Coronavirus

[G STAR RAM]

17 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Yep it's definitely for sure, I bet even if there was a vaccine being rolled out we'd not know anything about it because the pesky press would totally ignore that bit of good news.

Got its 15 minutes off fame on the front page, nothing but negative stories since.

[Archied]

Nahhh I’m just being silly no way do we have any media and news manipulation/ ownership that’s any problem

[angieram]

Regarding silly videos, my great niece was in one! She is a paediatric nurse, was trained up for ICU at the beginning of the first lockdown, but was never used there as although admissions in her hospital were very busy, the specialist staff coped. 

In the meantime, she was working in an almost empty paediatric ward as people were either not being routinely referred, or were too scared to come into hospital. They did their little video more as a support to each other, to their colleagues in the ICU. I think they regret it now as it was widely circulated and misunderstood by many.

Cases then were much more unevenly spread across the country, London was the only place really overwhelmed and routine NHS care had been largely postponed. 

Three big differences this wave are that cases are much more widespread across the whole country as we know; so far the NHS is trying to continue care for non-COVID patients wherever they can, as well as catch up on the backlog from the first, more severe lockdown. Hence my great niece now being extremely busy working extra shifts.

Final difference is that the NHS has learned such a lot to help save lives of those affected, but this of course means longer stays in hospital for many patients who might have died in the first wave. This is putting extra pressure on beds.

I am sure that both Government and NHS colleagues will welcome any new treatment that impacts care for COVID patients in a positive way, regardless of where we are in a vaccination programme. But like the vaccines, the validation of such treatments takes time.

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, angieram said:

Regarding silly videos, my great niece was in one! She is a paediatric nurse, was trained up for ICU at the beginning of the first lockdown, but was never used there as although admissions in her hospital were very busy, the specialist staff coped. 

In the meantime, she was working in an almost empty paediatric ward as people were either not being routinely referred, or were too scared to come into hospital. They did their little video more as a support to each other, to their colleagues in the ICU. I think they regret it now as it was widely circulated and misunderstood by many.

Cases then were much more unevenly spread across the country, London was the only place really overwhelmed and routine NHS care had been largely postponed. 

Three big differences this wave are that cases are much more widespread across the whole country as we know; so far the NHS is trying to continue care for non-COVID patients wherever they can, as well as catch up on the backlog from the first, more severe lockdown. Hence my great niece now being extremely busy working extra shifts.

Final difference is that the NHS has learned such a lot to help save lives of those affected, but this of course means longer stays in hospital for many patients who might have died in the first wave. This is putting extra pressure on beds.

I am sure that both Government and NHS colleagues will welcome any new treatment that impacts care for COVID patients in a positive way, regardless of where we are in a vaccination programme. But like the vaccines, the validation of such treatments takes time.

So this should be really easy for hospitals or Government to show in terms of hard clear facts.

MAKE THE GENERAL PUBLIC SEE HOW BAD THE SITUATION IS!!!

Instead we are left with people all coming up with their own stats, many of which are backed up with evidence, that contradict the narrative.

[angieram]

18 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So this should be really easy for hospitals or Government to show in terms of hard clear facts.

MAKE THE GENERAL PUBLIC SEE HOW BAD THE SITUATION IS!!!

Instead we are left with people all coming up with their own stats, many of which are backed up with evidence, that contradict the narrative.

There's always the quantitative and qualitative- neither gives a full picture.

The data always lags a bit behind reality, and of course, every anecdotal account is personal. The next person's experience could be totally different. 

Not sure what the answer is, maybe to take an overview rather than relying on one source for your opinions (not you personally, but all of us.) 

[maxjam]

Part of the trouble is knowing who to believe anymore.

Two apparently 'reliable' sources saying the complete opposite...

 

 

[BIllyD]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

No, I certainly don't find it hard to believe the NHS is under pressure, as it is every year at this time.

I think people would find it much easier to believe though with stats that back the assertion up rather than contradict it.

At the moment it only appears to be anecdotal evidence. 

But I remember the same anecdotal evidence coming out of hospitals during the first wave only to later see the same hospitals treating Tik Tok to its staff pratting around doing silly dances in hospital settings, certainly not portraying the signs of being a workplace under stress or being overwhelmed.

Ah, the tik tok video shows they aren't under stress, should sack them on the spot for daring to brighten up their day. God forbid they may be having a lunch break, what were they thinking ?

As for the stats, I showed you some and you didn't want to believe them, here is some more https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9105459/amp/Hospital-staff-told-prepare-ventilate-patients-manually-oxygen-runs-low.html

We are admitting around 40-60 patients a day as well, that should give you some indication of when we will become completely full.

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

Ah, the tik tok video shows they aren't under stress, should sack them on the spot for daring to brighten up their day. God forbid they may be having a lunch break, what were they thinking ?

