v Reading (H) Match Thread

[nottingram]

49 minutes ago, Archied said:

Quality post mate, the reading new players pull up top notch?, also worth noting the poster you reply to puts decent Derby games down to the Rooney bounce but reading performance no mention of new manager bounce ,, they could well be turgid after a few games once that bounce wears off? 
cocu will or won’t turn out to be successful for us ,who knows but it bores me senseless seeing people talking rubbish to tell everyone why he wont

As it turns out Reading did have one player not already there last season, Josh Laurent, so I was wrong on that part. 

I do find it interesting that some can’t accept extenuating circumstances for poor performances, of which our current injury / recruitment situation quite clearly is, but as you say, simultaneously argue the entire half season of good performances was due to a mythical bounce associated with Rooney.

No one is arguing we weren’t turd yesterday, but most sensible folk can see that a forward line missing their first choice in every position (and midfield missing Rooney) is going to be severely affected. We do need to be more adventurous, undoubtedly, but I would just like Cocu to be judged on a fair basis with the tools he needs, and not against a team where the forward line shows promise but isn’t even top half standard (yet!) at this level. And I don’t want good performances to be put down to “the Rooney effect.” This just isn’t balanced in any way.

[Archied]

31 minutes ago, nottingram said:

As it turns out Reading did have one player not already there last season, Josh Laurent, so I was wrong on that part. 

I do find it interesting that some can’t accept extenuating circumstances for poor performances, of which our current injury / recruitment situation quite clearly is, but as you say, simultaneously argue the entire half season of good performances was due to a mythical bounce associated with Rooney.

No one is arguing we weren’t turd yesterday, but most sensible folk can see that a forward line missing their first choice in every position (and midfield missing Rooney) is going to be severely affected. We do need to be more adventurous, undoubtedly, but I would just like Cocu to be judged on a fair basis with the tools he needs, and not against a team where the forward line shows promise but isn’t even top half standard (yet!) at this level. And I don’t want good performances to be put down to “the Rooney effect.” This just isn’t balanced in any way.

Yes saw that but I’m also certain that player was not one of the shining stars the poster was referring to or even knew he was a new player for them,,, 

I honestly can’t say with any certainty that cocu will go on to get success with us but I can say I’m sick to the back teeth of constant move the goalposts manager sackers we get all the time on here who twist everything and anything to suit  they’re expert? view ,even getting results don’t cut it if the face don’t fit ,the football will suck,Christ we even have those still wailing to bring maclaren back and he’s nothing more than a good coach who dropped on lucky with a good team assembled for him by somebody else

[DRBee]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

,Christ we even have those still wailing to bring maclaren back and he’s nothing more than a good coach who dropped on lucky with a good team assembled for him by somebody else

I certainly wouldn't want MacClaren back but this post shows how suspect your judgement is. And you complain about those who" twist anything and  everything to suit ". If you actually bother to read other people's posts carefully you will see that for many it is not success that is clamoured for, nor a desire to sack managers ,  but  that the motivation  for  going to games and watching the team is entertaining football.

[Archied]

1 minute ago, DRBee said:

I certainly wouldn't want MacClaren back but this post shows how suspect your judgement is. And you complain about those who" twist anything and  everything to suit ". If you actually bother to read other people's posts carefully you will see that for many it is not success that is clamoured for, nor a desire to sack managers ,  but  that the motivation  for  going to games and watching the team is entertaining football.

Yep there’s those that are consistent in that opinion and fair play to them , I’m talking about those that change like the wind 

[Richard246]

Training tomorrow watch Everton

Legs  in midfield and supporting the striker it’s not rocket science is it.

We pass well sometimes and stop players should be running past Marriott???

 

[Edtheram]

Right, after yesterdays bleak start its clear to see that were struggling going forwards and again look like a team who like having the ball but don't want to do anything with it. Players coming back from injury and signings will certainly help but unless this team starts to play with urgency and flair we will be seeing alot more of these performances no matter who we sign. Silver Lining = Forest have spent millions over the last year and also lost yesterday, our side was weak to say the least so lets just keep our heads until the 10 game marker is reached.

