v Reading (H) Match Thread

[IlsonDerby]

Eventually I’d like to see: 

                        Marshall 

Byrne MTW/Wisdom Clarke Buchanan

                            Bird 

                     Sibley Shinnie 

          New      New     Lawrence 

 

Roos, Wiz/MTW, Foz, Rooney, Waghorn, Marriott, Whittaker. 
 

Gonna give MTW a bit more time than others before writing him off. He’s in a new league and in a poor side depleted by injuries. Can’t be letting the ball bounce over him again mind... 

 

[Jimbo Ram]

7 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Eventually I’d like to see: 

                        Marshall 

Byrne MTW/Wisdom Clarke Buchanan

                            Bird 

                     Sibley Shinnie 

          New      New     Lawrence 

 

Roos, Wiz/MTW, Foz, Rooney, Waghorn, Marriott, Whittaker. 
 

Gonna give MTW a bit more time than others before writing him off. He’s in a new league and in a poor side depleted by injuries. Can’t be letting the ball bounce over him again mind... 

 

Bielik for Shinnie too....

[Ellafella]

8 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Ultimately Cocu wants a highly intelligent & fluid team that dominates possession & pulls teams all over the place with their movement & tactical adaptability. Problem with that theory is it ain't easy & takes time to implement - much easier to be a Pulis/Rowett/Warnock and get 2 banks of 4, soak up & load the oppo box with plenty of crosses. Can Cocu's style work in the Championship? Yes. Any system that involves movement & control of the ball is difficult to defend against, irrespective of the league.

A key element of this team is the attacking threat - otherwise it very quickly turns into inert, pointless possession for possession's sake. Clearly we're struggling on this front given Lawrence's & Waghorn's injury, the loss of Martin & as things stand, the inability to bring in attacking reinforcements. Without that threat, teams can then lean on us knowing we've got nowt.

Like I said in late December before Rooney arrived, judge Cocu once he has all his tools at his disposal - post Jan, we started playing & apart from weakness against top 6, threatened the playoffs AND played good football. I believe that is the ultimate destination this season - if its still crap once Waggy/Lawrence back & new signings in, then yeah, judgement to be made.

So far, we’ve achieved that bit. I’m not sure why the players who were out there yesterday don’t understand the bit about fluid movement - it’s not exactly rocket science. Nor do they seem to understand about marking players as both Reading goals showed where opposition players were allowed total freedom in our box. 
The brief spell post-January I think was all about the Rooney “bounce” - unless you’re suggesting that the system clicked but now has un-clicked. I’m all for giving managers time if I can see some green shoots but after 12 months and some awful football, and a seeming inability to sign players {how long should you allow other Clubs to mess you about before you move on?} I just see a sub-standard level of football with little signs of progress. 

[nottingram]

9 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

The point is he has had an impact in a short space of time and signed some good players whilst we’ve been being played by the Polish team since January trying to sign a 22 year old. Reading looked very good today. We looked awful. 

Yeah and we looked really good on the first day of last season, ultimately this was meaningless as we had a poor to average season. Maybe, and whisper this very quietly as it is somewhat revolutionary, the first game of the season doesn’t tell a full story. 

I don’t think there’s a side in this division who could cope well with missing their first choice in all three attacking positions (counting Jozwiak as first choice RW, might be wrong on that). Teams aren’t in a position to hold expensive players as back ups or rotation options so we are really having to make do currently. I’m sure we would all have liked to have got Jozwiak in quickly but as it seems he is the one we really want, playing the long game to get him in at a price we’re comfortable with is important as it means we can strengthen elsewhere. This isn’t Cocu’s or even anyone’s fault at all really, just the way it is that we now have to be super careful with what we spend. 

As an aside you have noted that Reading have signed some “good players” while the manager has been there. This is objectively false, there isn’t a player in their squad yesterday who wasn’t there last season. Strikes me you were just making things up to make a dig but I am not sure why or to whom this would be.

[Ellafella]

8 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Yeah and we looked really good on the first day of last season, ultimately this was meaningless as we had a poor to average season. Maybe, and whisper this very quietly as it is somewhat revolutionary, the first game of the season doesn’t tell a full story. 

I don’t think there’s a side in this division who could cope well with missing their first choice in all three attacking positions (counting Jozwiak as first choice RW, might be wrong on that). Teams aren’t in a position to hold expensive players as back ups or rotation options so we are really having to make do currently. I’m sure we would all have liked to have got Jozwiak in quickly but as it seems he is the one we really want, playing the long game to get him in at a price we’re comfortable with is important as it means we can strengthen elsewhere. This isn’t Cocu’s or even anyone’s fault at all really, just the way it is that we now have to be super careful with what we spend. 

