Are we football snobs?

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

I agree i don think they will, but in both games we have played them they have been miles better than us and executed their game plan a lot better than we executed ours.

0-1

0-3

says it all really.

Well last night Rooney was between a rock and a hard place. 
 

New players with no time on the training ground.

We will only see the best of us in a few weeks 

[MuespachRam]

9 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Well last night Rooney was between a rock and a hard place. 
 

New players with no time on the training ground.

We will only see the best of us in a few weeks 

and....? that excuses them for the display...? put that on your list too....its growing rapidly..

[Ram-Alf]

Playing "Beautiful" football gets my juices flowing for me better than what used to happen in the bedroom, Lasts longer and a good few beers after.

Brian Clough, Dave McKay, Arthur Cox, Jim Smith, Steve McClaren all had their players playing with a swagger, Great to watch, Billy Davis on the other hand wasn't so good on the eye but winning 1-0 with sometimes boring football still made for a good weekend and the ale tasted just as good under those Managers above.

I remember Burnley playing at ours under Eddie Howe, They stopped the game at every opportunity, Kicked us, Fell over at the slightest challenge, Wasted as much time as the fool in the middle would let them, They beat us 1-0...nuff said.

[Curtains]

7 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

and....? that excuses them for the display...? put that on your list too....its growing rapidly..

Of course they weren’t at there best last night we all know that. 
 

What do you want them to do walk on hot-coals or something as a penance 

[MuespachRam]

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

Of course they weren’t at there best last night we all know that. 
 

What do you want them to do walk on hot-coals or something as a penance 

no, just you to admit we were beaten by a better team on the night.....actually I dont care.

[Ghost of Clough]

3 hours ago, Eatonram said:

My view is exactly as the OP, particularly second para......"I like seeing Derby score and win more than anything....if its beautiful football like 2014 all the better. But I'd rather win ugly than lose beautifully."

It's not as black and white as "win ugly" vs "lose beautifully" though is it? The best teams in this league are almost always the sides which play good football. The last side which won promotion playing 'ugly' football was Cardiff in 17/18, and non of the current top 6 play that way either.

3 hours ago, Eatonram said:

My point was also about what is required for success in the championship, and the most important building block of "workrate" as achieved by Bielsa. This not about is successful beautiful football better than successful ugly football, as I said we all want to watch what we had in 2014, but even since then, the championship has evolved, without that high press and workmate, success is very elusive....have you not noticed that?

Have you been watching us play since Rooney took over? Workrate is his #1 requirement. Knight and Shinnie cover more ground than most in this league.
We had an off day due to our young players being battered every time we progressed up the pitch. Too scared to take a risk on the ball in the end as there was a real possibility of picking up an injury.
There were a number of occasions when their players left a foot in or smashed through our players off the ball, but the ref offered no protection. Crooks stood on Bird's leg and the ref waved play on for example. A player (Jozwiak?) was barged into on the side line off the ball. Clear yellow, but the ref does nothing instead.
It would have been a totally different game if we had a more competent ref who wasn't afraid of their chairman and booked a player early on.

[Chris_Martin]

5 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

It was a free kick that the goalkeeper half came for and changed his mind.

Not really park football. Just crap goalkeeping.

Wisdom more to blame than anyone else in my opinion. He let the guy get the run on him, then failed to jump and lost the header. The ball was out of reach for Marshall to even get to.

[Curtains]

47 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

no, just you to admit we were beaten by a better team on the night.....actually I dont care.

 

[Eatonram]

10 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

 

Have you been watching us play since Rooney took over? Workrate is his #1 requirement. Knight and Shinnie cover more ground than most in this league.
We had an off day due to our young players being battered every time we progressed up the pitch. Too scared to take a risk on the ball in the end as there was a real possibility of picking up an injury.
There were a number of occasions when their players left a foot in or smashed through our players off the ball, but the ref offered no protection. Crooks stood on Bird's leg and the ref waved play on for example. A player (Jozwiak?) was barged into on the side line off the ball. Clear yellow, but the ref does nothing instead.
It would have been a totally different game if we had a more competent ref who wasn't afraid of their chairman and booked a player early on.

Every single game home and away. Yes I think he has improved workrate, I agree. I am fully behind him, this is not down to Rooney at all, the problems (as I see them) are far more long standing and deep rooted. As I've said previously, we cannot compete on quality with the parachute clubs, we simply cannot afford to, we also seem to lack the recruitment acumen of Brentford for example, again not down to Rooney. For various reasons our squad, talented as many are, overall lack stature, strength and general physicality required in todays championship, which is why we struggle against teams similar to Rotherham, and I fear possibly Barnsley too, I very much hope to be wrong on that one. I do think Rooney could insist on a higher and more aggressive press of our opponents when we are out of possession, perhaps this will come.

 

[rynny]

36 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

A player (Jozwiak?) was barged into on the side line off the ball. Clear yellow, but the ref does nothing instead.

It was Buchanan. 

[MickD]

5 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

And their defensive tactic of: if you can't win the ball, make sure you smash the player.
I feel their chairman intimidated the ref. We shouldn't have expected much from the ref in fairness... he was the plonker who sent Sibley off for trying to free his trapped leg against WBA

Fouls
Rotherham - 16
Derby - 12

Cards
Rotherham - 2
Derby - 3

They could have been given 4 or 5 yellows before the ref finally found his cards on the hour mark. Sibley got a yellow for his first foul!