We need to improve from 1 to 11, the football is too slow and too negative, not sure the formation helps. I will judge this team after the transfer window and after 10/15 games. lets hope we see abit more tempo and quality in mid week but right now id take a couple of goals. Luton is a big game and we need to get a result. hopefully some business can be done and a couple players come back to fitness. Again i dont want to be too critical as its only the first game and our side is far from the finished article, although the goal scoring and creativity problem was addressed last season......

 

 

[IlsonDerby]

5 hours ago, sage said:

I would much rather have Knight or Holmes in the position you have Shinnie

Fair enough. Arguably you might want Bird in his position and Bielik sitting deeper. I have to admit I completely forgot Bielik when putting the line up together. 

[europia]

2 hours ago, Richard246 said:

Training tomorrow watch Everton

Legs  in midfield and supporting the striker it’s not rocket science is it.

We pass well sometimes and stop players should be running past Marriott???

 

Yes Everton are going to do well this season. Carlo Ancelotti & a billionaire owner. Not a bad combo at all ?

[RamNut]

Having now watched the first 75 minutes before my battery went.....The first half was like watching a rowett team. We conceded possession and stood off. When we did get the ball we simply couldn’t move it as well as Reading. Wisdom, bird, Shinnie and Forsyth were all poor. The front four were isolated. Sibley and Knight were anonymous and out of position. Wisdom was lucky not to give away a penalty. I know he’s not exactly a crowd favourite but you have to wonder what’s going on with jozefzoon when Knight and Whittaker are preferred out wide. Cocu is not helping himself. 
Reading looked decent. Top 6 team? No wonder we took nothing off them. 
second half was Poor until Knight moved into the Shinnie role and played much better. But This is clutching at straws. 
 

[Tyler Durden]

Masochistically I've just watched the match highlights again if that's what you can call them.

Either Readings centre forwards are world beaters and made MTW look like an average Championship defender or conversely MTW played like a Conference defender and made Readings forwards look like galacticos. 

The truth probably lies somewhere inbetween but massive scope for urgent immediate improvement.

[Alph]

The tale of woe about injuries only really works if you closed your eyes through all of last season when the pattern of games was the same from August - January and then the run in. 

But if our slightly under strength side makes gets brushed aside easily by Reading and is second best to Barrow then fingers crossed we don't pick up any more injuries once our superstars are back. 

It was easy for Reading. It wasn't hard for Barrow to hold us at arms length. Cardiff in massive game, any of the top 6 last season, Luton, Charlton, Scunthorpe, Northampton... all watched our puzzled little faces go through the passing exercise. 

It's not new

[Anag Ram]

Yeah and it may well be that MTW is going through a transitional phase as he adapts to life in the championship. 

He seems a bit nice as he tries to win over players and fans alike. 

I want to see him using his experience and barking at the defence. 

We need to be watertight this year and everyone has to be more alert and determined to shut out the opposition. 

On Saturday we were the Titanic, leaking from all sides. 

I hope that training will be a tough time for the team and that they will bounce back. 

It just worries me that it takes a setback to get them going. 

[Duracell]

4 minutes ago, Alpha said:

The tale of woe about injuries only really works if you closed your eyes through all of last season when the pattern of games was the same from August - January and then the run in. 

But if our slightly under strength side makes gets brushed aside easily by Reading and is second best to Barrow then fingers crossed we don't pick up any more injuries once our superstars are back. 

It was easy for Reading. It wasn't hard for Barrow to hold us at arms length. Cardiff in massive game, any of the top 6 last season, Luton, Charlton, Scunthorpe, Northampton... all watched our puzzled little faces go through the passing exercise. 

It's not new

It's a bit more than slightly under strength. It's not just the injuries - four true first team players have left and only one has been replaced, and he hadn't even had a full training session yet. Huddlestone, Martin, Lowe and Bogle, not to mention that Rooney wasn't fit.

