Does having Rooney in the team inhibit dynamic football?

[IslandExile]

Rooney is fantastic, a truly brilliant, world class player. It's a honour to have him at our club.

His composure on the ball is incredible, his passing sublime, his onfield coaching essential, free kicks are a joy.

However, Chris Powell on sky and someone on the match thread pointed out that we are too reliant on him, to the point where it seems every move has to go through him. When he's heavily marked, lying deep, facing backwards that slows everything down.

Would we be more dynamic without him? The adoring youngsters in the team wouldn't feel compelled to seek him out with a pass. We would need to play the ball faster to runners.

Look at the performance against Blackburn when Rooney was out injured.

I'm torn because I think we should be including more quality players, not less, but is he just too good for the rest that we're becoming a one man team? Too one dimensional.

[IslandExile]

Yeah, it's nonsense of course. We just need more high quality players so that we have more options in our play.

Rooney is part of the solution, not part of the problem.

I regret starting the poll now but at least it's a point for discussion.

[LeedsCityRam]

Its really difficult to answer this without sounding horribly entitled. Rooney has massively improved the team, has been the key difference in games with crucial goals & raised the standards expected in the club. It is also a massive privilege seeing him in a Rams shirt.

It was pointed out in the Forest match thread that perhaps he's taking on too much responsibility. Some of that is his inate nature of wanting the ball, some of it may be lads in awe of him wanting to give him the ball. The key to good leadership is the ability to delegate...I would hope Rooney is encouraging the others to take more responsibility as he realises his age & upcoming managerial career coming ever closer. As the Blackburn game proved, we are capable of beating decent opponents without him.

Realsitically Rooney wont play for us in the top flight so we have to find a way of preparing for life after him. That will involve Bird & Sibley in particular taking more responsibility for controlling the game & dictating the tempo needed to unsettle opponents. All the signs look good, they just need more playing experience & continued benefit of Rooney around them for the medium term. Interested to see how Cocu utilises Rooney next season & how he manages his gradual withdrawal from the team as the young lads start to become the impetus.

[Ghost of Clough]

I’ll let you know when we’ve got Lawrence and Waghorn back in the team

[Taribo]

This is something I’m debating with myself, there’s been a few occasions where a pass forward to another player was on but instead the ball was played no more than 5 yards sideways to Rooney. But given that he’s more likely to do something positive with the ball than our bang average players, it’s probably not stifling our pedestrian play anyway.

[ramsbottom]

The amount of games it took us to amass 30 points before Rooney's first game - 25

The amount of games it took us to amass 30 points after Rooney's first game - 15

You're right, he's a has been, and way over the hill.  GET HIM OUT OUR CLUB!!!!

[IslandExile]

32 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

The amount of games it took us to amass 30 points before Rooney's first game - 25

The amount of games it took us to amass 30 points after Rooney's first game - 15

You're right, he's a has been, and way over the hill.  GET HIM OUT OUR CLUB!!!!

Good point, well made, though slightly missing the theme of the question.

Teams are learning to mark Rooney out of the game at a time when we seem to want to play through him even more.

I suppose my real point is that we need other options. Funny, you appreciate Lawrence and Waghorn more when they're not there. But I think we need even more than them.

None of this was a slight against Rooney, just the opposite in fact.

[Srg]

Having no pace or players who can run with the ball at defenders inhibits dynamic football. 

Defences aren’t scared of any individuals we have, other than Lawrence despite what some think of him.

West Brom could’ve played an offside trap from the half way line and stood there laughing for 10 seconds as we tried to spring it, only to walk back and still catch us up. 

[David]

Look at the table from when Rooney arrived. No question we are a better team with him than without.

Are we reliant on him? Maybe, but you can argue the same of Spurs with Kane, Man Utd Fernandes, Barca Messi. 

He will get marked out of some games, that will have an effect on our performance, but Rooney is a quality player and will have faced this throughout his career and find ways of creating space and dictating games.

[IslandExile]

10 minutes ago, David said:

Look at the table from when Rooney arrived. No question we are a better team with him than without.

Are we reliant on him? Maybe, but you can argue the same of Spurs with Kane, Man Utd Fernandes, Barca Messi. 

He will get marked out of some games, that will have an effect on our performance, but Rooney is a quality player and will have faced this throughout his career and find ways of creating space and dictating games.

Agreed but the teams you mention also have other options. Ours are much more limited.

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, David said:

Are we reliant on him? Maybe, but you can argue the same of Spurs with Kane, Man Utd Fernandes, Barca Messi. 

I've never understood the argument against being reliant on good players - should we be reliant on say JoFlo then! Apparently Plan A - ie win - is only acceptable when executed by players who can run around lots! BTW did you see that fab interception by Rooney tracking back in the box last night? poo off a shovel then!

[Ambitious]

Rooney attracts the attention that has allowed other players to flourish under the radar, hence the upturn in results. Rooney has done really well, but he's not taking 3-4 players on and scoring from 30 yards every week. It's the attraction to him that has made our other players life that little bit easier. 

The problem with the last couple of games is that it's just been a bridge too far. Injuries, suspensions and little cohesion between the players on the pitch have unsettled us at the time where we can ill-afford any margin for error. If lady luck smiled on us even a little then maybe this season could've been different. At the moment, we're finding our feet with young players whilst shuffling between an extremely threadbare squad of few experienced players. 

We're going into Brentford potentially without: Wisdom (stabbed), Bielik (injured), Waghorn (suspended), Lawrence (suspended), Marriott (injured) and Sibley (suspended). We've already lost Keogh. All, aside for Sibley, are/were established first-team pros that we were hoping for high production this season. I guess you could also add Huddlestone to the list as he's left without contract before the end of the season. 

