Rooney shouldn’t be allowed to bring in the players he wants

[Ram-Alf]

26 minutes ago, RIMBAUD said:

Then we should do the same shouldn’t we. 
 

if it’s good enough for them …

If memory serves me right, Jim Smith would interview players before signing them, Education, Family life, Social life and all that Ilk.

Today it's about everything a footballer does on the pitch and off it, It's data data data.

Now here's a question, Man Untds multi millionaires got walloped last night, They appear not to like on how they play, Perform, Spoken to or about...how do you manage a group like that?

Then you look at Liverpool who handed them that walloping, Who does what you'd expect players to do irrespective of how much they earn. 

IMO it's all about respect, For yourself, The Manager, The club and the supporters.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

Let's be realistic, Rooney isn't going to be here forever. It is entirely possible that the Everton job comes back up, or some other Premier League/top Championship club could come in next season and nab him at any time.

Rooney says he wants to rebuild Derby County, but lets be honest with ourselves, if the right offer comes in he will take it. That's not a dig at him, that's just the world we live in.

We need to have at least half an eye on what the plan is if that happens, whilst also making sure that whilst Rooney is here he has the tools he needs to do the job.

[SirBrian]

5 hours ago, turbo said:

Might be an unpopular opinion but if the takeover all goes smoothly then I hoping we go about things differently.

The successful model applied by the majority of successfully promoted clubs involves a football director who overseas a team that delivers recruitment based on the clubs blueprint for success. The idea behind this is that if the manager leaves or is shown the door you are not left with a group of players that the next manager doesn’t want so you have to start out all over again, you need to be able to keep consistency if a piece of the cog is taken out of the club.

Whether finances will allow the club to run like this I don’t know

What role did Sam Rush have at the club for he bought plenty of players through his agency long contracts high wages, then all the merry go round of managers we had we had at the club, new manager go and buy more players, could not off load the players the manager did not want for no other championship club would pay the wages!

Wayne as alread said he knows the players he wants so not an hard job, and already impressed with his knowledge of players he has brought to the club, so why waste money on a football director who is not needed.

[Rambalin]

Don't forget Rooney's agent Paul Stretford along with Gary Cook are close to Kirchner.

Stretford runs Triple S sports management (shades of Rush here) he could be heavily involved in incomings. 

[Mucker1884]

3 hours ago, Unlucky Alf said:

You're wealthy enough to appoint a Chef for your meals, The Chef gets to choose what you eat, He serves you Sushi and Salad, You don't like that and tell the Chef you want Pie and Chips, The Chef says he's in charge of cooking...you sack the Chef for failing in your choices.

It's the same with a D.O.F. the Manager HAS to work with the player/s of someone else's choosing, If the D.O.F. gets to choose the Manager then things could work, In England the Manager is the focal point.

Chef de Sushi?

The Finnish Striker?  Played for Ipswich?

... and Newcastle... and Wendies... and Blackburn... and Palace... and... erm... blimey... there's quite a list!  Quite the transfer-whore, innit!

[GB SPORTS]

10 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Chef de Sushi?

The Finnish Striker?  Played for Ipswich?

... and Newcastle... and Wendies... and Blackburn... and Palace... and... erm... blimey... there's quite a list!  Quite the transfer-whore, innit!

You mean this one?

 

[Mucker1884]

8 minutes ago, I DONT MIND said:

You mean this one?

 

As soon as I pressed send, I suddenly had this unsettling yet vague recollection that made me think I should have added us to the list!  ?
I'm not renowned for having a good memory... but I couldn't be 4r5ed to check!  ?

??

[Ram-Alf]

23 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Chef de Sushi?

The Finnish Striker?  Played for Ipswich?

... and Newcastle... and Wendies... and Blackburn... and Palace... and... erm... blimey... there's quite a list!  Quite the transfer-whore, innit!

Isn't Chef de Sushi the one that banged that Bloater in Newcastle named Wendy on their way to see the Queen before the bus broke down with the driver who was Jamaican named Bernie from Ipswich.

[duncanjwitham]

I don't think its about the manager not signing players, it's about someone high up at the club (owner, CEO, director of football, whoever) setting the overall direction of the club.  So what style of football we want to play, what type of system we want to use, what type of players we want to sign, how we intend to integrate the academy players and so on.  And then you simply only appoint managers that want to play that way.  Then you don't get in a mess from alternating between hoofball and footballing managers, and needing a radical squad overhaul each time.

