Sack cocu

[Wolfie]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

If they players aren't playing then the manager either has to get them to play, or drop them.

And when he does that and drops them, you'll be slagging him for making changes for matches.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Van Wolfie said:

And when he does that and drops them, you'll be slagging him for making changes for matches.

Well he does like to tinker. Why change from 5 at the back when it was working? ?

[Ramley Apple]

1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said:

Isnt it his job to motivate, and encourage the players though

That's also part of the players' jobs

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

13 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

How do you drop 70% of the team when there’s nobody to replace them with except kids?

Senior players nurture kids or should help the manager do that. Instead Cocu has had to pull Bird out of the firing line because the seniors are a terrible example.

I can't say to be honest that I've seen any lack of effort from the players...the problem is that effort comes to nothing which will certainly be dispiriting for them when all of the changes in players and formations over a long run of games makes no difference to the results.

 

[Jourdan]

57 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

And haven’t we seen this before, recently under other managers?

Maybe they’re just thick and comfortable with their life that’s it really doesn’t matter to them which direction the club is going in.

All this ‘it’s for Cocu to motivate the players’ stuff does my head in as well. Didn’t Roy Keane say something about this at the weekend. Desire comes from within. If you’re a winner you give it your all regardless.

You can’t tell me that Cocu is bamboozling the players with tactics that are completely alien to them and nobody (coaches or players) is learning at all. Surely that can’t be right.

It’s more like the other team want it more. Or are better just better individually or as a team.

Cocu has really had just two transfer windows. Two. And he was left an absolutely dire squad. You can just give players away. You need people to want them.

A dire squad with no desire. But of course it’s the managers fault because he doesn’t rant and rave.

Bottom line is the squad (at this point in time) isn’t good enough, strong enough, fit enough, or balanced. Its a big big job. For Cocu or whichever poor sod comes in next.

When were we bottom of the league under recent managers?

So you’re saying that the players don’t care? After a season in charge, these players are ones that Cocu has chosen to form the basis of his squad moving forward, so surely again it comes back to poor management for being unable to identify the weak links in the squad?

The same ‘dire’ players that were part of teams that finished in the play offs in 17-18 and 18-19? The same ‘dire’ players that have left and gone to other teams in the Championship and to a man, have walked into starting elevens at this level? Even Jozefzoon and Dowell have found joy at other clubs at this level, so how dire has this squad ever been really?

Let’s not dress this up as something it is not. We have a squad to rival all but maybe 3-4 clubs in this division. What’s the difference between us and Reading? Us and Boro? Us and Stoke? Us and Millwall? Us and Luton? They all have managers who are getting the most out of what they’ve got.

The squad is fine. History tells us we have had a top half squad at worst for the last eight years. Have we always had the manager to match? Yes and no.

Right now, you would have to say clearly not.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

Even Jozefzoon and Dowell have found joy at other clubs at this level, so how dire has this squad ever been really?

Lets not forget Paterson.

[Chris_Martin]

3 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

When were we bottom of the league under recent managers?

So you’re saying that the players don’t care? After a season in charge, these players are ones that Cocu has chosen to form the basis of his squad moving forward, so surely again it comes back to poor management for being unable to identify the weak links in the squad?

The same ‘dire’ players that were part of teams that finished in the play offs in 17-18 and 18-19? The same ‘dire’ players that have left and gone to other teams in the Championship and to a man, have walked into starting elevens at this level? Even Jozefzoon and Dowell have found joy at other clubs at this level, so how dire has this squad ever been really?

Let’s not dress this up as something it is not. We have a squad to rival all but maybe 3-4 clubs in this division. What’s the difference between us and Reading? Us and Boro? Us and Stoke? Us and Millwall? Us and Luton? They all have managers who are getting the most out of what they’ve got.

The squad is fine. History tells we have had a top half squad at worst for the last eight years. Have we always had the manager to match? Yes and no.

Right now, you would have to say clearly not.

This.

[Jimbo Ram]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Lets not forget Paterson.

He has looked decent when I have seen him. Bound to score a brace against us ?

[Chris_Martin]

16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well he does like to tinker. Why change from 5 at the back when it was working? ?

at a push, maybe.

[BBG83]

9 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

When were we bottom of the league under recent managers?

So you’re saying that the players don’t care? After a season in charge, these players are ones that Cocu has chosen to form the basis of his squad moving forward, so surely again it comes back to poor management for being unable to identify the weak links in the squad?

The same ‘dire’ players that were part of teams that finished in the play offs in 17-18 and 18-19? The same ‘dire’ players that have left and gone to other teams in the Championship and to a man, have walked into starting elevens at this level? Even Jozefzoon and Dowell have found joy at other clubs at this level, so how dire has this squad ever been really?

Let’s not dress this up as something it is not. We have a squad to rival all but maybe 3-4 clubs in this division. What’s the difference between us and Reading? Us and Boro? Us and Stoke? Us and Millwall? Us and Luton? They all have managers who are getting the most out of what they’ve got.

The squad is fine. History tells us we have had a top half squad at worst for the last eight years. Have we always had the manager to match? Yes and no.

Right now, you would have to say clearly not.

You can’t compare this squad to any of the previous.

Lampard had three top quality players and a more settled squad at his disposal.

This is not that squad. This squad is weak overall. It’s early days in a re-build and miles away from a top 6 squad. That’s laughable.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

5 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

You can’t compare this squad to any of the previous.

