The Administration Thread

[R@M]

8 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

Looked at this couple of weeks ago - you have to fully go through process with EFL first. Although seems like it, dont think far enough along as yet

Agreed re the club/admins, but as fans we can complain about the original decision and appeal, the impartiality of the board, the denials about what was stopping the sale…all the other misinformation…..all to bring more pressure on the EFL and maybe highlight their failures. 

[WestKentRam]

13 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

That’s the really weird thing. As of January 2021, we were officially innocent of basically everything. The EFL had appealed but the result of that appeal wouldn’t be announced until May 2021. So what even is their claim? Or have they changed it since (thus rendering all claims about it being a long-standing one moot)?

I really don't understand the timeline and how this all links together. I sincerely hope Quantuma have it all absolutely straight in their heads and are working not only for the creditors but also in the best interests of the club, that may not exactly be the same thing.

From the League Arbitration Panel - Application by Middlesbrough FC document on the EFL website, from 7th Sept 2020, ie before January 2021 https://www.efl.com/contentassets/c9fc5dceaa7f4b62b81dca0b9e2f7c9d/2020.10.26---decision-on-mfc-redaction.pdf:

On 6 September 2019 MFC commenced arbitration proceedings against EFL contending that EFL had failed to take timely disciplinary action against DCFC. On 29 November 2019 MFC and EFL agreed that this arbitration would be stayed and EFL would commence disciplinary proceedings against DCFC. MFC indicated that if EFL started such disciplinary proceedings, MFC would seek compensation from DCFC pursuant to EFL Reg 92.2.5. In other words, they would apply for compensation on the back of a finding of breach by DCFC.

The galling thing from this is even though we essentially won the case against the EFL, Boro still wanted to appeal against us having won it, that was the same position that the EFL took!

7. The Disciplinary Commission delivered a decision on 24 August 2020 after a five day hearing. They dismissed Charge 1 and found against DCFC only on one of five elements of Charge 2, namely that DCFC had failed adequately to disclose changes to its accounting policies.

8. EFL served Notice of Arbitration on 7 September 2020 to appeal the Disciplinary Commission decision on Charge 2 only.

9. MFC served Notice of Arbitration on 7 September 2020 also to appeal the Disciplinary Commission decision both as to Charge 1 and Charge 2.

The document even has the following statement:

'The result of this somewhat impenetrable procedural position is that the issues before us are as follows:'

So if the lawyers found the arguments so complicated, what hope is there for us mere mortals and our club?

[FlyBritishMidland]

36 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Funny how their statement doesn't mention Boro trying to sue EFL first. then coming to a cosy deal with EFL to sue Derby instead.

Nor does it say that their original claim was against the valuation of PP that the LAP rejected in October 2020.  And as @duncanjwitham has said, when they launched their 2nd claim we actually hadn’t been found guilty of anything and it hadn’t been proven we had breached P&S.

[duncanjwitham]

2 minutes ago, R@M said:

Just a thought, but can Quantuma seek a high court judgement on something as a defendant without a claim actually being submitted? I’m sure it was mentioned Wycombe had not issued any papers? 

They probably don’t even need to reference the specific claims. They can get an injunction to stop the EFL kicking us out, or a clarification on how the insolvency act works to make it clear what they are allowed to do to any and all open claims.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

5 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Absolutely.

I see no positive in this .

Why are others 

No idea. We're done if this is the EFL approach. They know full well why their stance is problematic, they just dont care.

[Ellafella]

6 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

They’re ignoring the law ? This is obscene. Corruption at the EFL? Can’t explain this otherwise 

It’s their rules. Can’t believe they have this much idiotic brass neck. They’re hiding behind “the totality of the 71 other clubs”.

[R@M]

3 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

They probably don’t even need to reference the specific claims. They can get an injunction to stop the EFL kicking us out, or a clarification on how the insolvency act works to make it clear what they are allowed to do to any and all open claims.

I understand that, but the EFL is specifically stating the administration could fight the case in court or through arbitration. But you can’t fight something in court without the plaintiff serving you….therefore only leaving arbitration…which is obviously impartial ? 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

I'd rather liquidate DCFC than give Boro, Wycombe and the EFL the satisfaction of saying they were right. 

duck them. Let it all burn.

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Interesting. I read it the other way round. I had it my head that Middlesbrough would have to satisfy the court that they missed out on promotion due to our over spending. It would be harder for them to satisfy the court if the measure was “beyond all reasonable doubt” rather than “balance of probability”. I can’t imagine any person of sound mind would be convinced that, if they had finished 6th instead of us, they would, beyond all reasonable doubt, have reached the play off final let alone got promoted.

It is of course irrelevant what we think. This can only be a civil case.

Your point is very good and I can see where you are coming from. If you look, I was answering quite a few points in a short period of time and doing it quickly off the top of my head. I was conscious that my responses should be understandable but short and simple. If it is Boro who have to establish the claim and I think you are right on that, then they would have great difficulty in proving it beyond reasonable doubt. So I agree with you.