As for the stats, I showed you some and you didn't want to believe them, here is some more https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9105459/amp/Hospital-staff-told-prepare-ventilate-patients-manually-oxygen-runs-low.html

We are admitting around 40-60 patients a day as well, that should give you some indication of when we will become completely full.

Maybe we just have a different understanding of what words and phrases like 'overwhelmed' and 'on brink of collapse' mean.

The pictures from Italy to me portrayed a health system that was collapsing. Videos of people laughing, joking and dancing in the corridors of hospitals where people are dying in their thousands, comes across as misguided at best, disrespectful at worst to me.

If my workplace was under immense pressure to stay open the last thing on my mind would be choreographing something for Tik Tok...maybe its me that needs to lighten up a bit?

Sorry, what are the stats that you have showed me that I don't want to believe?

We may be admitting 40-60 today, are we not discharging any?

[Archied]

8 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

Ah, the tik tok video shows they aren't under stress, should sack them on the spot for daring to brighten up their day. God forbid they may be having a lunch break, what were they thinking ?

As for the stats, I showed you some and you didn't want to believe them, here is some more https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9105459/amp/Hospital-staff-told-prepare-ventilate-patients-manually-oxygen-runs-low.html

We are admitting around 40-60 patients a day as well, that should give you some indication of when we will become completely full.

Not disputing hospitals under pressure as I agree they are  but this is another area where wording and stats are often misleading ,,, hospital admissions count people who attend a&e ,they are counted as hospital admissions even if they are out and home in under an hour ,, 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

13 minutes ago, Archied said:

Not disputing hospitals under pressure as I agree they are  but this is another area where wording and stats are often misleading ,,, hospital admissions count people who attend a&e ,they are counted as hospital admissions even if they are out and home in under an hour ,, 

That would depend if there seen by the on call GP team in most A&E booked through 111.  All a bit different now.  Not all attendees would be counted as admissions.  They have a tier system based on likelihood of treatment - I believe those in tier 1 aren't counted.

[BIllyD]

21 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Maybe we just have a different understanding of what words and phrases like 'overwhelmed' and 'on brink of collapse' mean.

The pictures from Italy to me portrayed a health system that was collapsing. Videos of people laughing, joking and dancing in the corridors of hospitals where people are dying in their thousands, comes across as misguided at best, disrespectful at worst to me.

If my workplace was under immense pressure to stay open the last thing on my mind would be choreographing something for Tik Tok...maybe its me that needs to lighten up a bit?

Sorry, what are the stats that you have showed me that I don't want to believe?

We may be admitting 40-60 today, are we not discharging any?

Yup I'm sure people are being discharged, but I doubt they go in for an overnight stay, could be wrong though. By all accounts we have 1300 beds across the country spare, that's 21 days I believe at current rates ? Yes some will come out, but on the other hand that is across the country, so for me the numbers do appear to be near breaking point.

As for the video which I believe was done in April ?I do t really know much about it, was it all ICU staff that did it across the country ?

[Tamworthram]

36 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

Ah, the tik tok video shows they aren't under stress, should sack them on the spot for daring to brighten up their day. God forbid they may be having a lunch break, what were they thinking ?

As for the stats, I showed you some and you didn't want to believe them, here is some more https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9105459/amp/Hospital-staff-told-prepare-ventilate-patients-manually-oxygen-runs-low.html

We are admitting around 40-60 patients a day as well, that should give you some indication of when we will become completely full.

In terms of hospital admissions, obviously I don't know the purpose of their journey but I live on a housing estate in Tamworth with probably 1000 predominantly detached houses. Every evening bar one this week I have seen an ambulance with it's lights flashing passing by. I don't live on a through road so the ambulances MUST be going to houses on the estate. Very worrying.

[BIllyD]

29 minutes ago, Archied said:

Not disputing hospitals under pressure as I agree they are  but this is another area where wording and stats are often misleading ,,, hospital admissions count people who attend a&e ,they are counted as hospital admissions even if they are out and home in under an hour ,, 

I wouldnt disagree, thing is though you can take stats to read which ever way you want. When it comes to proving the NHS is not under pressure, we happy to present a graph without any detail behind it, yet the other way around we want surveillance photos of each bed, with full diagnosis of their condition, with full disclosure from the ward doctor that it's their hospital, without anyone in the background being on any electrical device as that shows them not to be busy ?

[BIllyD]

4 hours ago, jimmyp said:

Just to clarify it wasn’t just a request to cancel leave, that as you rightly said had already happened given the circumstances.
They now have consultant surgeons working icu nursing shifts  because they don’t have enough icu nurses. This isn’t instead of doing their normal already increased workload, they are doing both. The nurse to patient ratio in icu has dropped from 1:1 to 1:4. 