Lampard had three top quality players and a more settled squad at his disposal.

This is not that squad. This squad is weak overall. It’s early days in a re-build and miles away from a top 6 squad. That’s laughable.

It's Cocus squad though...these are players he's largely either brought through or purchased.

And yet,he's unable to get any results out of them.

Something's wrong and we are deteriorating so how is he dealing with it?

[neil62uk]

16 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

He has looked decent when I have seen him. Bound to score a brace against us ?

If he don't , there's always Martin or Weimann ?

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, neil62uk said:

If he don't , there's always Martin or Weimann ?

Weimann is out injured.

[Jourdan]

7 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

This squad is weak overall. It’s early days in a re-build and miles away from a top 6 squad. That’s laughable.

This used to be the line rolled out in the final years of Clough’s tenure. Weak squad, miles away from the top six, needs rebuilding, and so on. A new manager came in and all of that was put to rest.

Can you be more specific? Where is this squad weak? Who are the weak links precisely? How does this ‘weak squad’ compare to some of the squads currently occupying the top half?

Early days in a rebuild, you say? How many more new players do we need to compete in the Championship?

What’s laughable is that you don’t seem to realise that the only reason that this squad is miles away from the top six is down to the manager.

Believe me, you’ll see the difference when a new manager comes in.

[neil62uk]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

Weimann is out injured.

I'd still back him to score  ON the treatment table against us ?

[BBG83]

1 minute ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

It's Cocus squad though...these are players he's largely either brought through or purchased.

And yet,he's unable to get any results out of them.

Something's wrong and we are deteriorating so how is he dealing with it?

We don’t know yet. As much as he’s signed players, others have left. So really is an ever changing squad.

But you’re right. Something is wrong. But why is that solely Cocu’s fault?

He’s been shopping in the bargain bin. Imagine pulling CKR out of that and thinking that’s the answer. Of course he isn’t. Of course Cocu isn’t thinking like that. It was a cheap body to replace Martin and hopefully do a job.

His two best acquisitions were relegated with Wigan last season. Then we’ve got an unfit Ibe. A ‘prospect’ in Duncan. Both free for a reason. Joswiak a purchase but not to the value of the two players we sold. So it’s not as you make it sound, ‘his squad’, it’s a squad that reflects the circumstances.

He deserves the benefit of the doubt. Let’s see where we are in Feb.

 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

14 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

We don’t know yet. As much as he’s signed players, others have left. So really is an ever changing squad.

But you’re right. Something is wrong. But why is that solely Cocu’s fault?

He’s been shopping in the bargain bin. Imagine pulling CKR out of that and thinking that’s the answer. Of course he isn’t. Of course Cocu isn’t thinking like that. It was a cheap body to replace Martin and hopefully do a job.

His two best acquisitions were relegated with Wigan last season. Then we’ve got an unfit Ibe. A ‘prospect’ in Duncan. Both free for a reason. Joswiak a purchase but not to the value of the two players we sold. So it’s not as you make it sound, ‘his squad’, it’s a squad that reflects the circumstances.

He deserves the benefit of the doubt. Let’s see where we are in Feb.

 

It's not about blame,it's about responsibility and that lies with the manager who has to make the most of the resources he has at his disposal.

By anyone's measure,including his own no doubt,he is failing to do so and its not improving which is what is do worrying.In fact we have become measurably worse.

It's hard to see how this is going to improve under Phillipe,his tactics and team selection seems to getting wilder and more desperate and changing the direction of the team after the squad made clear their doubts was a particularly concerning development....that shouldn't be happening,can you imagine cloughie(Brian) putting up with that??

No,I think he'd done here,it is surely just when.

[BBG83]

13 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

This used to be the line rolled out in the final years of Clough’s tenure. Weak squad, miles away from the top six, needs rebuilding, and so on. A new manager came in and all of that was put to rest.

Can you be more specific? Where is this squad weak? Who are the weak links precisely? How does this ‘weak squad’ compare to some of the squads currently occupying the top half?

Early days in a rebuild, you say? How many more new players do we need to compete in the Championship?

What’s laughable is that you don’t seem to realise that the only reason that this squad is miles away from the top six is down to the manager.

Believe me, you’ll see the difference when a new manager comes in.

Bold statement. A new manager will have this same squad performing will they. Let’s just see. No point in carrying on with my reasons why he should stay because you’ve convinced me that someone will come in and turn it around. Within two games probably.

*said new manager should also have to shop in the bargain bin and make do + have players who’s contract insists they play regardless of performance*

[Van der MoodHoover]

2 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Contrast those two performances to the ones we saw in late December and early January v Charlton and Barnsley last season and the difference is night and day when it comes to showing some fight, some spirit and displaying a united front.

I would also encourage you to watch the recent post game interviews with Byrne and Waghorn to get a sense of the mood of the players. Listen to their responses, observe their body language, and you can see something is clearly not right.

I very much agree with this analysis up to the last line. 

I disagree with the diagnosis. The manager has been a constant between the two periods you have used. But something is indeed amiss. 

I don't know what the problem is. Rooney? Being potless? Missing the booing? 

I just feel that saying it's all down to Cocu is a facile conclusion to leap to and that just swapping him out without a deeper analysis of our issues will not work. 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I don't know what the problem is. Rooney? Being potless? Missing the booing?

Rooney was missing early doors. I think it's more to do with losing belief when it doesn't get better. And even when it gets a bit better he changes it again...