Not excusing the performance at all, but to judge Cocu on the basis that Saturday's line-up was anything close to Plan A is extremely harsh. The only match-winners on the pitch was an 18 year old and an isolated striker with no confidence.

The result was understandable, the performance wasn't.

[Alph]

15 hours ago, Archied said:

to bring maclaren back and he’s nothing more than a good coach who dropped on lucky with a good team assembled for him by somebody else

Nonsense. He brought that team to life. It set club records. What a nonsense comment. 

He was lucky like Ranieri was lucky with Leicester. Like Zidane was lucky at Real. Like Rowett at Millwall or a thousand other cases of a manager coming in and improving a team without bringing in a bunch of players. 

Oh, and then he came back when we were holding up the league (thanks to Pearson who left Ranieri and easy title winning side) and lifted us to a brief play off push. Again jumping half the league. 

[Longeatonram2020]

14 hours ago, Richard246 said:

Training tomorrow watch Everton

Legs  in midfield and supporting the striker it’s not rocket science is it.

We pass well sometimes and stop players should be running past Marriott???

 

And Everton fans were slagging him off last season with some calling for his head

[Alph]

3 minutes ago, Duracell said:

It's a bit more than slightly under strength. It's not just the injuries - four true first team players have left and only one has been replaced, and he hadn't even had a full training session yet. Huddlestone, Martin, Lowe and Bogle, not to mention that Rooney wasn't fit.

Not excusing the performance at all, but to judge Cocu on the basis that Saturday's line-up was anything close to Plan A is extremely harsh. The only match-winners on the pitch was an 18 year old and an isolated striker with no confidence.

The result was understandable, the performance wasn't.

I do accept the task of winning was tough when we are short. I definitely accept that. It's the performance that winds me up. It's not a new pattern in our game. 

Same with Barrow. I don't expect to be smashing teams like Barrow. I just think it's possible and hope for it. But upsets happen. I do expect to be the best team on the pitch though and we wasn't. And I think it's reasonable to expect that even without Waghorn and Lawrence. 

[FindernRam]

On 12/09/2020 at 17:30, Ramarena said:

What the reason for this is I don’t know.

Lack of sausages at the training ground!

[Tyler Durden]

12 minutes ago, Duracell said:

It's a bit more than slightly under strength. It's not just the injuries - four true first team players have left and only one has been replaced, and he hadn't even had a full training session yet. Huddlestone, Martin, Lowe and Bogle, not to mention that Rooney wasn't fit.

Not excusing the performance at all, but to judge Cocu on the basis that Saturday's line-up was anything close to Plan A is extremely harsh. The only match-winners on the pitch was an 18 year old and an isolated striker with no confidence.

The result was understandable, the performance wasn't.

I think we're on the same page. As @Alpha has already alluded to in isolation it would be grossly unjust to judge Cocu on the basis of Saturdays game. But we have seen similar performances demonstrated last season when we had a number of the players you refer to playing. This is the worrying trend now being formed that Cocu needs to start addressing with his team now.

 

[FindernRam]

My reaction to Cocu saying his players were not following his plan particularly in the first 20 minutes is he must be losing his authority over the team. And to lose authority over a bunch of kids is deplorable as a manager. Has he lost the dressing room already?

A kick up the backside, if not during the game, certainly at half time, was definitely called for , but it appeared it never happened. You can forgive lack of skill, you can sometimes accept that a formation is forced on you or doesn't work, but lack of effort is always unforgivable! 

But having listened to Mourinho ranting about pretty much the same thing with Spurs I think maybe, just maybe I am a little harsh. If Jose, who exudes authority struggles what chance do lesser managers have. 

[RamNut]

I didn’t see a lack of effort. Just a muddle. Some players out of position. Some low on confidence. And plenty missing. But if the wheels come off because of injuries to Holmes, Lawrence and Waghorn then there is something wrong.