Can we still be promoted?

[LeedsCityRam]

Just now, jono said:

The defence is the weak point but, being a bit cheesy, I hope Tiewerk will be the tweak needed. I also think Evans may find a place at the back or as cover at the back. Don’t think we have found a natural  LB RB Choice. Bogle Fozzy Lowe Wisdom and even Malone all offer something but form and opposition seems to undo them too often. I could write an essay on the strengths and weaknesses of all of them - lots of reasons why it HAS to each one of them but then there’s an error or a duffer of a game and I’m scratching my head. Still ... for the first time in an age we have a midfield that is commanding. With that, anything is possible

I've long thought Evans could be a potential revelation at CB. He suits exactly the criteria of CB Cocu's style needs to work (i.e. he can play) but is a calm character, good in the air & positionally very good (important because hes not the quickest)

You're exactly right though, if this midfield can carry the team despite the defence then this team is seriously going places. Defensive solidity can be sorted relatively quickly, midfield balance and blend with the ability to dominate and win games usually takes a long time to achieve.

[Rampage]

Gap between Norwich and Blades is also scary, Jono.

[Jourdan]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Sorry but I dont follow your argument at all. The players you rightly identify as being key to our improvement were not available at the time when you also think the squad was not being well managed.

Added to Rooney, Bird & Sibley not being available/up to speed, we also had lost Shinnie and Clarke to injury. You're not comparing apples with apples.

There are also additional factors insofar as Joiners Arms incident robbing us of our best defender, a squad that inevitably was poorer for loss of loan players and Cocu himself needing time to bed in to a new country & see all his players in action. 

As to your point about fans needing to see what Cocu had in mind...this is why he manages & we support. Behind the scenes, he & his team were working on the young players to the extent that they are now key parts of a very exciting team. Its been nothing to do with 'him finding his feet', its been the realisation of plans...something that was only possible by him having time, which some on here would not have allowed him back in December.

Players can make a difference but such a drastic one?

We have gone from performing like a bottom six team to winning games and scoring goals with the regularity of some of the very best sides of the division.

That doesn’t happen purely through the introduction of 3-4 players, irrespective of how good those players might be.

The quality in the squad has always been there, but the biggest change has been the change in mentality and that starts with the manager.

Before Christmas, all too often, we were cautious, we were tentative, we lacked bravery, we played within ourselves, we struggled to score goals, we were losing games at will, the team was changing every week, players were being played out of position.

Now everything is much more positive. We are brave. We take risks. We have a go at teams. The team looks much more coherent and much more settled.

If your argument is that the first half of the season was a hard luck story and Cocu has only ever been doing the best with the cards he was dealt, it’s a reasonable one but I disagree. For me, the team was underachieving and Cocu wasn’t doing a very good job.

But whatever side you fall on, I think we can all enjoy these better days! Let’s hope there are more to come.

[S8TY]

38 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

What’s interesting for me is what must all of those fans who said this squad was mid-table at best be thinking.

They might be thinking that Cocu is doing tremendously well with a squad that is missing 3 of its best players from last season perhaps 4 with Keogh...I'll go further to say i do not think Frank would've got us in the play offs without the loanees so guess Cocu must be doing something right....but we are still lacking in areas...next season is the one to watch with more evidence of Cocu's influence on it with hopefully a new player or 2 in key areas 

[RoyMac5]

20 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I've long thought Evans could be a potential revelation at CB. He suits exactly the criteria of CB Cocu's style needs to work (i.e. he can play)...

Nope, I've yet to be convinced of that. He's a very average player and will not be what we need to get promoted.

[Rampage]

So which teams expect to hammer the Rams after yesterday. 

[Rampage]

Where is the post Xmas collapse when you need one.

[S8TY]

Jourdan...The team was under achieving and Cocu wasn't doing a good job....please give your head a wobble ffs it doesnt happen overnight how we played in parts against Millwall.....but you state " Cocu was not doing a great job!!!!! " whats that based on ?? He obviously has been doing a good job because theres evidence of the hard work thats been put in......but no...he was doing a crap job back then...lol.....it takes TIME ....and patience to get a team playing like we did at times against Millwall and there is still a long way to go....but the evidence of what was being done by Cocu is starting to show...so don't say he wasn't doing a good job as he obviously was....good job you're not the chairman as you'd have had him out months ago......

[DarkFruitsRam7]

I haven’t read this thread because I can’t be arsed to listen to people saying we have no chance of making the Play Offs, despite the fact that the gap was only 5 points before Saturday, and is now 3. I wasted enough energy defending our prospects last season.

But I just got sent this and I thought I’d dip in briefly. It’s the table since the the end of December:

It’s fine to say that it’s unlikely that we’ll make the Play Offs. But, like I said last year, anyone who writes it off completely, despite knowing how crazy football can be, is a complete fool. 

