crisis. What we have here and now are a few fellow human beings who need help - not being treated like under classling criminals for no other reason than they happened to be born somewhere a little less fortunate than you or me. That, by any definition, is not a crisis.

Edited October 24, 2022 by BaaLocks

[Archied]

4 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

I doubt either of us will be here when this all comes to pass - it's 50-100 years down the road. Which is why very few want to care much about it here and now - and I do get that point.

The colour point is pretty darned evident - forgive me if I missed them but I don't remember too many Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq or Yemen flags flying in sympathy when their particular conflicts were/are in full flow. As I've said on the other thread, I'm not going there any more on that one.

But if you genuinely believe that the whole population between the tropics is going to sit there and just say "oh well, our crops have failed, we have no water, we've got nothing to live on. I guess that's all our fault then" then I would say that is equally laughable hysterics (no need for an apostrophe). And when they do come, we're going to be need something more than a couple of ladies behind a desk at St Pancras asking if they've got anywhere to sleep.

And, to answer your initial point, that is an immigration crisis. What we have here and now are a few fellow human beings who need help - not being treated like under classling criminals for no other reason than they happened to be born somewhere a little less fortunate than you or me. That, by any definition, is not a crisis.

I’m 100% sure there are people who see colour as an issue but I’m also sure the majority who have concerns with immigration don’t care what colour immigrants are , I will ask you the simple question of what is your cut off number ? Do you have one? Do you believe we let in in infinite numbers with finite space and resources?

[BaaLocks]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

I’m 100% sure there are people who see colour as an issue but I’m also sure the majority who have concerns with immigration don’t care what colour immigrants are , I will ask you the simple question of what is your cut off number ? Do you have one? Do you believe we let in in infinite numbers with finite space and resources?

Now, today: we take in as many as have a valid reason to be here (risk of persecution, asylum). I don't think we need to cap that, we can live with the likely numbers. For all others, from whatever country or background, we set up a fair and reasonable points based system (or - bit of controversy - re-enter the EU and work with them on fair policy). It's probably a bit off track given the thread but still.

The future: Well, I guess the point is whether we want to work to limit the impact of climate change and leave many parts of the world able to support populations, or continue to work on a model of short term greed and leave our descendants to live with the consequence. If we can do that properly then - in the most basic form - people can remain where they live because they can. If we don't then quotas and application processes will be anything but the thing to be worrying about.

[Archied]

7 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Now, today: we take in as many as have a valid reason to be here (risk of persecution, asylum). I don't think we need to cap that, we can live with the likely numbers. For all others, from whatever country or background, we set up a fair and reasonable points based system (or - bit of controversy - re-enter the EU and work with them on fair policy). It's probably a bit off track given the thread but still.

The future: Well, I guess the point is whether we want to work to limit the impact of climate change and leave many parts of the world able to support populations, or continue to work on a model of short term greed and leave our descendants to live with the consequence. If we can do that properly then - in the most basic form - people can remain where they live because they can. If we don't then quotas and application processes will be anything but the thing to be worrying about.

And there you have it , we don’t need to cap numbers , we take in as many people as come to Britain, no cap , no matter the fact that we can’t house and support the numbers we have here already whether immigrants or born here , no matter we are a small island that stays the same size not dr who s tardis, I would suggest  it’s you who are peddling a fiction 

[Stive Pesley]

11 hours ago, Archied said:

I’m 100% sure there are people who see colour as an issue but I’m also sure the majority who have concerns with immigration don’t care what colour immigrants are

Agreed. And no one is accusing you of having an issue with an immigrants colour.

The fact remains though that the UKs response to the Ukrainian crisis has been one of the most openly racist policies of my lifetime

I have good friends in Leicester whose kids have recently left home so they applied to house a Ukrainian refugee.

They were not only paid by the government to do this, but they also saw that the lady they took in was fast tracked for job interviews, offered free training for jobs that she had no skills in, and then once she got a job was offered subsidised housing

She was fleeing a warzone. The UK wasn't the "first safe country she passed through".  No different to many refugees from Africa or Asia.

There is no other explanation for the disparity in treatment. 

 

[BaaLocks]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

And there you have it , we don’t need to cap numbers , we take in as many people as come to Britain, no cap , no matter the fact that we can’t house and support the numbers we have here already whether immigrants or born here , no matter we are a small island that stays the same size not dr who s tardis, I would suggest  it’s you who are peddling a fiction 

There are 30k a year trying at the moment, a percentage of those are economic but many are fleeing persecution. If we opened up a legal process for many of those to apply the boats would no longer be needed for them and we could do the right thing. The boats are partly our fault, we give the smugglers the opportunity.

As for being a small island being expected to behave like a Tardis - calm down on the hyperbole on that one. As for not being able to support, we perfectly can but we just choose to continue to elect parties who implement rafts of policies that do exactly the opposite.

[Norman]

10 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Agreed. And no one is accusing you of having an issue with an immigrants colour.

The fact remains though that the UKs response to the Ukrainian crisis has been one of the most openly racist policies of my lifetime

I have good friends in Leicester whose kids have recently left home so they applied to house a Ukrainian refugee.

They were not only paid by the government to do this, but they also saw that the lady they took in was fast tracked for job interviews, offered free training for jobs that she had no skills in, and then once she got a job was offered subsidised housing

She was fleeing a warzone. The UK wasn't the "first safe country she passed through".  No different to many refugees from Africa or Asia.

There is no other explanation for the disparity in treatment. 

 

I have a feeling gender plays a big part.