Sack cocu

[CROSSWORD]

22 minutes ago, Beetle said:

I think it's quite simple really the players are not good enough and the squad is worse than last year in my opinion. We are therefore doing worse than last year. When everyone is fit and available we will progress up the league; I'm sure we will not go down but will be no more than mid table until we get better players.

Question is really will a change of manager improve where we finish in the league significantly I.e. get us up. If not will the next manager be able to attract better players so we improve next year when we have more funds?

I think Cocu will be able to attract better players when we have the funds.

Really hoping when/if we get said funds we,ll attract a decent manager first.

[Rab a dab doo]

People have to remember that football fans are NOT logical, sane, thinkers.

We're prone to flights of fancy quickly going from bouts of high elation to the depths of deep depression and every shade in between in 90 minutes.

One minute our 'star man' can do no wrong and metaphorically walks on water the next minute he's about as good as the mess left by the cat in the litter.

We turn from hero worship when achieving even limited success into a gladiatorily mob baying for blood when defeat and disaster loom.

Players and managers know and accept this. 

Too many them I am afraid (unless they have a really close affiliation with club/city)  regardless of how often the kiss the badge are there because its a job. The like all other people who work will work for/ go to who ever offers the most money or the most job security (length of contract).

We should NOT expect (our) managers and players to have same loyalty, dedication and love for OUR club as us fans. 

They don't and cannot live, breathe, think,  love and been emotional abut Derby as US,

 

 

[Ambitious]

2 minutes ago, CROSSWORD said:

Really hoping when/if we get said funds we,ll attract a decent manager first.

Sacking Cocu and hiring a new manager almost definitely wipes any movement we have with regards to P&S regulations. It's not a straight forward sacking that's for sure. 

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

1. Organising the academy through all levels up to the first team.

2. Reducing the wage bill and getting rid of players we normally offer silly extension contracts to.

3. Adding value to youth team players and protecting them equally (Bird being a good example).

1) What is so good about the Academy playing like the 1st team!

2) Yeah don't offer a contract extension to any strikers. 

3) Adding value to the youth team?! He's played and dropped a few of them, Sibley was worth 'you can't afford him', what is he worth now?!

Clutching at straws. The first team is paramount and it sits bottom of the Championship thanks to Cocu and team.

[LeedsRam1999]

I’ve taken a break from all things Derby since we hit bottom last week. It’s been refreshing to not have added negativity into a world where it seems there is a lack of good news. I love Derby and always will but it’s been nice to forget they exist for a week. 
 

Now that I’ve been thinking about it again. I don’t believe we have the resources to sack Cocu and bring in a new manager. I think we may be stuck with him till the end of the season or January time. If we are to survive, I think there ultimately needs to be a change in the style of build up play and a change back to the 3-4-3. We are in a relegation battle and the sooner we realise that the better. 
 

We have looked more Assured with 3 centre halves and with the addition of Bielik that could prove useful. If you look the XG we are creating too little chances and conceding too many. Having a solid base to build from will really help. 
 

As hard as it sounds, we can’t turn on the players, manager and club on social media. The only way out of this is unity. Come the Bristol game, we will know if we have any fight in us. Let’s pray we can turn this around. 

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, Hathersage Ram said:

I think you are very wrong about virtually everything. Our academy needed to my knowledge no outside organising from Cocu. 

The club already had an agenda to substantially reduce the wage costs and all Cocu has done is operated within that framework.

Wassall has added the value to the younger players coming into the team, I am not convinced Cocu has added anything to any player, young or old. 

I have heard all these excuses for Cocu, but honestly he has had ample opportunity to at least show some progression in our play and results. 

He is in my opinion completely unsuited in character and tactics to manage in the Championship

What characteristics do you think a Championship Manager should possess, and what tactics would you expect any suitable candidate to implement. Perhaps you might know of an ideal candidate. Please share.

[BBG83]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

1) What is so good about the Academy playing like the 1st team!

2) Yeah don't offer a contract extension to any strikers. 

