IslandExile Posted July 9, 2020 Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, Duracell said: If your point is that beyond a competitive first XI and a few decent back-ups, we are very average, then the last two fixtures have proved you correct. The main reason we don't look dynamic is how many players we have missing in a congested fixture schedule. But SRG is right, we don't have enough pace or dribblers in the side. We've done very well considering we lack that. Yes I agree with all of that. As I and others have said in other threads, I think most folks are generally agreed - and that includes Cocu - we need to supplement the highly promising academy players with proven quality, especially in attacking, creative, pacy forward players. To provide an option to going through Rooney all the time, to take the pressure of the youngsters and just to get us forward more quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh n Bake Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 10 hours ago, IslandExile said: Rooney is fantastic, a truly brilliant, world class player. It's a honour to have him at our club. His composure on the ball is incredible, his passing sublime, his onfield coaching essential, free kicks are a joy. However, Chris Powell on sky and someone on the match thread pointed out that we are too reliant on him, to the point where it seems every move has to go through him. When he's heavily marked, lying deep, facing backwards that slows everything down. Would we be more dynamic without him? The adoring youngsters in the team wouldn't feel compelled to seek him out with a pass. We would need to play the ball faster to runners. Look at the performance against Blackburn when Rooney was out injured. I'm torn because I think we should be including more quality players, not less, but is he just too good for the rest that we're becoming a one man team? Too one dimensional. Are you on glue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 10 hours ago, IslandExile said: Look at the performance against Blackburn when Rooney was out injured. We're good with him and we're good without him I think there's a lot of worrying about a couple of games - One against a team clearly better than us (players who were PL signings on the bench) and one against a team playing a solid, ultra-defensive game which we always struggle against Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted July 9, 2020 Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 46 minutes ago, Nick_Ram said: Are you on glue? I don't sleep well these days. I was just mulling things over. I get into trouble when I think aloud. As I said earlier, I regretted asking the question but I didn't delete it because I thought it would provide a talking point. Of course, we're better with Rooney. As I said earlier, Rooney is part of the solution, not part of the problem. Suspensions, injuries, assaults did for us against West Brom. I don't understand the Forest performance. I'm not downhearted. I'm Cocu's biggest fan. So glad to have Rooney and love the promise of the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Duracell said: If your point is that beyond a competitive first XI and a few decent back-ups, we are very average, then the last two fixtures have proved you correct. The main reason we don't look dynamic is how many players we have missing in a congested fixture schedule. But SRG is right, we don't have enough pace or dribblers in the side. We've done very well considering we lack that. I think the last two points are connected. Yesterday we were missing Bielik, Keogh, Wisdom, Lawrence, Waghorn and Mariott. All varying degrees of quick or at least, most capable a beating player or carrying the ball to draw out the opposition. And if you think about that does explain some of our issues right now; lack of mobility in attack, lack of individual attacking threat and lacking someone who can drive out from the back to draw out the opposition midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, cheron85 said: We're good with him and we're good without him I think there's a lot of worrying about a couple of games - One against a team clearly better than us (players who were PL signings on the bench) and one against a team playing a solid, ultra-defensive game which we always struggle against Yeah I think you have a point. At any other point of the season I think we'd probably be chuffed with 10pts from the 5 games we've had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab a dab doo Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 We all knew as soon as his arrival was proclaimed Rooney would dominate all the news around the club both on and off the field. So it comes as no surprise. He is one/if not the most skilful player in team the and also the one they all look up to. So naturally when they are looking around on the pitch not knowing what do do or feeling unsure their first thought is to look for him. That's not his fault, sometimes he may not even want the ball. Overall if you asked any team in this division would they take Rooney off our hands now I think every team would say YES. Not just for what he can still do on the pitch but what he can do for players and the club off it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo jones Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 9 hours ago, Srg said: Having no pace or players who can run with the ball at defenders inhibits dynamic football. Defences aren’t scared of any individuals we have, other than Lawrence despite what some think of him. West Brom could’ve played an offside trap from the half way line and stood there laughing for 10 seconds as we tried to spring it, only to walk back and still catch us up. Yeah, this. Who was the last genuinely quick player we had? And I mean frightens defenders quick, I struggling to come up with a name, I’m probably missing an obvious one though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 minute ago, jimbo jones said: Yeah, this. Who was the last genuinely quick player we had? And I mean frightens defenders quick, I struggling to come up with a name, I’m probably missing an obvious one though. Vydra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I