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RIP Tommy Docherty

rynny

By rynny
in Derby County Forum

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richinspain

richinspain

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Turk Thrust said:

I don’t agree with the “don’t speak Ill of the dead” saying. If you didn’t like someone when they were alive, why should you suddenly think well of them when they die. I was around when he was Derby’s manager. Can never forgive him. 

Because it's only a game? image.png.c83f17e45b5cf7497d3fa841cb98cf6e.png

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Turk Thrust

Turk Thrust

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

You don't have to change and think well of them. There's simply no need to say it out loud. Show respect for the dead and for those that are grieving.

Respect means “a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.” I don’t have that for him whether he’s alive or dead 

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RamNut

RamNut

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

It seemed that way in the mind of this particular 10-year-old in 1977. But a 10-year-old lacks perspective, lacks any understanding of things going stale, of players peaking and ageing. To a young Derby supporter in the mid 70s, Todd, Roy Mac, Rioch, Hector, Charlie et al would always be Derby players, and it would only be a matter of time before we were up there again.

But that team was way past its best and had needed significant new blood for quite a while by the time Docherty arrived. Not an easy job - Previous managers' attempts and arresting decline had included Derek Hales and Gerry Ryan, for example.There had been a couple of seasons of decline leading up to Docherty's arrival.

Ok, so he didn't do an especially good job of revitalising players whose careers were already heading south but I think it's time for something of a reappraisal of his time at DCFC. He couldn't stop the decline of our favourite players but he certainly didn't cause or start it.

The Doc signed Gerry Ryan,  (and tbh he was one of the better signings).

but I agree with the rest. 
we had failed to manage the regeneration of the team, and the replacement of special players who all started to hit 30 at the same time. transfer fees rocketed and we got left behind. 

the real damage was done in October 1973

 

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AndyinLiverpool

AndyinLiverpool

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Turk Thrust said:

Respect means “a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.” I don’t have that for him whether he’s alive or dead 

You're wrong but this is not a thread for semantic claptrap. You've said your piece on Docherty and we have to respect that.

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irobinson

irobinson

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Posted
1 hour ago, SIXTEEN AGAIN said:

i can remember one quote i think it was Colin Gibson who for some reason allowed to travel on the team bus for an away match.

 

He asked Doc what the side would be for the said game, and Doc's reply was "right let's see who's caught the bus"

 

Very funny guy.

Ibe wont be Playin  then nor would Bent 

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LeedsCityRam

LeedsCityRam

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

It seemed that way in the mind of this particular 10-year-old in 1977. But a 10-year-old lacks perspective, lacks any understanding of things going stale, of players peaking and ageing. To a young Derby supporter in the mid 70s, Todd, Roy Mac, Rioch, Hector, Charlie et al would always be Derby players, and it would only be a matter of time before we were up there again.

But that team was way past its best and had needed significant new blood for quite a while by the time Docherty arrived. Not an easy job - Previous managers' attempts and arresting decline had included Derek Hales and Gerry Ryan, for example.There had been a couple of seasons of decline leading up to Docherty's arrival.

Ok, so he didn't do an especially good job of revitalising players whose careers were already heading south but I think it's time for something of a reappraisal of his time at DCFC. He couldn't stop the decline of our favourite players but he certainly didn't cause or start it.

Good post. Think his time at Man Utd had a significant bearing on his approach to the Derby job also. His time at Manu is very well captured in the BT Sport documentary 'Too Good to go down'. 

Like Derby, he inherited an ageing squad off the back of recent success (Manu won the European Cup 4 years earlier) but was arguably too slow to regenerate the side, keeping the stalwarts of Busby's team (including Best, Law & Charlton) even though they were well past their best & had cost 2 managers their job since Busby. They went down in 1974. He then rebuild the team in the Second Division with some good young players & they came back up with a bit of a bang, winning the FA Cup in 1977.

He obviously lost the Manu job that year because of the off-field stuff & joined us straight away. Im not that surprised he decided to speed up the transition with us, he just made very poor decisions in doing so. He did later admit to doing a poor job & seemed to show regret. Think he gets all the blame for the poor decisions post-Mackay which isnt totally fair & is possibly an extension of a) his role in our 1976 FA Cup Semi defeat & b) his subsequent flit to QPR once the writing was on the wall with us.

RIP Tommy

 

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FlyBritishMidland

FlyBritishMidland

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Good post. Think his time at Man Utd had a significant bearing on his approach to the Derby job also. His time at Manu is very well captured in the BT Sport documentary 'Too Good to go down'. 

Like Derby, he inherited an ageing squad off the back of recent success (Manu won the European Cup 4 years earlier) but was arguably too slow to regenerate the side, keeping the stalwarts of Busby's team (including Best, Law & Charlton) even though they were well past their best & had cost 2 managers their job since Busby. They went down in 1974. He then rebuild the team in the Second Division with some good young players & they came back up with a bit of a bang, winning the FA Cup in 1977.

He obviously lost the Manu job that year because of the off-field stuff & joined us straight away. Im not that surprised he decided to speed up the transition with us, he just made very poor decisions in doing so. He did later admit to doing a poor job & seemed to show regret. Think he gets all the blame for the poor decisions post-Mackay which isnt totally fair & is possibly an extension of a) his role in our 1976 FA Cup Semi defeat & b) his subsequent flit to QPR once the writing was on the wall with us.

RIP Tommy

 

I’ve seen the same documentary - it’s a good watch.  I think Doc had a problem with senior players as he always tried to get rid of the old guard and bring younger players in.  I think it was Willie Morgan who he got on really well with, then as he became more experienced, willing to challenge, etc they had a falling out.

RIP Doc

 

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S8TY

S8TY

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

It seemed that way in the mind of this particular 10-year-old in 1977. But a 10-year-old lacks perspective, lacks any understanding of things going stale, of players peaking and ageing. To a young Derby supporter in the mid 70s, Todd, Roy Mac, Rioch, Hector, Charlie et al would always be Derby players, and it would only be a matter of time before we were up there again.

But that team was way past its best and had needed significant new blood for quite a while by the time Docherty arrived. Not an easy job - Previous managers' attempts and arresting decline had included Derek Hales and Gerry Ryan, for example.There had been a couple of seasons of decline leading up to Docherty's arrival.

Ok, so he didn't do an especially good job of revitalising players whose careers were already heading south but I think it's time for something of a reappraisal of his time at DCFC. He couldn't stop the decline of our favourite players but he certainly didn't cause or start it.

Great post ....I remember when we appointed him there was a lot of excitement at the appointment as he was a no nonsense type of manager who'd done a good job at Man Utd, but there was a massive job to be done here and think it was wrong manager at the wrong time, yes he got rid of some good players but they were well past there best and for me some could not forgive that,signing Gordon Hill seemed a massive signing yet like Docherty seemed past his best even at a fairly young age i remember watching Billy Caskey and Vic Moreland make there debuts and wondering...just where were we going....a troubled time at the club and the start of some poor appointments but he didn't come here to make a failure of it as no manager intentionally does....RIP DOC 

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ram1964

ram1964

Posted
Posted

A true character of the game, a very good player of his time and a big name manager of his day with varying degrees of success , non so at Derby where he dismantled a very successful ageing team into oblivion.

dispute his failure at Derby he was Mr football through and through, charismatic ,entertaining and deserves a place in football history.Thanks for the memories 

RIP  Tommy Docherty.

condolences to all that knew him

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