3) Adding value to the youth team?! He's played and dropped a few of them, Sibley was worth 'you can't afford him', what is he worth now?!

Clutching at straws. The first team is paramount and it sits bottom of the Championship thanks to Cocu and team.

Look. I see it a different way. That's what's good about this forum. Different opinions.

I just think Cocu was dealt a bad hand. Bielik came in under Cocu's tenure but it was already sorted. I like to think that £10m would have been spent better by Cocu.

[Gaspode]

15 minutes ago, Rab a dab doo said:

People have to remember that football fans are NOT logical, sane, thinkers......

Two minutes looking at this board shows that.....

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

I just think Cocu was dealt a bad hand. Bielik came in under Cocu's tenure but it was already sorted. I like to think that £10m would have been spent better by Cocu.

That's not what Ryan Conway of The Athletic says:

Quote

Krystian Bielik, the club’s £9.5 million record signing from Arsenal last summer whom Cocu and his staff identified when they came to the club, has been out since tearing an ACL in January but is now back in the first-team squad ...

https://theathletic.co.uk/2179685/2020/11/05/Derby-county-cocu-goals-shortage/

[i-Ram]

5 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

Look. I see it a different way. That's what's good about this forum. Different opinions.

Absolutely correct. I would take a couple of hours away from the keyboard though as you are debating today with two posters who will only ever be happy if we have McClaren in charge and Martin upfront, and a keyboard warrior from Hathersage who only knows what we don’t need, but has no ideas or solutions to put forward.

[BBG83]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

That's not what Ryan Conway of The Athletic says:

https://theathletic.co.uk/2179685/2020/11/05/Derby-county-cocu-goals-shortage/

Fair enough. Either way. Bad signing financially.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, i-Ram said:

Absolutely correct. I would take a couple of hours away from the keyboard though as you are debating today with two posters who will only ever be happy if we have McClaren in charge and Martin upfront, and a keyboard warrior from Hathersage who only knows what we don’t need, but has no ideas or solutions to put forward.

Yeah cos you just let stuff ride dontcha? ?

[Hathersage Ram]

5 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

What characteristics do you think a Championship Manager should possess, and what tactics would you expect any suitable candidate to implement. Perhaps you might know of an ideal candidate. Please share.

I personally like Managers who are charismatic, motivators, and appreciate scoring goals. Tactical awareness is important too, but you can have a number 2 who compliments perhaps the managers weakness if tactics is not their forte. The ability to manage is the top priority, to understand players differing makeups, to encourage, praise, reprimand, improve a young man. 

Regarding who to appoint next, I don't spend all my free time perusing championship and lower league managers or indeed European ones. However I do like the following candidates. Cook and Ryan Lowe would be my preferred choices

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

6 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Absolutely correct. I would take a couple of hours away from the keyboard though as you are debating today with two posters who will only ever be happy if we have McClaren in charge and Martin upfront, and a keyboard warrior from Hathersage who only knows what we don’t need, but has no ideas or solutions to put forward.

Rather than one who just likes sitting on the sidelines sniping.....

[BBG83]

25 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

I personally like Managers who are charismatic, motivators, and appreciate scoring goals. Tactical awareness is important too, but you can have a number 2 who compliments perhaps the managers weakness if tactics is not their forte. The ability to manage is the top priority, to understand players differing makeups, to encourage, praise, reprimand, improve a young man. 

Regarding who to appoint next, I don't spend all my free time perusing championship and lower league managers or indeed European ones. However I do like the following candidates. Cook and Ryan Lowe would be my preferred choices

I agree. I do. But here we sit bottom of the championship and there's no guarantee Cocu will or won't getting us playing well soon. Certainly no more guaranteed than bringing in someone like Ryan Lowe.

So that leaves us with two scenarios, both a gamble. Or we scrap the idea of a 'Derby Way', remove the focus away from the academy altogether and get Allardyce who's football everyone says they hate (which I don't understand). And he's a bit dodgy. He and Warnock are as close as you get to guaranteed safety/promotion.