We are becoming very reliant on our academy players to help us challenge for a top six position and it's overwhelming where their current ability levels are set. Not to mention that we lack any sort of depth out wide and it's completely blunted our attack. 

I can absolutely give Derby a pass on this season, we did well to put ourselves back in the race but the team needs some TLC going into next season. We know where we need help, we've already got a CB coming in that helps one of our issues, so hopefully we can dare to dream for next season. Although, it certainly won't be easy with three relegated teams coming down with parachute payments, a short pre-season (if any pre-season) and continued uncertainty. I think a lot of players who would typically try and leave may stick around so you would expect whoever comes down to be extremely competitive.

[David]

2 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

Agreed but the teams you mention also have other options. Ours are much more limited.

Limited because we’re in the position of bringing through young players, the only way they will improve is by gaining experience on the pitch.

It’s a process where we will have to go through more games like last night as they understand the game better.

Meanwhile having the guidance of Rooney on the pitch is invaluable, especially for Max Bird.

[ramsbottom]

41 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

Good point, well made, though slightly missing the theme of the question.

Teams are learning to mark Rooney out of the game at a time when we seem to want to play through him even more.

I suppose my real point is that we need other options. Funny, you appreciate Lawrence and Waghorn more when they're not there. But I think we need even more than them.

None of this was a slight against Rooney, just the opposite in fact.

All we've seen in the past couple of games is that don't have anyone who can play wide other than Lawrence, Waghorn & to slightly lesser extent Wisdom.  Reading man marked Rooney and it just opened up space for other players to take advantage.  He's raised everybody else's games, and gives the youngsters something to aspire to.  

22 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

Agreed but the teams you mention also have other options. Ours are much more limited.

Spurs have no other plan when Kane's injured.  Man U's form was up & down til Fernandes came in.  Both those teams have a lot better, and more experienced squads then us, yet they still struggle.  What do you expect us to do when we have a team of promising, yet inexperienced kids?

[IslandExile]

I completely agree with what @David and @ramsbottom are saying.

And, as good as the youngsters will be, we do lack wide players. Maybe Knight can do it but it seems that only Sibley can run beyond the centre forward.

So we have to complement the academy players with a few acquisitions.

[David]

2 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

I completely agree with what @David and @ramsbottom are saying.

And, as good as the youngsters will be, we do lack wide players. Maybe Knight can do it but it seems that only Sibley can run beyond the centre forward.

So we have to complement the academy players with a few acquisitions.

I’m sure I saw mentioned yesterday on Twitter that Cocu said he was in for a winger in January but couldn’t get one done. 

It’s one area that needs to be addressed when the window opens, I don’t like sticking Knight out wide, far better in the middle although we’re pretty stacked there with Sibley now entering the scene as well.

[Sparkle]

We are missing players who win matches - Lawrence, Waghorn and Marriott in particular in their own ways and whilst most wouldn’t agree I think a fit Mason Bennett gives us a lot off the bench at the right times, yes he is never fit but Holmes isn’t either and jafoozon doesn’t get selected and Whittaker has shown nothing that I have seen.

lets be honest all of Lawrence Waghorn Marriott and Bennett are the the most frustrating because they can achieve so much more.

[DRBee]

Our trouble with dynamic football precedes the arrival of Rooney  - in fact we have done better since Rooney arrived.

[ilkleyram]

2 hours ago, Ambitious said:

Rooney attracts the attention that has allowed other players to flourish under the radar, hence the upturn in results. Rooney has done really well, but he's not taking 3-4 players on and scoring from 30 yards every week. It's the attraction to him that has made our other players life that little bit easier. 

The problem with the last couple of games is that it's just been a bridge too far. Injuries, suspensions and little cohesion between the players on the pitch have unsettled us at the time where we can ill-afford any margin for error. If lady luck smiled on us even a little then maybe this season could've been different. At the moment, we're finding our feet with young players whilst shuffling between an extremely threadbare squad of few experienced players. 

We're going into Brentford potentially without: Wisdom (stabbed), Bielik (injured), Waghorn (suspended), Lawrence (suspended), Marriott (injured) and Sibley (suspended). We've already lost Keogh. All, aside for Sibley, are/were established first-team pros that we were hoping for high production this season. I guess you could also add Huddlestone to the list as he's left without contract before the end of the season. 

We are becoming very reliant on our academy players to help us challenge for a top six position and it's overwhelming where their current ability levels are set. Not to mention that we lack any sort of depth out wide and it's completely blunted our attack. 

I can absolutely give Derby a pass on this season, we did well to put ourselves back in the race but the team needs some TLC going into next season. We know where we need help, we've already got a CB coming in that helps one of our issues, so hopefully we can dare to dream for next season. Although, it certainly won't be easy with three relegated teams coming down with parachute payments, a short pre-season (if any pre-season) and continued uncertainty. I think a lot of players who would typically try and leave may stick around so you would expect whoever comes down to be extremely competitive.

I thought Lawrence was back on Saturday?  And, presumably Sibley might be available

[Duracell]

5 hours ago, IslandExile said:

Agreed but the teams you mention also have other options. Ours are much more limited.

If your point is that beyond a competitive first XI and a few decent back-ups, we are very average, then the last two fixtures have proved you correct.

The main reason we don't look dynamic is how many players we have missing in a congested fixture schedule.

But SRG is right, we don't have enough pace or dribblers in the side. We've done very well considering we lack that.