As an aside you have noted that Reading have signed some “good players” while the manager has been there. This is objectively false, there isn’t a player in their squad yesterday who wasn’t there last season. Strikes me you were just making things up to make a dig but I am not sure why or to whom this would be.

I don’t think we looked really good on the first match of last season. I recall Huddersfield camped in our penalty area for the entire 2nd half but missed sitters. We spawned 3 points after a MOTM performance by Lawrence who disappeared into his box for the next 8 games. 
 

2nd point: we’ve looked equally turgid with Lawrence and Waghorn in the side and just as toothless. 
 

Im not sure how you can talk about Jozwiak when you haven’t even seen him play in a Derby shirt. He isn’t a Derby player. 
 

And check again about who Reading have signed. I think you’ll find I am correct. And the bit about just “making things up to have a dig” I find offensive - I don’t “make things up”. 

Reading looked stronger, more organised, hungrier, fitter, more athletic and they actually enjoyed their game yesterday. In contrast, we looked rigid, static, scared, and bereft of any belief or confidence in our game. 

[nottingram]

8 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

I don’t think we looked really good on the first match of last season. I recall Huddersfield camped in our penalty area for the entire 2nd half but missed sitters. We spawned 3 points after a MOTM performance by Lawrence who disappeared into his box for the next 8 games. 
 

2nd point: we’ve looked equally turgid with Lawrence and Waghorn in the side and just as toothless. 
 

Im not sure how you can talk about Jozwiak when you haven’t even seen him play in a Derby shirt. He isn’t a Derby player. 
 

And check again about who Reading have signed. I think you’ll find I am correct. And the bit about just “making things up to have a dig” I find offensive - I don’t “make things up”. 

Reading looked stronger, more organised, hungrier, fitter, more athletic and they actually enjoyed their game yesterday. In contrast, we looked rigid, static, scared, and bereft of any belief or confidence in our game. 

I didn’t make any comment about Jozwiak other than that I expect he’ll be first choice and so is worth waiting for and paying the right fee.

Have just checked who Reading signed, so can you look through their match day 18 and tell me who wasn’t there last season? I am sorry you have taken offence but in this instance you are wrong. They signed two players, Ejaria on a permanent following his loan last season and Josh Laurent who didn’t play yesterday. 

I will defer to your superior knowledge on Readings and Derby players state of mind, not something I am or will even pretend to be an expert on, and I don’t personally know anyone involved to get a guage on this

[Steve Buckley’s Dog]

Yesterday I was looking forward to when fans can turn up at games. Now I am looking forward to when our players turn up. 
 

The two games so far have been insipid, boring rubbish. Our first thought is to go backwards or sideways at every opportunity and it is boring to watch. As mentioned elsewhere there doesn’t appear to be any leadership out there and very little fight and heart. We also, as usual, don’t look as fit as the other team, for which there is no excuse. 
 

Turgid. It can only get better. 

[minesahartington]

9 minutes ago, nottingram said:

I didn’t make any comment about Jozwiak other than that I expect he’ll be first choice and so is worth waiting for and paying the right fee.

Have just checked who Reading signed, so can you look through their match day 18 and tell me who wasn’t there last season? I am sorry you have taken offence but in this instance you are wrong. They signed two players, Ejaria on a permanent following his loan last season and Josh Laurent who didn’t play yesterday. 

I will defer to your superior knowledge on Readings and Derby players state of mind, not something I am or will even pretend to be an expert on, and I don’t personally know anyone involved to get a guage on this

Josh Laurent did play yesterday 

[nottingram]

6 minutes ago, minesahartington said:

Josh Laurent did play yesterday 

So he did, my apologies @Ellafella

I don’t think he is necessarily a huge difference maker but my assertion was wrong

[Woodley Ram]

Positive from yesterday, our passing is better and more slick ( just not enough of it going forward) , Marshall and Byrne are quality signings.

the EFL through the charge and soft embargo as well as injuries have killed our pre season so I expect us to get better and stronger with the injuries and new signings in the team. CoCu knows we lack width, pace and height 
 

negatives . Some learnings from Reading, we are a bit predictable playing out from the back all the time and need not only a plan B but also a Plan C, keep them guessing and play over the press. Reading played with real physicality something that we struggled with, how often were we pushed off the ball (apart from wizz) . You have to earn the right to play football and need to be able to scrap. We still need to be fitter, although Reading looked absolutely knackered 

I am still positive about the season, new signings with pace, height and to provide width, the return of injuries and a plan to beat the press, sorry as well as more physicality and we will be there. I still have high hopes for DCFC and CoCu 

[minesahartington]

I agree and I hope you are right. 