Given the two gambles win over Big Sam, for me, unless we can tempt Klopp down to Derby, then its better the devil you know. Hopefully with some money to spend.

[i-Ram]

38 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yeah cos you just let stuff ride dontcha? ?

If you mean to not be too knee jerk without knowing all the facts, I am guilty as charged.

I remain of the view that Cocu might be still the right man to take us forward. I think that his ideals, his philosophy towards developing youth, his calm dignified approach, is ideal for our club. He could be our ‘Wenger’.

My concern is that Cocu has been derailed this season, and I suspect from within the club. If I was to hazard a guess I would say Rooney’s contractual arrangements have him as a guaranteed pick. All Ok when he is fit and performing (e.g. after he joined us), less good now as he struggles for form and indeed a settled position in the team. And then there are all those rumours about him building a management team which Rooney has never done anything to calm down. I wonder why he hasn’t come out anytime in the last month or two and said their is no truth in these rumours; my focus is purely on performing to the best of my abilities as player and coach for Derby. And then there is the team meeting where the players, probably led by our captain?, demanded a change in approach. That has worked well too hasn’t it?

Hopefully 2 weeks away from the fray will give Cocu the opportunity to reflect on the matters at hand, and come back invigorated. Perhaps we will see more of Sibley and Whitaker rather than Lawrence, and a younger, more energetic midfield 3 now that Bielik is available. From my perspective I would be happier to see a lot less of Rooney, but I think that unlikely if my suspicions above are true.

[i-Ram]

18 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Rather than one who just likes sitting on the sidelines sniping.....

[ossieram]

On 11/11/2020 at 13:09, TomG said:

so it's his mess, he should clean it up!

By that reasoning, Mel shouldn't sell the club till we are in a similar position to when he took over the club.

[BBG83]

7 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

If you mean to not be too knee jerk without knowing all the facts, I am guilty as charged.

I remain of the view that Cocu might be still the right man to take us forward. I think that his ideals, his philosophy towards developing, his calm dignified approach, is ideal for our club. He could be our ‘Wenger’.

My concern is that Cocu has been derailed this season, and I suspect from within the club. If I was to hazard a guess I would say Rooney’s contractual arrangements have him as a guaranteed pick. All Ok when he is fit and performing (e.g. after he joined us), less good now as he struggles for form and indeed a settled position in the team. And then there are all those rumours about him building a management team which Rooney has never done anything to calm down. I wonder why he hasn’t come out anytime in the last month or two and said their is no truth in these rumours; my focus is purely on performing to the best of my abilities as player and coach for Derby. And then there is the team meeting where the players, probably led by our captain?, demanded a change in approach. That has worked well too hasn’t it?

Hopefully 2 weeks away from the fray will give Cocu the opportunity to reflect on the matters at hand, and come back invigorated. Perhaps we will see more of Sibley and Whitaker rather than Lawrence, and a younger, more energetic midfield 3 now that Bielik is available. From my perspective I would be happier to see a lot less of Rooney, but I think that unlikely if my suspicions above are true.

Exactly my thoughts and very well put.

[i-Ram]

25 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

I personally like Managers who are charismatic, motivators, and appreciate scoring goals. Tactical awareness is important too, but you can have a number 2 who compliments perhaps the managers weakness if tactics is not their forte. The ability to manage is the top priority, to understand players differing makeups, to encourage, praise, reprimand, improve a young man. 

Regarding who to appoint next, I don't spend all my free time perusing championship and lower league managers or indeed European ones. However I do like the following candidates. Cook and Ryan Lowe would be my preferred choices

I doubt Cocu does not appreciate his team scoring goals. He could just do with a useful striker.

The ability to manage is the top priority, to understand players differing makeups, to encourage, praise, reprimand, improve a young man., would to me seem a perfect description of Cocu.

Cook has some merits, but I can’t imagine any incoming Sheikh would have him on a wish list. As for Ryan Lowe, would that be the guy with about a years management experience with Bury and Plymouth? Come on, you are making yourself look silly.