The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Rich84]

32 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Many is ambiguous, I have no idea what the actual number is.  According to the following article however Neil Warnock says, "For whatever reason, the majority of the players don’t have vaccinations which I think is wrong." 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/warnock-hits-out-covid-footballers-24702996

FWIW, I don't think the players, or anyone for that matter, should be pressured into having the vaccine.  Furthermore your own private medical history shouldn't be up for discussion if you don't want it to be. 

If you yourself are vaccinated, you are as safe as you can be from covid.  Given that the vaccinated can catch and spread covid at broadly similar rates to the unvaccinated, the unvaccinated are potentially only putting themselves at risk and whilst that may be disruptive for a football team in this case, unless you are going to pin players down and forcably inject them there is little anyone can do. 

I was under the impression from Whitty's presser a couple of months ago that if you are vaccinated you are less likely to not only catch the virus, but less likely to pass it on (presumably because it is in your system for less time and/or is somehow weakened due to the vaccine), in which case you reduce the risk to others, especially the vulnerable. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Rich84
Added highlighted section

[Archied]

5 hours ago, Rich84 said:

I was under the impression from Whitty's presser a couple of months ago that if you are vaccinated you are less likely to not only catch the virus, but less likely to pass it on (presumably because it is in your system for less time and/or is somehow weakened due to the vaccine), in which case you reduce the risk to others, especially the vulnerable. 

Again from personal experience I know far more people who have caught it after double jab than before vaccines ??‍♂️,

the problem with the government and their appointed scientist is it’s pretty near impossible to trust them and their stats ,models and policies that change at the drop of a hat for no apparent reason, the whole kids don’t spread it and not at risk to vaccinating children being just one unsupported flip flop 

 

[Rich84]

19 minutes ago, Archied said:

Again from personal experience I know far more people who have caught it after double jab than before vaccines ??‍♂️,

the problem with the government and their appointed scientist is it’s pretty near impossible to trust them and their stats ,models and policies that change at the drop of a hat for no apparent reason, the whole kids don’t spread it and not at risk to vaccinating children being just one unsupported flip flop 

 

Without knowing specifics, the demographic of your friendship group etc but I'm not surprised at that stat as since people have been double jabbed there's been the Delta variant and virtually no restrictions on socialising and mixing with family members. I believe there's noticeably less concern about personal space when out and about, cinema, sporting events open etc.

Hopefully, those that have had it after being vaccinated have had milder symptoms in line with the claims.

But as you say in your last comment, it is difficult to know what to believe and what to take with a pinch of salt, it is a novel situation for any government to deal with on this scale and having to adapt and learn as they go trying to balance health and well being with the economic issues has no doubt caused policy changes and conflicting approaches at differing times over the last 18 months.

[maxjam]

7 hours ago, Rich84 said:

I was under the impression from Whitty's presser a couple of months ago that if you are vaccinated you are less likely to not only catch the virus, but less likely to pass it on (presumably because it is in your system for less time and/or is somehow weakened due to the vaccine), in which case you reduce the risk to others, especially the vulnerable. 

The delta variant is just as transmissible by vaccinated people as it is unvaccinated - which makes the whole vaccine passport thing null and void imo.  The vaccines do a good job of keeping you out of hospital or getting a visit from the Grim Reaper, but if you catch covid after being jabbed you're just as infectious as an unvaccinated person.

https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/science-and-technology/2021/08/evidence-mounts-that-people-with-breakthrough-infections-can-spread-delta-easily

[maxjam]

Thankfully our kids (one now heading to Uni in Sept) were/are home schooled instead of going to secondary school due to the poor standard of local schools but I would seriously be considering taking them out of school anyway if this gets passed.  Surely there will be a legal challenge before they start vaccinating children en masse without parental consent?

 

 

[Miggins]

12 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Ha. I'd suggest you read up on your history.

As the 1918 Flu Emerged, Cover-Up and Denial Helped It Spread - HISTORY

"Both newspapers and public officials claimed during the flu’s first wave in the spring and early summer of 1918 that it wasn’t a serious threat. The Illustrated London News wrote that the 1918 flu was “so mild as to show that the original virus is becoming attenuated by frequent transmission.” Sir Arthur Newsholme, chief medical officer of the British Local Government Board, suggested it was unpatriotic to be concerned with the flu rather than the war, Arnold says."

Fascinating article! Thanks, Roy. Didn't know that.

