v Reading (H) - Matchday Thread

[ramsbottom]

5 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

So it's ok for you to assume everyone on here who's played football has headbutted someone during a game, but it is hypocritical to assume that Tom acted like a fool. 

Well that makes perfect sense! ?‍♂️

I’m saying in every level of football, there’s argy bargies like today’s. And I reckon everyone on the forum has been involved in one without stopping to think about their behaviour. Therefore they shouldn’t spout crap saying Lawrence should know better, cus they will have done it themselves. 

And it was hardly even a headbutt. The ref was crap all game and shouldn’t have even booked him in the first half. Overreacted in my book...

At the end of the day if it was any other player that had done it, they’d be a fraction of the moaning on here...

[Carnero]

4 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

And it was hardly even a headbutt.

I'm in your camp, but I think we need to drop that one as a line of defence... 

[Carnero]

5 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

At the end of the day if it was any other player that had done it, they’d be a fraction of the moaning on here.

This I CAN get on board with.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Carnero said:

This I CAN get on board with.

Well maybe its because although many love to hate him he comes up with the goods - Cocu rates him and sees him as important. What a shame he'll miss three easy games of no importance for us...

[MuespachRam]

1 hour ago, ramit said:

Tom is a tad wild, granted

i am thrilled we now have a genuine bad boy at the club

Yeah bad boy...someone who drives pissed up and almost kills the club captain....and then gets himself sent off after winning a pointless game against a pointless team in a pointless situation...

yeah, bad to the bone that one. 
 

[TuffLuff]

54 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

The reaction on here and Twitter about Lawrence is funkin depressing. Nobody knows what actually went off between the two of them during the game. For all we know their player could’ve been baiting Lawrence all through the game. What he did was stupid, but pretty much everyone On this forum, who’s played football, has been both an antagonist and protagonist in  exactly the same kind of shoving match, so coming on here saying he should know better is very hypocritical. 

It really wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t just say “funk it” at the end of the season, and hand in a transfer request. 

The best and most appropriate response was that of Cocu’s. Disappointed but made the point he’d been the same at one time and it’s about channeling the anger in the right way. It was someone who understood the game being honest whilst also protecting Lawrence.

I respect Cocu enough, not just as our manager but in how he talks about football that I’d rather listen to him than take some opinions on here or on twitter!

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, TuffLuff said:

The best and most appropriate response was that of Cocu’s. Disappointed but made the point he’d been the same at one time and it’s about channeling the anger in the right way. It was someone who understood the game being honest whilst also protecting Lawrence.

Didn't see the second part quoted. Must have been added in by him after he realised he couldn't be seen hanging Tom out to dry - which he deserved. How many times have we seen Lawrence's petulance?

[ollycutts1982]

7 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

Yeah bad boy...someone who drives pissed up and almost kills the club captain....and then gets himself sent off after winning a pointless game against a pointless team in a pointless situation...

yeah, bad to the bone that one. 
 

I don’t think there is any evidence that he almost ‘killed’ anyone. Stop overreacting. ?‍♂️

[Gone]

9 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

I’d rather listen to him than take some opinions on here or on twitter!

Really why ? That’s the tue voice of football surely, not some charlatan who’s actually played the game at a world standard level.....attack, forward, stop passing backwards you fool, that’s the critics you should listen too fella ?

[KBRam]

Let’s be honest TL has proved to be an important player this season and his 10 goals and assists in the stats is proof of that. He does have a petulant streak but I would also associate that with passion for what does for the club. The fact that that PC is supportive confirms he adds value. 

[Gladys' Handbag]

How Lawrence should have reacted.

[Chester40]

21 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

I’m saying in every level of football, there’s argy bargies like today’s. And I reckon everyone on the forum has been involved in one without stopping to think about their behaviour. Therefore they shouldn’t spout crap saying Lawrence should know better, cus they will have done it themselves. 

And it was hardly even a headbutt. The ref was crap all game and shouldn’t have even booked him in the first half. Overreacted in my book...

At the end of the day if it was any other player that had done it, they’d be a fraction of the moaning on here...

I have been very occasionally been over exuberant in a tackle or jumped up and confronted someone. 

I haven't ever 'head butted' someone. But I have been close possibly in the heat of the moment. 

But not after a game I have already won.! When I had ample opportunity to just avoid the player, or walk away with a wry grin.

Never mind getting myself banned for 3 vital games when I am getting paid thousands of pounds to play. 

Just bloody annoying and stupid. He isn't a hard man either. He is niggly and a bit petulant. He gets yellow cards when he does little trips or hanging his leg in/barging after the ball has gone. 

Not sure how much we will miss him but we definitely look stronger with him as an option. 

Not overly furious with him, just can't see how people can really stick up for him, he reacted to provocation he went looking for and deserved a red, brainless muppet. 

 

 

[TuffLuff]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Didn't see the second part quoted. Must have been added in by him after he realised he couldn't be seen hanging Tom out to dry - which he deserved. How many times have we seen Lawrence's petulance?

Think it was part of the same bit you posted to be honest!

Im not sure, the way I look at it is TL has obviously struggled here even though we can all see the potential. Rowett didn’t know how to manage him, Lampard didn’t really find his potential but Cocu has been the first manager who looks like he knows how to get the best out of him and I think properly looks out for him on and off the pitch. There’s obviously been a bit of a personal stuff that’s gone and he doesn’t seem to be the type that can shrug it off or suppress it. Most footballers probably can but it doesn’t mean its necessarily a great attribute to have.