[May Contain Nuts]

31 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

We have gone from performing like a bottom six team to winning games and scoring goals with the regularity of some of the very best sides of the division.

That doesn’t happen purely through the introduction of 3-4 players, irrespective of how good those players might be.

Did you not witness the 2014/15 season?

3-4 injuries and we went from (almost) automatic promotion certainties top of the table, playing exquisite football, to freefalling and finishing 7th within 15 games.

It would have been the complete reverse of this season but for Ince & Bent covering the cracks.

Bird & Sibley were nowhere near ready to make the impact they've had this season in the first 5 months, and you only need to read their own interviews to see this . 

It wasn't even about the quality of the squad so much as it was the balance.

[LeedsCityRam]

10 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Players can make a difference but such a drastic one?

We have gone from performing like a bottom six team to winning games and scoring goals with the regularity of some of the very best sides of the division.

That doesn’t happen purely through the introduction of 3-4 players, irrespective of how good those players might be.

The quality in the squad has always been there, but the biggest change has been the change in mentality and that starts with the manager.

Before Christmas, all too often, we were cautious, we were tentative, we lacked bravery, we played within ourselves, we struggled to score goals, we were losing games at will, the team was changing every week, players were being played out of position.

Now everything is much more positive. We are brave. We take risks. We have a go at teams. The team looks much more coherent and much more settled.

If your argument is that the first half of the season was a hard luck story and Cocu has only ever been doing the best with the cards he was dealt, it’s a reasonable one but I disagree. For me, the team was underachieving and Cocu wasn’t doing a very good job.

But whatever side you fall on, I think we can all enjoy these better days! Let’s hope there are more to come.

We obviously wont agree on this but the answer for me is undoubtedly yes. The side were incapable of getting a consistent foothold in games (especially on the road), possession stats were nowhere near as high as currently and we totally lacked a cutting edge. The introduction of Rooney, Bird and Sibley has utterly transformed the midfield and allied to Clarke's return to the defence as a ball playing CB (rather than Forsyth & Davies), has changed the team beyond recognition. Thats why we are now dominating and winning games.

I went to Wigan on Boxing Day & to compare the team that day with yesterday is like comparing caviar to Pot Noodle. If the current starting line up was available to Cocu in Nov/Dec, you would have a point but it simply wasn't.

But as you say, we definitely can enjoy these better times. Lots of bumps in the road ahead of course but think we can all see whats developing. Good times ahead ?

[LeedsCityRam]

21 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Nope, I've yet to be convinced of that. He's a very average player and will not be what we need to get promoted.

You're unlikely to be convinced as he hasnt played that often at CB. My point is he has the attributes and with work, could fill a key spot for us. I dont see him as a midfielder at all.

Always better to find solutions from within the squad first before buying.

[Jourdan]

1 minute ago, S8TY said:

Jourdan...The team was under achieving and Cocu wasn't doing a good job....please give your head a wobble ffs it doesnt happen overnight how we played in parts against Millwall.....but you state " Cocu was not doing a great job!!!!! " whats that based on ?? He obviously has been doing a good job because theres evidence of the hard work thats been put in......but no...he was doing a crap job back then...lol.....it takes TIME ....and patience to get a team playing like we did at times against Millwall and there is still a long way to go....but the evidence of what was being done by Cocu is starting to show...so don't say he wasn't doing a good job as he obviously was....good job you're not the chairman as you'd have had him out months ago......

You’re right. I probably would have. 

Football is a results business. The tangible measure of your success in a job is the results you get. 

Cocu deserves the credit for doing brilliantly now and equally, he deserved the criticism when we were struggling.

It’s been a great upturn but I genuinely believe we shouldn’t have been in that position in the first place.

Let’s hope things continue as they currently are.

[Will Hughes Hair]

6 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Players can make a difference but such a drastic one?

We have gone from performing like a bottom six team to winning games and scoring goals with the regularity of some of the very best sides of the division.

That doesn’t happen purely through the introduction of 3-4 players, irrespective of how good those players might be.

The quality in the squad has always been there, but the biggest change has been the change in mentality and that starts with the manager.

Before Christmas, all too often, we were cautious, we were tentative, we lacked bravery, we played within ourselves, we struggled to score goals, we were losing games at will, the team was changing every week, players were being played out of position.

Now everything is much more positive. We are brave. We take risks. We have a go at teams. The team looks much more coherent and much more settled.

If your argument is that the first half of the season was a hard luck story and Cocu has only ever been doing the best with the cards he was dealt, it’s a reasonable one but I disagree. For me, the team was underachieving and Cocu wasn’t doing a very good job.

But whatever side you fall on, I think we can all enjoy these better days! Let’s hope there are more to come.