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Rich84 said:

Without knowing specifics, the demographic of your friendship group etc but I'm not surprised at that stat as since people have been double jabbed there's been the Delta variant and virtually no restrictions on socialising and mixing with family members. I believe there's noticeably less concern about personal space when out and about, cinema, sporting events open etc.

Hopefully, those that have had it after being vaccinated have had milder symptoms in line with the claims.

But as you say in your last comment, it is difficult to know what to believe and what to take with a pinch of salt, it is a novel situation for any government to deal with on this scale and having to adapt and learn as they go trying to balance health and well being with the economic issues has no doubt caused policy changes and conflicting approaches at differing times over the last 18 months.

It’s beyond life v economy, that’s a simpler equation, it’s also very much life / health versus life/ health on top,

for example time between first and second jabs has been flip flopped at least 3 times obviously to suit supplies and campaigns with no real time scale to have clear data , done by governments with back up from producers later to fit?‍♂️

Edited August 26, 2021 by Archied

[Miggins]

10 hours ago, Archied said:

Spot on ,,, made more easily understandable to those who care to look at the fact that even before the vaccine passport issue this has been a two tier society creating virus , there are those who just cannot have / weren’t given the luxury of feeling threatened by the virus because they HAD to earn a living out and about in the real world the other tier could afford to feel threatened because they could stay home wrapped up in a well payed cocoon and look down they’re noses at and feeling superior to those who can’t then don’t feel threatened ,,

surprise surprise those of us that have had to live with covid have learnt to live with it,

of course the cozy don’t like to have they’re cozyness pointed out 

At the height of the pandemic I chatted to our window cleaner. He said he felt safe, doing an outside job, but he said to me, "I don't have a choice but to carry on working. No one pays me furlough. If I don't work, we don't eat."

 

[G STAR RAM]

9 minutes ago, Miggins said:

At the height of the pandemic I chatted to our window cleaner. He said he felt safe, doing an outside job, but he said to me, "I don't have a choice but to carry on working. No one pays me furlough. If I don't work, we don't eat."

I was in the same boat, had recently started a new job and didn't qualify for the furlough scheme.

 

 

[Archied]

13 minutes ago, Miggins said:

At the height of the pandemic I chatted to our window cleaner. He said he felt safe, doing an outside job, but he said to me, "I don't have a choice but to carry on working. No one pays me furlough. If I don't work, we don't eat."

 

Yep , same for all my household members , pointing out that truth to those who cocooned on good money whilst the rest tended to the needs of them and the country does not mean your crass and uncaring to those who have lost their lives or loved ones  as some on here would have you believe,, far from it 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Archied

[Wolfie]

10 minutes ago, Archied said:

Yep , same for all my household members , pointing out that truth to those who cocooned on good money whilst the rest tended to the needs of them and the country does not mean your crass and uncaring to those who have lost their lives or loved ones  as some on here would have you believe,, far from it 

I don't see you as crass or uncaring about those who have lost loved ones but you are obviously bitter about this & have been consistently bringing it up throughout. It's just divisive and ignorant to assume that the last 18 months haven't been shitty for the vast majority, whether they've been able to work from home or not.

I know plenty of people who have been struggling to work from home, many with laptops on bedroom dressing tables or on their knees on the sofa & working longer hours and under more pressure - and many of whom are not on "good money". And that's the ones who weren't attempting to home-school at the same time. Yeah, dead cushy.

[ariotofmyown]

17 minutes ago, Archied said:

Yep , same for all my household members , pointing out that truth to those who cocooned on good money whilst the rest tended to the needs of them and the country does not mean your crass and uncaring to those who have lost their lives or loved ones  as some on here would have you believe,, far from it 

Why are you always talking about "those cocooned on good money" in such a derogatory way? It's like you are continually trying to divide people.

The cocooned people I know were hugely appreciative of those essential workers who couldn't stay at home, such as nurses, bus drivers etc. And also think that people who needed to work to make ends meet should have been better supported by furlough. 

[ariotofmyown]

40 minutes ago, Miggins said:

At the height of the pandemic I chatted to our window cleaner. He said he felt safe, doing an outside job, but he said to me, "I don't have a choice but to carry on working. No one pays me furlough. If I don't work, we don't eat."

 

I may have misunderstood parts of the furlough scheme, but I'm not sure why a window cleaner would not receive furlough, unless he had only being doing his job a short time.

If you were self-employed, you'd get 80% of reported profits for the last 3 years.

If he was an employee of a window cleaning business, hard to understand why he couldn't have been furloughed? 