Also Ive always thought his route into football hasnt been the most obvious either(Man U promising youngster, stunted at leicester, promise at Ipswich and in and out of form here). He was never really treated as an up and comer despite being involved in the wales set up and obviously having the potential.  He probably needs that arm around him and be told how good he is. 

With everything that’s gone on, he needs to be managed and if it’s done correctly we have a hell of a player on our hands. Today is disappointing, but we will be ok and he will learn. If Cocu had gone mad at him in his press conference then I’d maybe look at it differently but he didn’t, so maybe there’s a bigger picture we need to appreciate both in the incident itself and the context around it.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, TuffLuff said:

Today is disappointing, but we will be ok and he will learn. If Cocu had gone mad at him in his press conference then I’d maybe look at it differently but he didn’t, so maybe there’s a bigger picture we need to appreciate both in the incident itself and the context around it.

Cocu talks about it and references himself as a YOUNG player. Lawrence isn't a young player any more surely? I don't think he'll ever learn he has a petulance that he seems unable to control, unfortunately.

[angieram]

Has anybody got anything positive to say about today's game? I enjoyed it, although it was a typical 'game of two halves'. Demonstrates how far we have come in terms of general play, both attacking and defensively. We lost 3-0 to these a few short months ago.

I thought Wisdom and Bird played particularly well.

And at least Tom had the good grace not to get sent off until after the final whistle as opposed to in the 2nd minute! ?

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, angieram said:

Has anybody got anything positive to say about today's game?

I think we showed a resilience that will be needed going in to the coming games. We have a talented squad who play some great football, as a team and individually. All of that means we could be in the running for a play-off spot. So when something stupid puts that in jeopardy it's a bit infuriating. 

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, ramsbottom said:

The reaction on here and Twitter about Lawrence is funkin depressing. Nobody knows what actually went off between the two of them during the game. For all we know their player could’ve been baiting Lawrence all through the game. What he did was stupid, but pretty much everyone On this forum, who’s played football, has been both an antagonist and protagonist in  exactly the same kind of shoving match, so coming on here saying he should know better is very hypocritical. 

It really wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t just say “funk it” at the end of the season, and hand in a transfer request. 

Do you honestly think he's treated that badly by the majority of Derby fans?

Assuming he reads comments about him on social media I'm sure he knows it would be pretty much the same where ever he went. So, why would he hand in a transfer request?

I'm afraid it's a sad phenomena of social media. You only need a handful of people to share the same view for it to appear as if they are representative of the majority. I hope footballers are not that naive.

Also, there is a bit a difference between a shoving match and putting your head into someone's face. He was stupid for getting involved and for what he did but I don't want him hung out to dry. 

[TuffLuff]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Cocu talks about it and references himself as a YOUNG player. Lawrence isn't a young player any more surely? I don't think he'll ever learn he has a petulance that he seems unable to control, unfortunately.

No but that’s why I referenced his somewhat unorthodox career so far. That until this season he’s not maybe been an established footballer even if it does sound a little odd. But again under Lampard, Lampard didn’t go to make Lawrence a better footballer for Derby County he was used in a system to get the best out of Wilson and Mount, so he’s never really progressed until this season really.
 

It’s not an easy thing I’m trying to explain but its a bit like how Dawkins was although maybe not such an extreme example. Lawrence has always had the potential but never a manager who realised it and looked to make Lawrence the best player he can be? So yeah he’s 26, but I don’t think you’ve quite got the maturity factor of your average 26 year old champ player who’s been playing week in/week out since he was 20 years old for Brentford or whoever

[Andicis]

10 minutes ago, angieram said:

Has anybody got anything positive to say about today's game? I enjoyed it, although it was a typical 'game of two halves'. Demonstrates how far we have come in terms of general play, both attacking and defensively. We lost 3-0 to these a few short months ago.

I thought Wisdom and Bird played particularly well.

And at least Tom had the good grace not to get sent off until after the final whistle as opposed to in the 2nd minute! ?

The bit I bolded is exactly how I feel too. The Derby before January loses this game comfortably. We've got a lot more mental resilience in the team now, after they scored I feared the worst, but we actually limited them to very few opportunities after that point. The defense was actually pretty good today, Reading didn't cause us too much trouble. I also agree about Bird and Wisdom, both were excellent, and Matt Clarke had a good match too. 

[ramsbottom]

24 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

I have been very occasionally been over exuberant in a tackle or jumped up and confronted someone. 

I haven't ever 'head butted' someone. But I have been close possibly in the heat of the moment. 

But not after a game I have already won.! When I had ample opportunity to just avoid the player, or walk away with a wry grin.

Never mind getting myself banned for 3 vital games when I am getting paid thousands of pounds to play. 

Just bloody annoying and stupid. He isn't a hard man either. He is niggly and a bit petulant. He gets yellow cards when he does little trips or hanging his leg in/barging after the ball has gone. 

Not sure how much we will miss him but we definitely look stronger with him as an option. 

Not overly furious with him, just can't see how people can really stick up for him, he reacted to provocation he went looking for and deserved a red, brainless muppet. 

 

 

He barely moved his head, but people are acting like he lent back 45 degrees before unleashing a thunderbastard into the guys melon. It was nothing. Yellow for me at best.

As I said before, he could’ve been provoked all through the game, who knows. 
As also said previously, if it was any other Derby player it would be nowhere near the same level of moaning. And considering the amount of people think he’s crap, I can’t see why there so incensed that he’ll be missing for 3 games...