The future of Pride Park and Moor Farm?

[RoyMac5]

So has Mel had to decide which to keep funding, the Club or the stadium? What would happen if he'd stopped paying the stadium/Moor Farm debts but kept paying the Clubs wages/out-goings?

[Ram-Alf]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So has Mel had to decide which to keep funding, the Club or the stadium? What would happen if he'd stopped paying the stadium/Moor Farm debts but kept paying the Clubs wages/out-goings?

Walking very carefully through this minefield of who owns what and what iffs, If MM fails to pay loans against PP and MF then MSD who have loans against said venues, Then surely MSD steps in and takes over as the charge has been enacted.

But of course I could be miles and miles off

[RoyMac5]

16 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Walking very carefully through this minefield of who owns what and what iffs, If MM fails to pay loans against PP and MF then MSD who have loans against said venues, Then surely MSD steps in and takes over as the charge has been enacted.

But of course I could be miles and miles off 

So has he chosen to put his money in the stadium rather than the club? 

[Ram-Alf]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

So has he chosen to put his money in the stadium rather than the club? 

Guess we'll find out soon enough, Surely must be paying outstanding loans against PP and MF or MSD take over...only an opinion from a multitude of scenarios tho.

[B4ev6is]

16 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

Here is the Companies House information about "charges" on the club:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00049139/charges/xZUaacc51B9bb9w2aEHeJzhqCLg

MSD hold the only two charges (first two on the list), one for Pride Park and one for Moor Farm. As @Charlotte Rampoints out in the Mel vs Dell thread, the other charge was held by Barclays Bank and paid in full on 14th September. If you follow the link this is the fourth item. 

I think this means what happens to the stadium and training ground is now up to MSD. But, given the DCFC Official Statement went out of its way to mention how helpful MSD had been, we can also surmise MSD have a plan, and perhaps their additional financing was to pay off Barclays just before going into admin. 

It was odd that none of this seemed to be mentioned by Maguire on the Radio Derby phone in, but what he did get right was that if (and when?) administration is entered into, no one can buy the club for 28 days as one of the functions of administration is to protect the club from that happening too quickly. 

Who is MSD guys not heard of them is there hope that some come in and take us over.

[Carl Sagan]

17 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

Who is MSD guys not heard of them is there hope that some come in and take us over.

Hey B4. MSD stands for "Michael Saul Dell" and is the investment company owned by this American who founded and is Chairman of Dell Computers. Sometimes on the forum they're referred to as "Dell" instead of "MSD", as in the Dell v Mell thread.

We don't know what their intentions are. MSD has leant money to several football clubs at high interest rates because football tends to lose owners money and these owners find it difficult to borrow elsewhere to keep their clubs going. Given that, I think it highly unlikely MSD would want to step in and own the Rams (and start losing money instead). But we just don't know.

What we do know is that Derby's finances are highly complicated and MSD has a significant stake and role to play.

[Carl Sagan]

36 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Hey B4. MSD stands for "Michael Saul Dell" and is the investment company owned by this American who founded and is Chairman of Dell Computers. Sometimes on the forum they're referred to as "Dell" instead of "MSD", as in the Dell v Mell thread.

We don't know what their intentions are. MSD has leant money to several football clubs at high interest rates because football tends to lose owners money and these owners find it difficult to borrow elsewhere to keep their clubs going. Given that, I think it highly unlikely MSD would want to step in and own the Rams (and start losing money instead). But we just don't know.

What we do know is that Derby's finances are highly complicated and MSD has a significant stake and role to play.

Quoting myself, it's more complicated in that Michael Dell's investment company is MSD Capital, which apparently manages about $10 billion of his $51 billion fortune. However, it is not MSD Capital but rather MSD Partners which has the charge on Pride Park and Moor Farm.

https://www.msdpartners.com/about-msd-partners#overview

My reading of this is that the folk running MSD Capital wanted their own stake in things so got together to create a second investment company of their own in 2009. Sometimes Michael Dell and his family invest through it.

[B4ev6is]

52 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Hey B4. MSD stands for "Michael Saul Dell" and is the investment company owned by this American who founded and is Chairman of Dell Computers. Sometimes on the forum they're referred to as "Dell" instead of "MSD", as in the Dell v Mell thread.

We don't know what their intentions are. MSD has leant money to several football clubs at high interest rates because football tends to lose owners money and these owners find it difficult to borrow elsewhere to keep their clubs going. Given that, I think it highly unlikely MSD would want to step in and own the Rams (and start losing money instead). But we just don't know.

What we do know is that Derby's finances are highly complicated and MSD has a significant stake and role to play.

