Curtains Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, Mihangel said: It's entirely in keeping with the political stance of the Telegraph that they would take this view - It's a nonsense of course, something even the most hard line free marketeer must admit is that sometimes external regulation is required. I actually think it's a fairly poor article that is entirely about Bourne sharing his conclusion - If you look at his other articles, it would tell you what he's about! I don’t agree with the part of the article that suggests external regulation is not a good thing but it’s a good summary of the facts. I don’t know what Bourne believes other than what he has said in this article about the situation Derby are in at the moment. i-Ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamUltraRam Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Sparkle said: Actually someone like Ashley could go out and buy Burton Albion and move it 8 miles to Derby in league one and start playing in black and white and rename the club Derby Rams with no point deductions! - it’s that easy to actually do it - Blimey, if we're not hated enough already just imagine that Think we're already more hated than Leeds United & that's saying something Edited January 20, 2022 by SamUltraRam MK-Ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoetheRam Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, SamUltraRam said: Who governs the non league pyramid anyway ? Is it still the EFL cause all I hear about is them 'looking after' the 72 clubs If we'd still be governed by the EFL then god help us - & them !!! The FA. So no governance issues at all there... Edited January 20, 2022 by JoetheRam Ramrob, SamUltraRam and i-Ram 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamUltraRam Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, JoetheRam said: The FA. So no governance issues at all there... Oh, they'll be the ones that made us play the U18s against Chorley ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: My understanding of "corrupt" is quite general though, it includes impropriety, immorality and so on. Not saying anyone is crooked. If you can't evidence any of the above, it is libel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 6 minutes ago, SamUltraRam said: Who governs the non league pyramid anyway ? Is it still the EFL cause all I hear about is them 'looking after' the 72 clubs If we'd still be governed by the EFL then god help us - & them !!! No, the EFL has no role in non-legue beyond promotion relegation and criteria like ground suitability. I'm pretty sure the non league pyramid is based on agreements between the league's and then those leagues governing their league, without an overall non league pyramid organisation (EFL equivalent) BUT I could be entirely wrong. SamUltraRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 55 minutes ago, SamUltraRam said: I don't know who decides where a Phoenix club is placed but I think that the other teams have to vote to accept them - plus it has implications for one team from that league missing out or having to play extra games for an additional team in that league. And I don't know whether there would be time to have a Phoenix club set up for the start of next season anyway - it's only 7 months away and next seasons fixtures will be determined long before that & an almost entire new squad would need to be assembled Would it be the FA ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, maxjam said: And what does seeing out the season achieve if we're still stuck between the EFL and Boro/Wycombe claims? We'll never have as much momentum as we'll achieve over the next 12 days or so. We need to ramp up the fact we might not exist in a couple of weeks time to force a resolution, appoint a PB and move on. Carrying on in limbo until the end of the season only delays the inevitable and racks up even more debt. Yeah, this is kind of my point. I understand that the administrators want to kick the can down the road as long as possible but that could be risky for 2 reasons. First, is the debt that is being piled on top of the club. In addition to the administrator costs, the first loan and now the second loan is in the air, we're probably looking at a bill of 15 million all wrapped up. In the grand scheme of things maybe it's not much but if relegation was confirmed that's extra revenue we'd have to find in league 1 with a number of player contracts coming to an end. Second is taking it through either a legal proceeding or arbitration. A legal proceeding is too long and too expensive for us I would imagine, so it's the second choice. But again, the administrators then are on a clock of getting us out of administration before the new season otherwise we're kicked out anyway and we have to win the case to ensure those claims aren't going to be paid out in full. You'd think a settlement (whilst carrying its own risks) would be a quicker and preferred option. maxjam and RadioactiveWaste 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamUltraRam Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 Can't see the EFL lasting in it's current form after all this, whatever the outcome. But I bet they'll still change rules so that this can't happen again saving the clubs who are going to be in deep doodoo next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 22 minutes ago, angieram said: Yes,I do remove the worst of the personal insults but there are so many of them....and then the replies that quote them. We're all like Maybe just leave them up there... I think personal insults against a guy whose actions are destroying the club are fair game myself. MackworthRamIsGod and angieram 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 48 minutes ago, davenportram said: SFL relegated rangers to the bottom under similar circumstances The bottom of their league structure which was only a short drop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Leeds Ram said: Yeah, I agree. I think another thing that makes me nervous too is if the administrators are funding us via more loans (presumably high interest) how does that affect our attractiveness to buyers. That'll