The Administration Thread

[Crewton]

20 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I asked you yesterday if you had any evidence of this whatsoever and got no response. So I'll ask again...

What you are claiming is counter to what every single news outlet has been saying for the last 2 years.  Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence etc etc.

Yeah, I don't understand this claim either. MSD wouldn't be providing further funding to the Administrators imo if they had already doled out two £20m loans with cross-security on the same assets. Or should I say, it would surprise me greatly if it's true. 

[atherstoneram]

41 minutes ago, Big Trav said:

We’ll if you thought quantama were useless before this has thrown a bit F you to all derby fans. I remember being confident. Was told Mike Ashley was PB and the deal suited all creditors. What that must of meant is Ashley offered enough to avoid 15 point deduction but wanted the stadium for free. We’re in a stand-off here and the only person losing this is derby fans. Mel wants his 20 million so he can pay his personal MSD loan off in full. Ashley wants it at the cheapest price possible. The admins clearly want more money and aren’t really working in the best interests of the club or creditors. It’s a messy situation but we all know who is still calling the shots at the club. First name begins with M and second also begins with M. 

There is a certain line that the administrators will have to work to regarding creditors,they can't let it go for a low price and unsecured creditors get nothing. End of season money the club are due to receive from the EFL might be more than what's left over from a bid of £30M which includes the ground. There will also be a point reached when the administrators say they cannot see a viable future for the club and put it out of its misery.

[Alty_Ram]

I know that we understandably are in full meltdown and suspicion mode but a thought occurs to me. Given how lacking in credibility the whole EFL 'fit and proper' test is, could it not be that there is a chance that any interest in the club is just someone hoping to benefit from MM throwing a stadium into the pot to prevent the club folding. I was just thinking of the joker(s) at Wigan who bought the club and immediately threw them under a bus.

I appreciate that a ground is only really worth full value if there is a team playing football in it but is is there anything at all to stop someone just gambling that a benevolent local person of means might want to help set up the club again and can sell them a ready made ground which they acquired for sod all ?

[atherstoneram]

42 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

On the Morris point, Hosking said a few weeks back he didn't have a clue how much money Morris has. That surprised me. In answer to your question, if I was trying to persuade Morris to take a further hit I would use two reasons for him to do that 1) He can afford to lose a few million  and 2) He is a fan and his fellow Rams fans are suffering big time. There is no legal basis that I know of for getting Morris to cough up more but even the moral argument has to be had with him.    

Regarding your couple of points he may have been advised not to put any more money in. He may be a Rams fan but ultimately money comes First in business not sentiment.

[Stive Pesley]

5 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

Regarding your couple of points he may have been advised not to put any more money in. He may be a Rams fan but ultimately money comes First in business not sentiment.

Absolutely - and Ashley/Appleby are business men with zero sentiment for the Rams. They will walk away if the figures don't add up, and they won't shed a tear. The fact Mel does have some sentiment is  their gambit I believe

 

[PistoldPete]

41 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Even if Hosking knew how much money Morris was worth, what makes you think he would communiate it? Morris's worth is not something for Hosking to share.

Points 1) and 2) I agree with you, but no doubt the moral dilemma has been discussed already. The only legal basis available perhaps is for MSD to say we have had enough of this, and appoint an administrative receiver to take control of the stadium. I doubt we are at that point yet though. Other than that, all Q (and us fans) can currently hope is that Morris caves, as I cant see any PB paying more than £35m for a club who almost certainly (at best) will be in L1 next season, with a -15 point starting position. I think the heat was being turned on Morris yesterday, but that is nothing more than speculation from my perspective. 

I havent got more to add, so going to leave this thread for a while until there is some new news from either Q, Morris or a PB of repute.

Ok fair enough. The only other possibility I see is local benefactors  bailing us out but maybe I think this more in hope than expectation. 

[atherstoneram]

3 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Absolutely - and Ashley/Appleby are business men with zero sentiment for the Rams. They will walk away if the figures don't add up, and they won't shed a tear. The fact Mel does have some sentiment is  their gambit I believe

 

If MM had any sentimental feelings towards the club at present i think he would have altered his position. Possibly the love he had for the club has gone.