McClaren, Lampard, Cocu and Rooney have all been broadly similar in the way they've gone about things with us - not identical obviously, but some variant of 433/4231 and playing out from the back at least.  You could pretty much interchange any of their squads and they'd have been fairly happy with it.  If just we'd progressed through those 4 managers, we'd have been in nowhere near as much trouble as we are.  It was mixing Rowett and Pearson in that screwed us, as they were so radically different in style.  I'm skipping over Clement as I'm not sure how much say he had in any of the signings, and I'm not really that sure how he wanted us to play anyway.

I'm not saying you have to strictly dictate everything to the manager, you have to give them room to manage, but we don't want the academy developing fullbacks and wingers if the manager is playing wingbacks.  We don't want the manager signing someone like Scott Malone when we have Lowe and Buchanan waiting to break through.  We don't want the manger playing direct football if the academy is producing small, technical players.  We don't want the manager telling Will Hughes he's not wanted because we want to hoof it to Cameron Jerome and so on.

[minesahartington]

I don’t think that would work with Wazzer. He’s carrying the whole club and all the staff at the moment. I think it suits him. Keeps him busy . Keeps his Mrs happy. Doing a good job and not I suspect someone who would just  be a stand-alone coach after this experience. 

[minesahartington]

Not many Directors of Football get sacked for poor performances unfortunately 

[ilkleyram]

51 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I don't think its about the manager not signing players, it's about someone high up at the club (owner, CEO, director of football, whoever) setting the overall direction of the club.  So what style of football we want to play, what type of system we want to use, what type of players we want to sign, how we intend to integrate the academy players and so on.  And then you simply only appoint managers that want to play that way.  Then you don't get in a mess from alternating between hoofball and footballing managers, and needing a radical squad overhaul each time.

McClaren, Lampard, Cocu and Rooney have all been broadly similar in the way they've gone about things with us - not identical obviously, but some variant of 433/4231 and playing out from the back at least.  You could pretty much interchange any of their squads and they'd have been fairly happy with it.  If just we'd progressed through those 4 managers, we'd have been in nowhere near as much trouble as we are.  It was mixing Rowett and Pearson in that screwed us, as they were so radically different in style.  I'm skipping over Clement as I'm not sure how much say he had in any of the signings, and I'm not really that sure how he wanted us to play anyway.

I'm not saying you have to strictly dictate everything to the manager, you have to give them room to manage, but we don't want the academy developing fullbacks and wingers if the manager is playing wingbacks.  We don't want the manager signing someone like Scott Malone when we have Lowe and Buchanan waiting to break through.  We don't want the manger playing direct football if the academy is producing small, technical players.  We don't want the manager telling Will Hughes he's not wanted because we want to hoof it to Cameron Jerome and so on.

Although he didn't - despite the nonsenses about drones, visits to dressing rooms and Pearson complaining about being questioned after a match - set styles of football/systems/players Mel did very clearly implement an overall direction for the club, which has, truth be told, worked much to our benefit in the last two seasons.  You don't get a more direct medium term strategy than 'half the team from the Academy within 5 years' (or whatever it was). 

It made the appointment of Rowett and Pearson and, to some extent, Clement, all the more puzzling in hindsight especially as, once appointed, he couldn't, or didn't, say 'no' when they wanted signings for the short term.

If Kirchner is to become our owner let us hope that he and the manager believe the maxim that the relationship between them both is the most important one in the club

Edited April 20, 2022 by ilkleyram
spelling

[duncanjwitham]

14 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

Although he didn't - despite the nonsenses about drones, visits to dressing rooms and Pearson complaining about being questioned after a match - set styles of football/systems/players Mel did very clearly implement an overall direction for the club, which has, truth be told, worked much to our benefit in the last two seasons.  You don't get a more direct medium term strategy than 'half the team from the Academy within 5 years' (or whatever it was). 

It made the appointment of Rowett and Pearson and, to some extent, Clement, all the more puzzling in hindsight especially as, once appointed, he couldn't, or didn't, say 'no' when they wanted signings for the short term.

If Kirchner is to become our owner let us hope that he and the manager believe the maxim that the relationship between them both is the most important one in the club

The really frustrating thing for me, is that every thing Morris said about "The Derby Way" etc was absolutely right. It's completely the correct way to approach things for a club like ours.  He just then seemed to make every possible decision he could to make sure it never happened.  You can't just say "half of the first team should be academy lads" and expect it to happen, you actually have to have a plan to *make* it happen. The youngsters are clearly good enough (at least this current crop are, you can debate the crop that came through a few years ago), but we blocked their path with expensive signings, appointed managers who didn't want to play them, sold them as soon as the first decent offer came in and so on. 