That's a worry. When I was in ICU, I was drugged to the eyeballs, including being on an epidural, I vaguely remember an episode where the curtains were drawn and several doctors came running in. It turned out that the machine I was connected to had detected I had stopped breathing and all sorts of alarms were triggered. As it turns out, I hadn't stopped breathing, more that I am naturally that way and the machine was unable to detect it. Therefore the machine was useless and instead for two nights I had a nurse sat there watching me, with a watch timing each breath I made to ensure nothing was wrong. Having 1-4 patients means that this could never happen.

This is why I don't buy Into stats telling the full story, this nurse spent her entire shift watching me, she may have gone and done a Tik tok video once she finished, if i was her I would have certainly needed something to help after that shift !

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Maybe we just have a different understanding of what words and phrases like 'overwhelmed' and 'on brink of collapse' mean.

The pictures from Italy to me portrayed a health system that was collapsing. Videos of people laughing, joking and dancing in the corridors of hospitals where people are dying in their thousands, comes across as misguided at best, disrespectful at worst to me.

If my workplace was under immense pressure to stay open the last thing on my mind would be choreographing something for Tik Tok...maybe its me that needs to lighten up a bit?

Sorry, what are the stats that you have showed me that I don't want to believe?

We may be admitting 40-60 today, are we not discharging any?

Jeez not this tik tok rubbish again.

So broadly, your point is that...

1) some nurses did some tik tok videos in April

2) which means that the entire nhs couldn't possibly have been at breaking point back then

3) which proves it probably isn't at breaking point now

4) but the evil government are saying it is because they want to keep us all locked up for unspecified reasons?

This smells similar to the early Covid days, when you played down the seriousness of it until the deaths started to mount.

I hope you are right this time, but almost nothing points to this being the case.

[jimmyp]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

Part of the trouble is knowing who to believe anymore.

Two apparently 'reliable' sources saying the complete opposite...

 

 

Both are believable it appears, just not the headline 5live used.

[Sith Happens]

I wonder how many unpaid hours nurses and doctors up and down the country have worked through this pandemic? I have no figures to back it up but im willing to bet thats its considerable, so even if the video was in work hours and it lifted spirits then that is fine with me.

 

 

 

 

[G STAR RAM]

33 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Jeez not this tik tok rubbish again.

So broadly, your point is that...

1) some nurses did some tik tok videos in April

2) which means that the entire nhs couldn't possibly have been at breaking point back then

3) which proves it probably isn't at breaking point now

4) but the evil government are saying it is because they want to keep us all locked up for unspecified reasons?

This smells similar to the early Covid days, when you played down the seriousness of it until the deaths started to mount.

I hope you are right this time, but almost nothing points to this being the case.

Feel free to interpret my point like that if you want, I personally thought you was a bit more intelligent. 

Of course you could flip the point on its head and say because 1 or 2 hospitals are struggling does it mean that the whole NHS is overwhelmed and at breaking point?

Would be pretty silly transferring patients from London to Yorkshire if that was the case.

Its not about me being right or wrong, its about accurate news being reported with facts to back it up, this in turn will lead to the general public having a bit more confidence in what they are being told and being more compliant with rules.

 

[Norman]

2 hours ago, BIllyD said:

Ah, the tik tok video shows they aren't under stress, should sack them on the spot for daring to brighten up their day. God forbid they may be having a lunch break, what were they thinking ?

It's a ducking poo decision imo. They tried to do it where I work. Ended up just Admin staff doing it.

Embarrassing. We all refused. It was an aerial wave idea, shot by a camera on a crane thing, stood in the car park. 

duck that. 

[ariotofmyown]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Feel free to interpret my point like that if you want, I personally thought you was a bit more intelligent. 

Of course you could flip the point on its head and say because 1 or 2 hospitals are struggling does it mean that the whole NHS is overwhelmed and at breaking point?

Would be pretty silly transferring patients from London to Yorkshire if that was the case.

Its not about me being right or wrong, its about accurate news being reported with facts to back it up, this in turn will lead to the general public having a bit more confidence in what they are being told and being more compliant with rules.

 

I think most people in England believe the situation at hospitals is pretty bad, and based on the rising cases, it's probably going to get worse. Most people trust what the NHS say.

Most people are fine that a handful of nurses were able to film themselves dancing back in April, especially if it gave them a small amount of relief from the very tough situation they faced. Most people admire and trust nurses as they do a difficult and important job for no great rewards, and have probably been well looked after by them if ever in hospital. 

Unfortunately, compliance with rules has taken a big hit since Cummings lied to the country and Johnson backed him up. I think you should ask yourself if this could have contributed to your doubts, rather than going back to those tik tok videos.