[TuffLuff]

Just to add to last nights point I was trying to make…

Its not just money that is important, so the idea of how much is in a bid is partly obsolete aslong as there is some to pay creditors and for whatever else.

The big one is strategy, how the club will look in 3 years and what they will do to get to that point. This is why I think we get some bidders spouting like hey have, they want the football club but aren’t really appreciating what that entails.

We don’t want another idiot throwing cash around, that could be worse than the situation were in now. it needs a clear strategy that we can keep to.

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Big Trav said:

We’ll if you thought quantama were useless before this has thrown a bit F you to all derby fans. I remember being confident. Was told Mike Ashley was PB and the deal suited all creditors. What that must of meant is Ashley offered enough to avoid 15 point deduction but wanted the stadium for free. We’re in a stand-off here and the only person losing this is derby fans. Mel wants his 20 million so he can pay his personal MSD loan off in full. Ashley wants it at the cheapest price possible. The admins clearly want more money and aren’t really working in the best interests of the club or creditors. It’s a messy situation but we all know who is still calling the shots at the club. First name begins with M and second also begins with M. 

Big Trav the Msd loan is to Dcfc not a personal loan to Morris. It secured against PPS which limits the possibilities of selling the stadium . 

Morris may have given personal guarantees but that’s a different matter. 
 

anyways he needs to be persuaded to help us out now as we are in deep poo. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

20 minutes ago, Alty_Ram said:

I know that we understandably are in full meltdown and suspicion mode but a thought occurs to me. Given how lacking in credibility the whole EFL 'fit and proper' test is, could it not be that there is a chance that any interest in the club is just someone hoping to benefit from MM throwing a stadium into the pot to prevent the club folding. I was just thinking of the joker(s) at Wigan who bought the club and immediately threw them under a bus.

I appreciate that a ground is only really worth full value if there is a team playing football in it but is is there anything at all to stop someone just gambling that a benevolent local person of means might want to help set up the club again and can sell them a ready made ground which they acquired for sod all ?

In terms of business bros and rich people stuff, I wouldn't be surprised if something like that happens.

I don't think it will in our case, the free stadium would only just make the club viable to buy now, there'd be no extra value to flip it.

[atherstoneram]

1 minute ago, TuffLuff said:

Just to add to last nights point I was trying to make…

Its not just money that is important, so the idea of how much is in a bid is partly obsolete aslong as there is some to pay creditors and for whatever else.

The big one is strategy, how the club will look in 3 years and what they will do to get to that point. This is why I think we get some bidders spouting like hey have, they want the football club but aren’t really appreciating what that entails.

We don’t want another idiot throwing cash around, that could be worse than the situation were in now. it needs a clear strategy that we can keep to.

If we survive and take a hit with a 15 point deduction there will be no chance of new owners throwing the cash around, the EFL will put a ceiling on the salaries we can offer. They will also want an undertaking that the club will be sustainable for the next couple of years at least as they won't want the club to finish up in this position again,neither would the administrators for that matter.

[Big Trav]

49 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I asked you yesterday if you had any evidence of this whatsoever and got no response. So I'll ask again...

What you are claiming is counter to what every single news outlet has been saying for the last 2 years.  Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence etc etc.

If you go back in time. You will find articles about the MSD loans to Derby County LTD. It was secured strictly against the training ground only. Mel used a loan to buy the stadium originally from That dodgy Henry Gabsy and then later took out a loan from MSD which was secured against the stadium. A stadium NOT linked to derby county at all. All in this article ahttps://amp.theguardian.com/football/2021/feb/25/derby-takeover-silence-and-mounting-debts-how-did-it-come-to-this

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

If we survive and take a hit with a 15 point deduction there will be no chance of new owners throwing the cash around, the EFL will put a ceiling on the salaries we can offer. They will also want an undertaking that the club will be sustainable for the next couple of years at least as they won't want the club to finish up in this position again,neither would the administrators for that matter.

We'd be under a punitive "business plan" regardless as a consequence of being in administration, if we exit administration in such a way as to incur a points deduction that business plan is going to be even more restrictive (and punitive).

[Half Fan Half Biscuit]

On 24/12/2021 at 13:45, Ramos said:

 

 

 

 

Totally confused by all this.

In a recent update didn't one of the MPs say the stadium wasn't the issue?