I'm not sure I can disagree with you more.  Our midfield was in desperate need of an overhaul earlier in the season. I was desperate for us to sign Van Ginkel as the starting point for a rebuild,

The introduction of Bird, Knight, Sibley and Rooney made me think again though.  They have been he equivalent of a 15 million pound injection of talent into the team.  And that figure increases week by week.  Our side has been revolutionised .  And by Cocu.  And by Cocu focusing on our kids.

Yes there are three or four positions where we need to strengthen but momentum is just as important.  This may just be our time and you may need to suck it up and enjoy it.

 

[S8TY]

9 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I haven’t read this thread because I can’t be arsed to listen to people saying we have no chance of making the Play Offs, despite the fact that the gap was only 5 points before Saturday, and is now 3. I wasted enough energy defending our prospects last season.

But I just got sent this and I thought I’d dip in briefly. It’s the table since the the end of December:

It’s fine to say that it’s unlikely that we’ll make the Play Offs. But, like I said last year, anyone who writes it off completely, despite knowing how crazy football can be, is a complete fool. 

You're right Dark Fruits but i don't like to say anything in case it tempts fate lol...judging by some on here if we just miss out it will be down to our manager being inept and poor at his job....on the other hand there are some that will think....do you know what? if we can get near to promotion with no major signings 3 to 4 big players from the previous season missing  and a load of kids imagine how we could do with a couple of good signings in key areas and a summer where the philosophy becomes more ingrained .....

[BondJovi]

2 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

You’re right. I probably would have. 

Football is a results business. The tangible measure of your success in a job is the results you get. 

Cocu deserves the credit for doing brilliantly now and equally, he deserved the criticism when we were struggling.

It’s been a great upturn but I genuinely believe we shouldn’t have been in that position in the first place.

Let’s hope things continue as they currently are.

Many managers in Cocu's position, dropping down the table,  would have abandoned all principles. But he didn't,  he has shown some serious courage and some gutsy decisions. We are now seeing the benefit of that.

I believe he has had the hardest job at this club since Nigel and all those fools mocking his accent and what not. He has not had the level of fan support at all that he deserved. He has shown this club huge respect and is doing exactly what he was appointed to do. About damn time that we gave him that respect back.

And yes promotion is possible, but part of me would rather we just fall short so we can destroy the league next season.

[May Contain Nuts]

22 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

You’re right. I probably would have. 

Football is a results business. The tangible measure of your success in a job is the results you get. 

Cocu deserves the credit for doing brilliantly now and equally, he deserved the criticism when we were struggling.

It’s been a great upturn but I genuinely believe we shouldn’t have been in that position in the first place.

Let’s hope things continue as they currently are.

I've liked the post, but it doesn't mean I agree.

I think the past 3 months have taught us, if anything, how to separate a poster's footballing opinion from the person themselves and their thoughts on other mattes, and allowed us an opportunity to see why people have come take the position they do.

The bit I've bolded,.I just don't think like that at all. I've said it before - giving credit to the manager is not as simple as saying  you give  him credit but only extending that credit for a short spell of time (untill they do something you disagree with again!)  it's giving them the benefit of the doubt and trusting their decisions over a far longer period

[DarkFruitsRam7]

8 minutes ago, S8TY said:

You're right Dark Fruits but i don't like to say anything in case it tempts fate lol...judging by some on here if we just miss out it will be down to our manager being inept and poor at his job....on the other hand there are some that will think....do you know what? if we can get near to promotion with no major signings 3 to 4 big players from the previous season missing  and a load of kids imagine how we could do with a couple of good signings in key areas and a summer where the philosophy becomes more ingrained .....

Oh I agree.

I just hate seeing people write off a 5-point gap when football, and all sport, is inherently crazy. If everyone had the “It’s impossible” attitude, nobody would have witnessed the turnaround at Elland Road last season. 

Leicester were Premier League champions four years ago for duck’s sake!

[jono]

35 minutes ago, Rampage said:

So which teams expect to hammer the Rams after yesterday. 

Good point. Daft thing is I thought if any or our last games was that banana skin it was yesterday. You sort of expected a Rowett team to set up, bore us to death and nick a late one - equaliser or winner - on the break. ... Then came King Louie the 1st 2nd and 3rd ? ... hissing Sid eat your heart out ! 

[ariotofmyown]

28 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I haven’t read this thread because I can’t be arsed to listen to people saying we have no chance of making the Play Offs, despite the fact that the gap was only 5 points before Saturday, and is now 3. I wasted enough energy defending our prospects last season.

But I just got sent this and I thought I’d dip in briefly. It’s the table since the the end of December:

It’s fine to say that it’s unlikely that we’ll make the Play Offs. But, like I said last year, anyone who writes it off completely, despite knowing how crazy football can be, is a complete fool. 

Crazy that Preston are 18 points from 14 in that period and still 6th.

Wigan are flying but are only 3 points off relegation.

No one is even managing 2 points a game either.