I like Cocu and want him to succeed.

i just have a nagging concern that his passive “Amsterdam cafe style” laid back football is not gonna cut it in the Championship. These are players who must have fought with talent and aggression to get to this level, so it’s in them, but it’s definately being curbed somewhere and that’s his ultimate responsibility 

[NottsRam77]

10 hours ago, sage said:

Forsyth can have bad passing days but today he was good, i watched. 

Marriott played as soon as he was fit. He was recovering from the groin operation. 

And the full backs... Centre Halves that seem to be like strangers to one another 

that first goal was basic lack of communication That you’d be fuming about on a Sunday morning, if not the pre season games then What are they doing in training .. that was schoolboy and amateurish 
 

im all for project cocu, I don’t like his style I think it’s too passive but I’m on board with the notion of stability and development but it drives me up the wall when we keep conceding amateurish defending, and let’s not muck about its a recurring theme that’s not improved from last season... so as a fan I’m going to question what they did in pre season and What they do in training Cos it’s not being addressed 

but please watch fozzy closely for the next 4-5 games and tell me u don’t think he kills our play 

as I said I love him, not hating on him at all his first time low crosses are/ were one of the best things we’ve had in years but when he has time and space he takes so long releasing the ball he either picks the wrong ball or turns back to one of his Centre backs and kills the impetus 

im all for safety first, but sometimes it’s totally from his lack of speed of thought and indecision 

I’m not arguing, I respect your opinion bud, just as one football fan to another, just watch him it’s interesting/ worrying 

although granted we have many grounds for concern across the pitch atm 

[S8TY]

Cocus interview after the game was spot on 

if anyone is worried about how we played he nailed every issue in the interview 

I remember after a turgid FA cup performance against Crawley Nigel Clough trying to try and convince us that it was a good performance when it was crap 

Cocu is saying it exactly how even his worst critics in here are seeing it so let’s give the bloke a chance eh?? We need reinforcements but we also need better from those he selects because that was not good enough 

during the game I remember thinking that most of the younger players were not brave enough to try things and play in tight areas and he picked up on that including mentioning Bird ...give Cocu a chance and judge him when he has his squad together because at the moment we are 3-4 players short 

 

 

 

 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, S8TY said:

Cocus interview after the game was spot on 

if anyone is worried about how we played he nailed every issue in the interview 

I remember after a turgid FA cup performance against Crawley Nigel Clough trying to try and convince us that it was a good performance when it was crap 

Cocu is saying it exactly how even his worst critics in here are seeing it so let’s give the bloke a chance eh?? We need reinforcements but we also need better from those he selects because that was not good enough 

during the game I remember thinking that most of the younger players were not brave enough to try things and play in tight areas and he picked up on that including mentioning Bird ...give Cocu a chance and judge him when he has his squad together because at the moment we are 3-4 players short 

 

 

 

 

 I agree with most of that but I'm extremely concerned that a year in,he can't ger the squad,as threadbare as it is,to at least look to have some semblance of cohesiveness and dynamism even if we do ultimately lose.

We saw this under Clement and that didn't improve even with the squad we had then (until wassell and Harry came in and revitalised them)

I desperately want Cocu to work out,I never want to go back to a rowett lump it up team,but he seems to be struggling to get what he wants across.

[S8TY]

7 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

 I agree with most of that but I'm extremely concerned that a year in,he can't ger the squad,as threadbare as it is,to at least look to have some semblance of cohesiveness and dynamism even if we do ultimately lose.

We saw this under Clement and that didn't improve even with the squad we had then (until wassell and Harry came in and revitalised them)

I desperately want Cocu to work out,I never want to go back to a rowett lump it up team,but he seems to be struggling to get what he wants across.