Don't think Quantuma would make good estate agents. Many house put on the market are advertised at "offers over £x".

Couldn't they have told bidders the base price was £50m including stadium - don't bother if you're not going to come in with a figure less than that? Would have saved a lot of time and effort (and admin fees).

And wasn't the original Binnie bid near that anyway in that they were prepared to lease the stadium and sort it out later?

And didn't they have someone lined up on 24 December some 3 months ago so why are the farting around still trying to get acceptable bids? 

[RoyMac5]

32 minutes ago, Alty_Ram said:

I know that we understandably are in full meltdown and suspicion mode but a thought occurs to me. Given how lacking in credibility the whole EFL 'fit and proper' test is, could it not be that there is a chance that any interest in the club is just someone hoping to benefit from MM throwing a stadium into the pot to prevent the club folding. I was just thinking of the joker(s) at Wigan who bought the club and immediately threw them under a bus.

I appreciate that a ground is only really worth full value if there is a team playing football in it but is is there anything at all to stop someone just gambling that a benevolent local person of means might want to help set up the club again and can sell them a ready made ground which they acquired for sod all ?

I think the EFL F&P test are now meant to stop the Wigan thing happening again.

Plus doesn't the PB have to put forward a business plan and show financial means to run the Club for two (?) years?

[atherstoneram]

1 minute ago, Half Fan Half Biscuit said:

Totally confused by all this.

In a recent update didn't one of the MPs say the stadium wasn't the issue?

Don't think Quantuma would make good estate agents. Many house put on the market are advertised at "offers over £x".

Couldn't they have told bidders the base price was £50m including stadium - don't bother if you're not going to come in with a figure less than that? Would have saved a lot of time and effort (and admin fees).

And wasn't the original Binnie bid near that anyway in that they were prepared to lease the stadium and sort it out later?

And didn't they have someone lined up on 24 December some 3 months ago so why are the farting around still trying to get acceptable bids? 

The MP would have no idea and only quoting from what they have received from a source unknown. You should know by now that MP's like to come along and show their support as if they care, then when they know they have no influence on matters lose interest.

[TuffLuff]

3 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

If we survive and take a hit with a 15 point deduction there will be no chance of new owners throwing the cash around, the EFL will put a ceiling on the salaries we can offer. They will also want an undertaking that the club will be sustainable for the next couple of years at least as they won't want the club to finish up in this position again,neither would the administrators for that matter.

You misunderstand ‘throwing cash around’, I’m saying essentially throwing money in to the club to subside running costs. We need a someone to bring I I a sustainable strategy. Not someone who has run it like Mel has in the hope of bringing in Prem money.

 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

2 hours ago, I am Ram said:

Q have said somebody is delaying and trying to undermine the process, what are folks thoughts on this, I'm trying to catch up. 

Probably Ashley by saying they haven't heard from Q for 2 months.

Whereas Q are saying they set out a timeline and if someone isn't sticking to that then they aren't at the table as far as they are concerned.

This whole thing strikes me as Q continuously setting deadlines and saying they are close to naming a PB (knowing full well there aren't any credible bidders) in the hope that Mike Ashley makes his move. But, MA being him, he moves when he is ready and not a moment before, if at all.

Just my opinion, but, either, Mike Ashley rides in on Shergar like the white Knight, or we are liquidated.

[Tombo]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

Tombo. Two reasonable questions to ask of you.

1) How might you get Mike Ashley or any PB for that matter to pay say £50m for something they only value at say £35m.

2) How might you persuade Mel Morris to sell the Stadium to the new owner for say £5m rather than the £20m+ he is allegedly holding out for?

If you can give me satisfactory answers to those questions, I too will lose some faith in Quantuma too. But for now, I still think Q are in an impossible position because of Morris. No one willing to pay anything much more than £30/35m, and wanting the stadium included for that, and Morris not budging for whatever his reasons are. I don't like speculation. but I think his reasons are that he doesnt want either Ashley or Appleby Group paying what he thinks at an undervalue (doing him over if you like). Morris will take this to the wall imo, and I have always thought that. Ultimately though, and I am not sure when, I think he will give, because otherwise liquidation will all be on his head (not Quantuma).

[MackworthRamIsGod]

11 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

easy choice for Wayne, he's probably already got yer nan's number