However we are still left with balance of probabilities and I still think that we will win quite easily with that threshold because there are so many conundrums that can be raised around those issues. We could talk all night of arguments that might be raised around the fantasy football argument and how on earth do you arrive at judgements based on fantasy?

I'll quickly just throw one conundrum in because it's getting late. Gibson seems very irked that Mel Morris gazumped him to sign Waghorn and that seems to suggest he will argue that if Boro had signed him they would have finished above Derby. How do you come to decide on that? Who knows how Waghorn would have done at Boro and would he he have performed as a negative or positive benefit for them? Equally if we had not signed Waghorn, who would we have signed? The answer is "we'll never know (WNK)." Then ask how would WNK have performed for Derby. Because WNK who he was then WNK how well he would have done. We could go on and on with puzzles like that. So how is a court going to decide on them? And could we really expect a court to be able to find on the conundrums? I hope not.

I think we'll be okay in defending the claims because they are simply based on fantasy. A court has to decide on facts.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

Don’t you think this day was in the EFLs diary months ago. Not too close to the transfer window closing but close enough. 
 

What a load of grollocks - it’s making me fall out of love with everything, even the wife.  

[IslandExile]

27 minutes ago, Curtains said:

What the hell is happening 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60253222

Forget it. Not as bad a write up as I first thought.

EFL trying to make out they're the good guys bringing everyone together.  Makes me sick.

Edited February 3, 2022 by IslandExile
Reread article

[duncanjwitham]

4 minutes ago, R@M said:

I understand that, but the EFL is specifically stating the administration could fight the case in court or through arbitration. But you can’t fight something in court without the plaintiff serving you….therefore only leaving arbitration…which is obviously impartial ? 

You can absolutely go to court to get an injunction, or similar, without a plaintiff serving you.  The EFL have given the admins a statement of their position. If that contravenes insolvency law, we get a court to step in and stop it.

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

The BBC are usually impartial but that article really puts the EFL spin on things.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11696/12531316/Derby-county-efl-says-middlesbrough-and-wycombe-legal-claims-are-football-debts-and-calls-for-urgent-mediation
 

Try this on then 

[MaltRam]

Curly Sue just wants us dead because he's a psychopath who wants revenge on MM. He's not bothered either way about getting a penny from us. It's simply about hate. Arbitration will get us nowhere as it'll be 2 vs 1 against.

We have to go for court pronto. Wycombe's case is laughable....Boro's is simply without precedent so is the worrying one. If we lose, football goes haywire as it's open season...so EFL will have to change the rules immediately but that won't be any consolation as we'll likely be liquidated.

Pray for Nick de Marco again.

 

[BramcoteRam84]

Well this is it. The start of the last round of the fight for our survival. The gloves are well and truly off now. EFL have drawn their line in the sand. For Quantuma the only option is to somehow make sure we’ve got enough in the pot to survive the season (maybe this is why they sold Kellyman because the game has clearly changed) and get this through the High Court ASAP. In the meantime MPs Team Derby some of our friends in the media (Colin Murray), our celebrity fans, and the fans protesting, spamming all social media platforms to further bring to everyone’s attention what a spiteful shameless and shambolic organisation the EFL is. 

The administrators have come in for a lot of criticism understandably, but tonight’s EFL statement has shown exactly what they are up against. 
 

This now a race against time and it’s all about cash. Whether or not we have enough funding to come out of this triumphant with a bloody nose or we get beaten to death.

We’ll fight to the end! ??????

[IslandExile]

Just now, Curtains said:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11696/12531316/Derby-county-efl-says-middlesbrough-and-wycombe-legal-claims-are-football-debts-and-calls-for-urgent-mediation
 

Try this on then 

Changed my mind, BBC article not as bad on second reading. But @Curtains have you not seen the EFL statement yourself?

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

Changed my mind, BBC article not as bad on second reading. But @Curtains have you not seen the EFL statement yourself?

Yes I listened to Chris Coles read it out on RD .

What do you make of it.

I don’t like it at all  

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

The BBC are usually impartial but that article really puts the EFL spin on things.

Derby County: EFL rejects attempts by club to use insolvency laws to settle some debts

I see your concern but I would not be too troubled by it. The BBC are only reporting what the EFL has said., not that the corporation agrees with it.

You, I and many others have for many weeks been quoting what the EFL has said and we have agreed with none of it ???

It must be extremely difficult reporting on what the EFL has said.

[Curtains]

Brian Clough used to say on player disagreement.

Well we have a meeting and we talk about it and decide I was right .

That EFK statement is exactly that 

[IslandExile]

Just now, Curtains said:

Yes I listened to Chris Coles read it out on RD .

What do you make of it.

I don’t like it at all  

 

I am appalled by it.

I've posted that I cannot see how an unresolved claim can be considered as a debt.

I have started a thread suggesting those with access to the Administrators press them to take legal action. However, several knowledgeable folks believe that will now happen without us having to campaign for them to do so.

I hope they're right. I fear for our club.