What difference does it make if it your first foul?  A cautionable offence is a yellow card.  There is nothing in the rules about allowing a certain number of cautionable fouls before you caution a player.   "Totting up" producing a card is for persistent infringement of the rules.

[MickD]

2 hours ago, Curtains said:

I don’t what game you were watching.

I tell you what I’d rather be us than them. 
 

At least we tried to play the game properly.

And lost

[Ghost of Clough]

33 minutes ago, Eatonram said:

 

Your best post for a while.

19 minutes ago, rynny said:

It was Buchanan. 

Thanks. I knew it was someone on the left.

16 minutes ago, MickD said:

What difference does it make if it your first foul?  A cautionable offence is a yellow card.  There is nothing in the rules about allowing a certain number of cautionable fouls before you caution a player.   "Totting up" producing a card is for persistent infringement of the rules.

There were at least 5 Rotherham offences in the first half which should have been yellows. A couple of those weren't even given as freekicks.If they weren't yellows then Sibley's should have been.
I'm not saying he was a biased ref (at least not to start with) as he also missed a few fouls by our players.

The ref was awful and hasn't improved since the last game he reffed us [vs WBA when he wrongly sent Sibley off]

[HorsforthRam]

Our constant one pass forward, and for that player to pass it back undid us. It was terrible football. And when the backwards pass went behind the midfield runner it looked even worse. We weren’t undone by “park” football. We were undone by the lack of technical ability and the lack of movement against opponents who were hard working, denied us space and always put in a challenge. 
 

Why didn’t we deny them space? They were able to pass, yes pass, around any sort of press we tried to deploy. They’ve beaten us 4-0 on aggregate. Not a fluke. 

[Eatonram]

We concede many goals from high crosses into or close to our six yard box which we fail to deal with and a scrappy goal against us arises. Managers see this when they assess us and so use that tactic to score, it is one of our weaknesses.

If our manager thought we could score that way, against a particular team, would we not ALL expect our manager to deploy that tactic, even if we think it is hoofball? I would.

[Millenniumram]

Think it’s very easy to say that we were the team trying to play proper football, and were just poohoused by an anti-footballing Rotherham team. I don’t think it’s necessarily true though. I mean, it’s certainly accurate to say they were playing a very physical game, and relied a lot on long balls. But they could play a bit as well, their 2nd or 3rd goal (can’t remember which) was an excellent counter attack. And I’d hardly say we are Man City. We’ve never really played fantastic football under Rooney - it’s not hoofball, but it’s very much a back to basics, grind out 1-0’s style. Rotherham have scored nearly twice as many goals as us this season, for example, so I don’t think we’re in a position to talk about anti-football. They didn’t get lucky, they were just better than us all over the pitch, it’s as simple as that.

For what it’s worth, winning is all that really matters. Sure, it’s definitely a bonus if you win games while playing free flowing football, and it’s something that should definitely be an aim as it’s great to watch. However, winning should always be the top priority, even if it has to be a bit ugly. All I really care about is watching Derby win football matches, how we do it is pretty irrelevant for me. 

[cannable]

I’m not sure about football snobs but, and I don’t know about anyone else, I can’t help but compare every Derby team to the McClaren team. 

[europia]

I'm not a football snob, but I do find losing to Rotherham rather offensive ?

[Brammie Steve]

I am probably a Derby Snob anyway!

1) Derby deserve to win every game they play!

2) The opposing team only ever scores by a Rams player making an uncharacteristic error.

3) Never by any type of footballing skill!

4) Every referee has an inbuilt prejudice against any player in a Rams shirt because of their inate brilliance!

5) Not to mention their permanent sense of fair play!

If all this makes me a snob then so be it!

[jono]

10 hours ago, Eatonram said:

I saw the comment last night about Rotherhams first goal...."Park football goal", well perhaps so, but it was still a goal.

I like seeing Derby score and win more than anything....if its beautiful football like 2014 all the better. But I'd rather win ugly than lose beautifully.

In the championship, possibly more than many leagues across the world, there are a number of ingredients for success that must be there FIRST, and they aren't "skill and talent"...they are (choose your own phrase) Workrate/Fitness/Energy/Desire/pysicality/pace (including size) perm any three from six but workmate is non negotiable.

Bielsa understood this as clearly do several managers in the championship now. Until we have this we will always be vulnerable to the the teams that have it in bundles, even if we have "better players" (and that is questionable).

I could dissect the game last night in minute detail, but their game plan of high press and high ball into our box was going to lead to a goal sooner or later, once they had scored using "park football" and we had to chase the game, then conceding on the break was almost as predictable. We were soundly beaten.

It may be called the beautiful game......but give me winning any day of the week.

Yes and no ?. I completely agree that this game is about winning, even if you use a cudgel instead of a stiletto but somewhere in that there was to be skill .. that “skill” can be expressed with energy, purpose and strength rather than 20 pass slick ball but there has to be something to hang your hat on that describes your team. Tough is good, thuggery isn’t. Cautious building isn’t necessarily negativity. ... but yeah you are right .. give me points, then goals, then artistry .. hopefully all three. Don’t give me yobs, walls and negativity 

I like this side .. I think it can do something .. we just aren’t scoring goals which is pretty fundamental no matter what the style is. ... as @Seansays ... quote me screen shot me. These lads will bounce back .. 3 points in the next game and 2 goals scored as a minimum.