be another 7 million owed with a high interest rate that if we went down to league 1 would further add onto our costs. A few thoughts. The administrators powers to borrow I believe are very restricted. It must only be the case that they can if they can evidence it is for the betterment of the existing creditors recovery. They would only borrow with the agreement, and support, of the Preferred bidder who might be the lender, or will be tied in if not. If the Preffered bidder is not lending the money you can can only think it would be MSD against the stadium security, but that might need Morris’s agreements depending on the wording of the existing security/loan documentation. Any loan of £7 million you would think should include reducing some of the instalment indebtedness to Arsenal and Poznań. So the net debt position is probably only increasing maybe by a few million. Just my thoughts. I know nothing more than anyone else on here really. Ramrob, Rammeister, Andicis and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 minute ago, i-Ram said: A few thoughts. The administrators powers to borrow I believe are very restricted. It must only be the case that they can if they can evidence it is for the betterment of the existing creditors recovery. They would only borrow with the agreement, and support, of the Preferred bidder who might be the lender, or will be tied in if not. If the Preffered bidder is not lending the money you can can only think it would be MSD against the stadium security, but that might need Morris’s agreements depending on the wording of the existing security/loan documentation. Any loan of £7 million you would think should include reducing some of the instalment indebtedness to Arsenal and Poznań. So the net debt position is probably only increasing maybe by a few million. Just my thoughts. I know nothing more than anyone else on here really. Thanks for the info Iram ? This is not my area of expertise at all so did not know the administrators needed to get agreement with the preferred bidder ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 I hope we can find funding for this forum if we do end up being forced down the Liquidation / Phoenix Club route. SamUltraRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooFarInToTurnRed Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 One point I haven’t seen made yet is how the performance this season undermines Boro’s argument that bigger budget = better performance in the league. Add 21pts back and we’re currently sitting above Sheffield Utd who have parachute payments supporting a premier league wage bill not a threadbare squad packed with freebies and academy products. Crewton and RandomAccessMemory 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Tup Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 34 minutes ago, nottingram said: I’m probably being stupid but there would be a space available in (probably) League 1 as DCFC wouldn’t be there, so you would surely do one extra promotion spot from every league down to the one FC Derby of County would enter. Dont worry, I’m sure the EFL have fully and seriously considered the permutations. Can’t imagine they’d be so incompetent not to have! If there’s a space in league 1 we should apply for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 6 minutes ago, IslandExile said: I hope we can find funding for this forum if we do end up being forced down the Liquidation / Phoenix Club route. Apparently it costs around £600k to set up a new one from scratch ...so god only knows how much it'll cost to set up a phoenix club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 44 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said: There's got to be a place available in a league for you to apply for though. They're not just going to expand the league by one team to accommodate a phoenix club which has no legal affiliation with Derby County. The North West Counties Football League actually took a stance against Bury joining their league once Covid hit, as laid out here: https://www.nwcfl.com/news-articles.php?id=8263 . Also worth reading https://www.nwcfl.com/news-articles.php?id=8403 for info on the final restructure. If it took a wider restructure of the leagues to get Bury a place at level 10, I'm not sure why you'd be confident of starting at level 6 which has a much less changeable structure. Having lots of away fans doesn't mean you can just force your way in wherever you want. We'd have to wait for someone to drop out. Also of course we'd have to have somewhere to play, but groundshares are allowed so you'd think we would try to do a deal with Don Amott and move in with Mickleover Sport for a while. And just who in the National League makes way for our arrival? At a time when football finances are so tight, would the National League be willing to reject such vast sums of money purely on principal? Derby joining for next season has very little impact on structure, as teams are simply moving up to fill the void left by Derby in the Championship, leaving a gap at a lower level. Whereas Bury re-joining after missing a season would have, especially when their was no relegation or promotion at those levels. Could we not rent PPS off whoever the new owner of the stadium would be? Why would we groundshare when we'd retain a large percentage of our current fanbase, and not dwindle in the low thousands as you seem to suggest. Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 15 minutes ago, SamUltraRam said: Oh, they'll be the ones that made us play the U18s against Chorley ? No one cancelled any FA cup games due to covid or injuries did they - plenty have done before and after in the Championship and premiership who are no doubt ‘Cheating’ to get a perceived better team on the pitch which is all about money not that Middlesbrough did this recently vs Sheffield United - the truth will come out because you are dealing with human beings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooFarInToTurnRed Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 RadioactiveWaste 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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