Obviously I'm not counting forcing yourself into a series of transfer embargoes, and ultimately administration, as a deliberate strategy to push youth players through ?.

[DanS1992]

7 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

Unworkable in majority of cases in English football. 

I have to disagree. It is workable, but only if you find the right man for the job. Just look at Victor Orta at Leeds. Luis Campos at Lille. Monchi at Sevilla.  Pablo Longoria at Marseille.

Now I am not saying to go and pry one of these away from their respective clubs (way out of our league anyway), but all it takes is to find the right individual with the right networks, with a similar footballing philosophy to what Wayne is trying to implement. Not only will it lighten the workload, but IF we find the right individual, we may start seing some sensible transfers for once in a very long time.

I for one believe that the director of football never works in the English game discourse is wrong. Obviously if the director of football is naff (i.e Marcel Brands at Everton when he was there) then of course it isn't going to work. However find the right and competent guy, then it's a whole different story. I would sooner fork out a decent fee/wages on a great DOF than splash the cash of rubbish signings (look where that has got us). Maybe, just maybe  if we take a measured approach for once by hiring competent individual, our dealings in the transfer market may be more successful rather that the hit and miss approach we currently have. ?‍♂️
 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by DanS1992

[Mucker1884]

4 hours ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Isn't Chef de Sushi the one that banged that Bloater in Newcastle named Wendy on their way to see the Queen before the bus broke down with the driver who was Jamaican named Bernie from Ipswich.

err... oh... erm...

 

?‍♂️

 

[Mostyn6]

2 hours ago, DanS1992 said:

have to disagree

Okay I’m sure if it’s workable in the majority of cases in English football, you can name all the successes in ENGLISH FOOTBALL. ?

[Ram-Alf]

3 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

The really frustrating thing for me, is that every thing Morris said about "The Derby Way" etc was absolutely right. It's completely the correct way to approach things for a club like ours.  He just then seemed to make every possible decision he could to make sure it never happened.  You can't just say "half of the first team should be academy lads" and expect it to happen, you actually have to have a plan to *make* it happen. The youngsters are clearly good enough (at least this current crop are, you can debate the crop that came through a few years ago), but we blocked their path with expensive signings, appointed managers who didn't want to play them, sold them as soon as the first decent offer came in and so on. 

Obviously I'm not counting forcing yourself into a series of transfer embargoes, and ultimately administration, as a deliberate strategy to push youth players through ?.

If only you knew how the term "The Derby Way" came about...it was a Marque statement

There's a clue there.

[Rev]

9 hours ago, angieram said:

Signed before we went into administration. Our recruitment for the academy has been exceptional for a long time. 

It has, but I think that's partly because of the excellent work done from Wassall downwards in the Academy.

We have had quite a few recruits recently who've been suggested to us from the club that's released them, so we must appear from the outside as a decent development opportunity for those youngster's maybe not at peak PL level.

Plange, Hector Ingram and Watson to name a few, I'm sure you could name a few more.

Some will work out, some won't, but it keeps the academy sides competitive even if they don't make the first team.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Rev

[angieram]

8 minutes ago, Rev said:

It has, but I think that's partly because of the excellent work done from Wassall downwards in the Academy.

We have had quite a few recruits recently who've been suggested to us from the club that's released them, so we must appear from the outside as a decent development opportunity for those youngster's maybe not at peak PL level.

Plange, Hector Ingram and Watson to name a few, I'm sure you could name a few more.

Some will work out, some won't, but it keeps the academy sides competitive even if they don't make the first team.

Maybe we can use that talent at first team level?

Take Plange for example. He hadn't really settled in the under 23s when Rooney and co took him up to the first team squad. Makes me laugh when people criticise him because all I see is a young man who has gone on an incredible personal journey in under twelve months.

I am convinced Justin Walker is a big part of that ability to develop a player and am really pleased he's in the first team set up now. 

I'm really arguing a bit against myself here because I think Rooney would play a few less academy graduates given choice, just for the match experience that these players bring in.

But I feel confident that we have people at the club who can develop a fair amount of the talent we need if we can continue to attract these sort of youngsters now we have been doubly relegated. ?

[Jubbs]

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/triple-s-sports-and-entertainment-group-ltd/beraterfirma/berater/4216

This is a list of players who are represented by Paul Stretford. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a few of these players be linked if a takeover happens. 

We have already had a few/been linked with a few of these names:

Had:
Baningime
Hepburn-Murphy

Linked: 
Garner
Bachmann