Eatonram Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 I saw the comment last night about Rotherhams first goal...."Park football goal", well perhaps so, but it was still a goal. I like seeing Derby score and win more than anything....if its beautiful football like 2014 all the better. But I'd rather win ugly than lose beautifully. In the championship, possibly more than many leagues across the world, there are a number of ingredients for success that must be there FIRST, and they aren't "skill and talent"...they are (choose your own phrase) Workrate/Fitness/Energy/Desire/pysicality/pace (including size) perm any three from six but workmate is non negotiable. Bielsa understood this as clearly do several managers in the championship now. Until we have this we will always be vulnerable to the the teams that have it in bundles, even if we have "better players" (and that is questionable). I could dissect the game last night in minute detail, but their game plan of high press and high ball into our box was going to lead to a goal sooner or later, once they had scored using "park football" and we had to chase the game, then conceding on the break was almost as predictable. We were soundly beaten. It may be called the beautiful game......but give me winning any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Can we have a poll? PLEEEEEASSSSEEE! I'm firmly in the group of "Yes, I'm a football snob". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggyram59 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Yes I'm a football snob would rather support a club like Derby who try to play football the right way than a team like Rotherham who are just a physical hit and run team. How I want them to be relegated so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 It was a free kick that the goalkeeper half came for and changed his mind. Not really park football. Just crap goalkeeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eatonram Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, ziggyram59 said: Yes I'm a football snob would rather support a club like Derby who try to play football the right way than a team like Rotherham who are just a physical hit and run team. How I want them to be relegated so much. yes but would you prefer to win ugly or lose beautifully? don't duck the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 14 minutes ago, Eatonram said: I saw the comment last night about Rotherhams first goal...."Park football goal", well perhaps so, but it was still a goal. I like seeing Derby score and win more than anything....if its beautiful football like 2014 all the better. But I'd rather win ugly than lose beautifully. In the championship, possibly more than many leagues across the world, there are a number of ingredients for success that must be there FIRST, and they aren't "skill and talent"...they are (choose your own phrase) Workrate/Fitness/Energy/Desire/pysicality/pace (including size) perm any three from six but workmate is non negotiable. Bielsa understood this as clearly do several managers in the championship now. Until we have this we will always be vulnerable to the the teams that have it in bundles, even if we have "better players" (and that is questionable). I could dissect the game last night in minute detail, but their game plan of high press and high ball into our box was going to lead to a goal sooner or later, once they had scored using "park football" and we had to chase the game, then conceding on the break was almost as predictable. We were soundly beaten. It may be called the beautiful game......but give me winning any day of the week. It wasn't just the goal though. It was their entire game plan. HOOF! Charge!!! Fall over. Take set piece. Repeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Good, well reasoned post @Eatonram but I couldn't watch Rovrum every week. Like you, I admire their industry and will to win, but having skilful and talented players who are also up for the fight too would be my preference all day long. Bielsa's side have more about them than just spirit after all. We were though, as you rightly imply, completely outbattled last night so we need to change something when we come up against highly physical sides like Rovrum. The young 'uns have come in for a lot of stick over their performance last night and while I concede, they were off their game, it really was a case of men against boys with literally no protection from the officials. It's no coincidence that we tend to look much better against sides who try to play football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresOnlyWanChope Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, ziggyram59 said: Yes I'm a football snob would rather support a club like Derby who try to play football the right way than a team like Rotherham who are just a physical hit and run team. How I want them to be relegated so much. I am very much the opposite. I want to see Derby win whatever style. A passing game is nice but I have been saying Derby have been a nice passing side for a few years now, I want to see some hoofball! OK not hit and hope, but longer passing, risky balls over the top, crosses. You need a bit of that in this league, especially because Derby on the whole and over the last few seasons have mainly had less physical players than the other team. A bit of a generalisation but I think this observation is correct. I don't begrudge Rotherham their win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoetheRam Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 People waiting around for us to play like Brazil every week are gonna be waiting another 20 years or so. That's how often Derby have a side that play good football. Give me success any how, any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: It wasn't just the goal though. It was their entire game plan. HOOF! Charge!!! Fall over. Take set piece. Repeat I know it always sounds like sour grapes, but you're right about the strategy and the ref bought it hook, line and sinker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said: I know it always sounds like sour grapes, but you're right about the strategy and the ref bought it hook, line and sinker. And their defensive tactic of: if you can't win the ball, make sure you smash the player. I feel their chairman intimidated the ref. We shouldn't have expected much from the ref in fairness... he was the plonker who sent Sibley off for trying to free his trapped leg against WBA Fouls Rotherham - 16 Derby - 12 Cards Rotherham - 2 Derby - 3 They could have been given 4 or 5 yellows before the ref finally found his cards on the hour mark. Sibley got a yellow for his first foul! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eatonram Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 15 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: It wasn't just the goal though. It was their entire game plan. HOOF! Charge!!! Fall over. Take set piece. Repeat There is no shame in having a game plan that works, maximises your team's strengths and you opponents weaknesses. You also conveniently ignore their further 2 goals which were not hoofball. Losing hurts. That is why I would rather win, and I've watched Derby's best ever players and teams since 1968. In modern football, in the championship, (ala Bielsa) you have to have the energy and workmate, if you can add the talent to to that, assuming we can afford talent, then we will get more success. I ask you the same question I asked ziggyram, win ugly as Rotherham did, or lose beautifully? Which would you take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggyram59 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 27 minutes ago, Eatonram said: yes but would you prefer to win ugly or lose beautifully? don't duck the question. I would hate to win ugly every week like them. We're not going to lose beautifully every game as been proven so would rather lose a few than play the Rotherham way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 As far as I'm concerned, if you don't care about how we actually play, they why even bother watching the games? You can just watch the scores come up on Ceefax/Twitter/Soccer Saturday/whatever and get exactly the same value from the match. Obviously there are different ways to play 'entertaining' football, not just Barca-eqsue pass and move. The sort of fast, direct style Liverpool were playing last season is very entertaining. By most metrics Leicester are probably quite defensive, but their counterattacking football can be good to watch and so on. And beyond that, there are absolutely sensible short term reasons to play ugly football. On a losing streak and need to grind out some wins, then fine. Got promoted and need to establish yourself early on in a tough league, then fine. The thing I personally object to is those managers that actively choose to play ugly football all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eatonram Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 14 minutes ago, ziggyram59 said: I would hate to win ugly every week like them. We're not going to lose beautifully every game as been proven so would rather lose a few than play the Rotherham way. Fair enough. But I rather suspect if we were winning every week, as in your scenario, you might get to rather like it a bit more than you think. When you are successful, your gates increase, your away following goes up, you travel to say Wednesday or Boro with a packed away end, and win 3 0 with the exact goals that Rotherham scored last night, I think most would lap it up, I know I would as I've experienced that feeling. Compare that to how you feel after the Wednesday game a few weeks ago, better team by far, played the better football......and lost. We all felt crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Why is it either or? Rooney will get us playing good football, but it will be with the aim of not losing/winning first and foremost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 It's strange how people criticise Rowettball for example but would the same people then not bother to buy season tickets the following year if we were promoted on the back of it or stop watching us on Sky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 29 minutes ago, Eatonram said: There is no shame in having a game plan that works, maximises your team's strengths and you opponents weaknesses. You also conveniently ignore their further 2 goals which were not hoofball. Losing hurts. That is why I would rather win, and I've watched Derby's best ever players and teams since 1968. In modern football, in the championship, (ala Bielsa) you have to have the energy and workmate, if you can add the talent to to that, assuming we can afford talent, then we will get more success. I ask you the same question I asked ziggyram, win ugly as Rotherham did, or lose beautifully? Which would you take? Are you proposing we should play like Rotherham (we haven't got the players to do so)? Our game plan worked for the previous 3 games but Rotherham's worked only once. Surely our game plan works for us on a more regular basis than Rotherham's works for them? No team will avoid losing. Leeds lost to 2 of the sides now in League 1 last season... They finished 10 points clear of 2nd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted McMinn Football Genius Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Surely to win ugly would be considered to be a plan B or Plan C. We needed to mix the play up after Cocu and we started to do so. Granted this all pretty much coincided with KB return to the squad and form and we now have to operate without his talent and presence ??. I would take a long ball match and brute force as and when required to gain the required result. I’m sure last night is a prime example of the relegation dog fight we find ourselves in and has to be a learning curve for WR and his staff. We need to be more fluid in our squad selection/ rotation and tactical assessments both prior to and during each individual contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: It's strange how people criticise Rowettball for example but would the same people then not bother to buy season tickets the following year if we were promoted on the back of it or stop watching us on Sky? It's fine playing that way when you're winning, but awful when not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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