I do get what you’re saying ...I think it’s because they’re are too many young players who aren’t good enough yet to play every game ...Sibley and Knight need a break ...with young players that are progressing and I emphasise“ are progressing “ it is usually 2 steps forward one back and it is vital when to know to take them out ...imagine if Sibley was left out yesterday? This forum would’ve gone into meltdown ...with a bigger squad he’d be able to do that and get across what is wanted ...sometimes just sitting on the bench players can see more ...Sibley was poor yesterday and Knight only improved a tad in second half if a few senior players are not on form then you have a problem ....I don’t think we have major problems that wouldn’t look a lot better with 3-4 decent options up front and in forward areas ...the youngsters aren’t ready to play every game yet but what choice does Cocu have ...write down our current squad and if people take off there rose coloured specs thinking Sibley Knight and co are consistent first teamers you see a squad very weak and thin on the ground but ...I’m a fan like yourself and do see exactly what you’re saying ...good post mate 

[S8TY]

In management to be able to fairly assess someone you have to take away all of the excuses for failure ...we have not yet given Cocu a squad he is pleased with ...when he gets a squad that he’s happy with and if he fails then there is no excuses ...by we have not yet given him the tools to do the job as yet so give him what he wants ...when there is no excuses left then he can be judged

we gave  crap managers like Jewell Clement and Brown so many players so give Cocu a chance then judge him ...anyone thinking we can get Eddie Howe to replace him are in cloud cuckoo land I’m afraid ....

[Andicis]

3 hours ago, S8TY said:

Cocu is saying it exactly how even his worst critics in here are seeing it so let’s give the bloke a chance eh?? We need reinforcements but we also need better from those he selects because that was not good enough 

Most of us on here can **see** the problem, it's an irrelevance if he can't fix it though, isn't it? And some of the issues are lingering ones that we had vs Huddersfield last season, and still show no signs of changing now. 

[Archied]

16 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I hate to repeat myself but I think we need Jozwiak and three signings to see some green shoots.

Jozwiak, a winger to replace Jozefzoon as we will need the depth at some point, a striker to replace Martin, and most crucially a midfielder. Hopefully we can find some joy in the loan market.

I really like Bird and Sibley. They are both immensely talented but they are in danger of being wasted in this team and the current set-up if we don’t address our issues.

The arrival of Jozwiak and the return of Lawrence will bring some much needed pace, edge and directness. A new striker to replace Martin will also be a boost.

But if we don’t get a midfielder in, I think it will end up being a massive oversight. Shinnie and Rooney won’t cut it. Bielik and Holmes are good players but will be difficult to rely upon.

We desperately need someone to drive us up the pitch, link defence with attack, and get us transitioning from one box to the other with tempo.

Without that, the likes of Bird and Sibley and even Lawrence and Jozwiak will be swallowed up by the safety first tactics.

Normally I struggle with the way you see the squad and the manager but in the post above is the vital ingredient needed before anything else ,,, if we are going to spend anything near decent money it has to be on a midfielder in the style of Holmes but better quality in end product, Holmes has the drive , running and attitude we need but much as I like him he’s not got promotion team end product, a Holmes upgrade goes a long way to transforming the team

[sage]

6 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

Eventually I’d like to see: 

                        Marshall 

Byrne MTW/Wisdom Clarke Buchanan

                            Bird 

                     Sibley Shinnie 

          New      New     Lawrence 

 

Roos, Wiz/MTW, Foz, Rooney, Waghorn, Marriott, Whittaker. 
 

Gonna give MTW a bit more time than others before writing him off. He’s in a new league and in a poor side depleted by injuries. Can’t be letting the ball bounce over him again mind... 

 

I would much rather have Knight or Holmes in the position you have Shinnie

[Archied]

5 hours ago, nottingram said:

Yeah and we looked really good on the first day of last season, ultimately this was meaningless as we had a poor to average season. Maybe, and whisper this very quietly as it is somewhat revolutionary, the first game of the season doesn’t tell a full story. 

I don’t think there’s a side in this division who could cope well with missing their first choice in all three attacking positions (counting Jozwiak as first choice RW, might be wrong on that). Teams aren’t in a position to hold expensive players as back ups or rotation options so we are really having to make do currently. I’m sure we would all have liked to have got Jozwiak in quickly but as it seems he is the one we really want, playing the long game to get him in at a price we’re comfortable with is important as it means we can strengthen elsewhere. This isn’t Cocu’s or even anyone’s fault at all really, just the way it is that we now have to be super careful with what we spend. 

As an aside you have noted that Reading have signed some “good players” while the manager has been there. This is objectively false, there isn’t a player in their squad yesterday who wasn’t there last season. Strikes me you were just making things up to make a dig but I am not sure why or to whom this would be.

Quality post mate, the reading new players pull up top notch?, also worth noting the poster you reply to puts decent Derby games down to the Rooney bounce but reading performance no mention of new manager bounce ,, they could well be turgid after a few games once that bounce wears off? 
cocu will or won’t turn out to be successful for us ,who knows but it bores me senseless seeing people talking rubbish to tell everyone why he wont