[Archied]

24 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

I don't see you as crass or uncaring about those who have lost loved ones but you are obviously bitter about this & have been consistently bringing it up throughout. It's just divisive and ignorant to assume that the last 18 months haven't been shitty for the vast majority, whether they've been able to work from home or not.

I know plenty of people who have been struggling to work from home, many with laptops on bedroom dressing tables or on their knees on the sofa & working longer hours and under more pressure - and many of whom are not on "good money". And that's the ones who weren't attempting to home-school at the same time. Yeah, dead cushy.

Your reading it totally wrong , im not bitter at all , from day one it’s been a virus that we have to live with and im ok with that given the percentage of people who survive it

[Gaspode]

13 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I may have misunderstood parts of the furlough scheme, but I'm not sure why a window cleaner would not receive furlough, unless he had only being doing his job a short time.

If you were self-employed, you'd get 80% of reported profits for the last 3 years.

If he was an employee of a window cleaning business, hard to understand why he couldn't have been furloughed? 

It depends how long he'd been self-employed and how honest he'd been declaring his income. People who'd only been self-employed for a relatively short time were excluded and if he'd been 'minimising' his income on his tax returns, he possibly couldn't affor to drop to 80% of what he claimed to have been earning....

[G STAR RAM]

21 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

It's like you are continually trying to divide people.

You literally imply that people that don't subscribe to your way of thinking do not care about people dying.

You regularly accuse people that do not subscribe to your way of thinking of being selfish.

You regulary call people that do not subscribe to your way of thinking as being conspiracy theorists.

You now accuse someone of being divisive ???

[Archied]

21 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Why are you always talking about "those cocooned on good money" in such a derogatory way? It's like you are continually trying to divide people.

The cocooned people I know were hugely appreciative of those essential workers who couldn't stay at home, such as nurses, bus drivers etc. And also think that people who needed to work to make ends meet should have been better supported by furlough. 

Because in my experience it’s those people who are constantly banging on about keeping measures in place that are divisive , unworkable and I believe counter productive,

why are you always banging on about crass , uncaring when anybody ( mainly me?) is honest and open enough to disagree with your view,

this whole pandemic reaction has been two tier divisive from day one and you think pointing out the truth is the divisive bit?,,

it’s like Harry Potter and he who must not be named ,

I don’t see you up in arms all the time saying everyone should be payed to stay at home and keep safe , I’m guessing that’s because you know that’s not realistic, so are you saying to those that can’t stay home stay safe tough luck that’s how the cookie crumbles?  Hmmmm

[ariotofmyown]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

You literally imply that people that don't subscribe to your way of thinking do not care about people dying.

You regularly accuse people that do not subscribe to your way of thinking of being selfish.

You regulary call people that do not subscribe to your way of thinking as being conspiracy theorists.

You now accuse someone of being divisive ???

I'm pretty sure I don't, but you can probably find a couple of out of context quotes that slightly suggest one of the above.

For a long time, this thread has been the same 2 or 3 Covid sceptics posting all the time, whilst a large number of opposite posters come in and out. All these posters probably blend into one voice for you, which makes it easy to feel victimised.

When you say "you regularly..." I assume you refer to all posters with opposite views to yourself. When "they" do say that, they are usually responding to a fellow sceptic other than yourself!

[Mostyn6]

28 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I may have misunderstood parts of the furlough scheme, but I'm not sure why a window cleaner would not receive furlough, unless he had only being doing his job a short time.

If you were self-employed, you'd get 80% of reported profits for the last 3 years.

If he was an employee of a window cleaning business, hard to understand why he couldn't have been furloughed? 

Most self employed people have to choose whether to pay their tax via the business or via self declaration. Mainly a balance of the two. My accountant advised me to have a low salary, but then have a dividend at the end of financial year. This meant furlough wouldn’t cover anything. I still paid plenty of tax and NI. just another way this government tried to squeeze the working man individually instead of big corporations! Then with IR35 on top… anyway, I digress! Furlough for self employed meant unemployment! 

[RoyMac5]

16 minutes ago, Archied said:

Your reading it totally wrong , im not bitter at all , from day one it’s been a virus that we have to live with and im ok with that given the percentage of people who survive it

Perhaps you'd like to consider also that it's not necessarily 'over' when you've survived it. Some people suffer from Long Covid, some from continuing symptoms - I'll take it that you didn't read the article about potential neurological symptoms. You go on and on about how things were made up as we went along, well that's hardly surprising with such an unknown virus. You laughed at the article talking about the 1918 flu pandemic but it showed how 'difficulties', or peoples understanding of them, don't change even when technology does.