Oh okay

But maybe owner of del might decide to buy us but appently 50 to 15 different investors instead in buy us 2 or 3 were serious ones according to mel I want to trust him but no longer say I can.

[RoyMac5]

22 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Quoting myself, it's more complicated in that Michael Dell's investment company is MSD Capital, which apparently manages about $10 billion of his $51 billion fortune. However, it is not MSD Capital but rather MSD Partners which has the charge on Pride Park and Moor Farm.

https://www.msdpartners.com/about-msd-partners#overview

My reading of this is that the folk running MSD Capital wanted their own stake in things so got together to create a second investment company of their own in 2009. Sometimes Michael Dell and his family invest through it.

Has it been suggested that Mel is stopping paying them?

[Carl Sagan]

9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Has it been suggested that Mel is stopping paying them?

Not as far as I know. Given the specific plaudits for them in the DCFC statement and the paying off of Barclays just before going into admin (making MSD the only party with a charge), I'm guessing Mel is in better contact with them than he is with Rooney.

[Parsnip]

Regardless of who owns the land/facility, do we assume that as soon as the administration process begins, the academy will cease to operate? All staff sacked, academy over?

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Beetroot said:

Regardless of who owns the land/facility, do we assume that as soon as the administration process begins, the academy will cease to operate? All staff sacked, academy over?

No. Why?

[Parsnip]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No. Why?

To reduce running costs?

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Beetroot said:

To reduce running costs?

Going concern. Can't buy players need to bring them through, Academy cheaper option.

[Carnero]

50 minutes ago, Beetroot said:

Regardless of who owns the land/facility, do we assume that as soon as the administration process begins, the academy will cease to operate? All staff sacked, academy over?

Yes that's my concern. Quick way for administrators to cut £500,000 per month of outgoings ?

[Ghost of Clough]

I would expect the budget to be halved, down to 'entry level Cat 1' levels. That'll be staff let go, hours of training reduced, etc

I doubt the players will be released. Potentially a few offered to other clubs willing to pay the compensation required.

[derby8]

Turn this round to the prospective buyer, assuming there might be one.

The training ground was always leased by DC I believe, that could continue.

PP was owned by DC at one time, seems not now. As buyer would want freehold of PP in any deal, otherwise no deal. Absolutely no deal without the stadium included, even if that takes longer to achieve. Separating the club from the stadium is an extremely bad move that I would simply not accept.

[Papahet]

Bin the luxurious swimming pool and sand pits down at moor farm, sell off half a dozen pitches for land and we might be alright for a month or two.  

#Gottahavefaith

 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

4 minutes ago, Papahet said:

Bin the luxurious swimming pool and sand pits down at moor farm, sell off half a dozen pitches for land and we might be alright for a month or two.  

#Gottahavefaith

 

Or keep the swimming pool and sand pit, build some holiday lets on a few of the pitches and advertise near the beach with communal pool. 

Create a bit of a Centre Parks type thing in Oakwood and we could be generating revenue from it in no time. 

[jono]

Hummmmm does this mean MSD end up owning the stadium and the training facilities. Detached from the Administrators hands. ? In this case I see  the Administration working something like this : 

Sell championship football club on its way to League one, price is hugely dependant on debt level buyer wants to take on.
 

The Admin work for the creditors remember, so it can’t be given away.
 

The buyers are going to need a stadium …. So the deal includes a sign up to buy, pay rent or lease those tangible assets ?

What are MSD going to want for that ? … Either 80 million to buy it as an entity, or so many million per year in rent / lease ? 

Meanwhile Admin keeps us running until Jan transfer window. We know costs are now much reduced, so they can probably afford wait till the Jan window when they sell the players of value to recover more for creditors. …. If we get to that point though, then I guess we are on rapidly sinking ground.

in the end the cost of use of the stadium is the key … 15000 season tickets and general sales amount to 10 million income PA. I suggest that 1/3 of that would be needed to rent an 80 million stadium ..  = 3 million a year .. it does sound proportionally a bit like your mortgage/rent ?  One thing for sure MSD need a return and a football club is the only thing that’s going to provide it at a reasonable level. 
 

I reckon there  are only  4 assets in the club

1) It’s name, brand and golden share 

2) The venue and facilities

3) Goodwill .. in football this is so huge because it’s the fans that you know will pay every week year on year .. it’s confirmed customers / income 

4) The Players .. but they are depreciating assets like lap tops and company cars 

 

Bit of a Jono ramble that one. Just simplifying for myself .. cut out the blurb and complex financial talk .. what are we ? what have we got that makes the machine work ?