don’t think so. Well, it depends on how you use him. If you have him playing number 10 surrounded by slow players like we have up front at the moment, then we’re gonna be left with a severe lack of pace and dynamism going forward. You could see it against West Brom, we had no one to drive forward with the ball, or make runs in behind. For the time being, until the summer at least when we can bring in some faster forward players, I think he needs to be playing in the two. When he’s playing there his lack of pace doesn’t matter, as his speed of thought makes up for it and allows us to move the ball quickly, which is what really matters. Personally, I think the defensive midfield two is actually probably the strongest area of our team. We have proper quality in there, as well as good depth and different options. It’s the three in front that’s our problem area - there’s not enough quality there, or enough cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 15 hours ago, IslandExile said: Rooney is fantastic, a truly brilliant, world class player. It's a honour to have him at our club. His composure on the ball is incredible, his passing sublime, his onfield coaching essential, free kicks are a joy. However, Chris Powell on sky and someone on the match thread pointed out that we are too reliant on him, to the point where it seems every move has to go through him. When he's heavily marked, lying deep, facing backwards that slows everything down. Would we be more dynamic without him? The adoring youngsters in the team wouldn't feel compelled to seek him out with a pass. We would need to play the ball faster to runners. Look at the performance against Blackburn when Rooney was out injured. I'm torn because I think we should be including more quality players, not less, but is he just too good for the rest that we're becoming a one man team? Too one dimensional. The squad is short on experience and quality, so we need Rooney. He probably isn't up to playing 3 games a week, but what options does Cocu have at the moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 13 hours ago, jimbo jones said: Yeah, this. Who was the last genuinely quick player we had? And I mean frightens defenders quick, I struggling to come up with a name, I’m probably missing an obvious one though. Camara was supposed to be quick. But not only did he always want the ball to feet and never ran into space, he also couldn’t play football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 12 hours ago, Millenniumram said: I don’t think so. Well, it depends on how you use him. If you have him playing number 10 surrounded by slow players like we have up front at the moment, then we’re gonna be left with a severe lack of pace and dynamism going forward. You could see it against West Brom, we had no one to drive forward with the ball, or make runs in behind. For the time being, until the summer at least when we can bring in some faster forward players, I think he needs to be playing in the two. When he’s playing there his lack of pace doesn’t matter, as his speed of thought makes up for it and allows us to move the ball quickly, which is what really matters. Personally, I think the defensive midfield two is actually probably the strongest area of our team. We have proper quality in there, as well as good depth and different options. It’s the three in front that’s our problem area - there’s not enough quality there, or enough cover. Last season against West Brom ( who were better ) we had Marriott running in behind them and Wilson and mount attacking from central midfield and Bennett and Lawrence from out wide running them ragged - we were very good and they couldn’t cope - we still have Marriott Lawrence and Bennett and sibley could replace one from central midfield so let’s ask Wilson if he wants a fun season instead of looking miserable at Bournemouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 15 hours ago, jimbo jones said: Yeah, this. Who was the last genuinely quick player we had? And I mean frightens defenders quick, I struggling to come up with a name, I’m probably missing an obvious one though. Theo......scared our defence half to death! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 I think it's less to do with Rooney inhibiting us and more to do with the fact we run out of ideas too quickly. It's Cocu's job to coach that problem out of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 16 hours ago, brady1993 said: I think the last two points are connected. Yesterday we were missing Bielik, Keogh, Wisdom, Lawrence, Waghorn and Mariott. All varying degrees of quick or at least, most capable a beating player or carrying the ball to draw out the opposition. And if you think about that does explain some of our issues right now; lack of mobility in attack, lack of individual attacking threat and lacking someone who can drive out from the back to draw out the opposition midfield. I guess to summarise this entire thread, like any football team, we look worse when the majority of our best players are missing. Whudda thunk it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 There's something I'm not sure of, who in this league plays 'dynamic' football, so I can be sure of what it is we're missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said: There's something I'm not sure of, who in this league plays 'dynamic' football, so I can be sure of what it is we're missing. I would say perhaps Leeds and Brentford? I'm not sure either that there's a precise definition of 'dynamic' (thank God it's replaced the relentlessly vague 'expansive' in the football lexicon), but I've always taken it to mean the opposite of 'pedestrian', which I interpret as slow, predictable and playing in front of the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo jones Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 6 hours ago, Srg said: Camara was supposed to be quick. But not only did he always want the ball to feet and never ran into space, he also couldn’t play football. Hah I did think of him, but he was discounted for those reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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