Eddie Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, jimmyp said: Same paper but more recent report; “Meanwhile, emergency Nightingalehospitals across England are being “readied” for use if needed. The NHS in London has been asked to make sure the Excel centre site is “reactivated and ready to admit patients” amid the struggle faced by the city’s healthcare workers.” https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/university-college-london-hospital-covid-only-icu-b611215.html Who knows if they will ever be used though?! One person's contingency is another person's redundancy. The problem with that is, you and I both know which option every regular poster on this thread would choose already, even before they are asked. It's like Monty Python's Election Night Special - Sensible Party v Silly Party (with a handful of bonus 'Very Silly' candidates). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 43 minutes ago, Archied said: They are being dismantled https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/covid-patients-england-nightingale-hospitals-b538294.html Not according to all reports...says some are in use. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-london-55503536 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said: I'm guessing he's referring to the Diamond Princess... the first cruise ship to have a significant number of cases on board (late Jan, early Feb). Yes I am mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 9 hours ago, Eddie said: One person's contingency is another person's redundancy. The problem with that is, you and I both know which option every regular poster on this thread would choose already, even before they are asked. It's like Monty Python's Election Night Special - Sensible Party v Silly Party (with a handful of bonus 'Very Silly' candidates). really,,,they may be doing a pr u turn again,,,think you will find my post on nhs have been far from silly(have a very decent source) where as you are posting your own far out numbers and death rate percentages with no clue to what your on about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Becoming increasingly hard to know what to beileve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Becoming increasingly hard to know what to beileve. Is it ? Have you changed your opinion then ? Potentially some good news....https://swprs.org/who-preliminary-review-confirms-ivermectin-effectiveness/ Doesnt seem to have got much press coverage for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 9 minutes ago, BIllyD said: Is it ? Have you changed your opinion then ? Potentially some good news....https://swprs.org/who-preliminary-review-confirms-ivermectin-effectiveness/ Doesnt seem to have got much press coverage for some reason. Changed my mind on what? The stories from the last few days have seemed to be that numbers of patients are getting out of control but the tweets I posted seem to indicate that ICU usage in London is at 60% of what it was in the first wave? Good news doesnt get any press coverage these days, that is for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Changed my mind on what? The stories from the last few days have seemed to be that numbers of patients are getting out of control but the tweets I posted seem to indicate that ICU usage in London is at 60% of what it was in the first wave? Good news doesnt get any press coverage these days, that is for sure. I think but may be wrong, you have always opined that the NHS is not under pressure and this is not an accurate statement ? So I wondered if you had changed your mind giving it's getting hard to know what to believe ? In the data you provided, it shows London as a whole, do you know what the breakdown is per hospital ? I think the normal capacity is between 30-50 beds only, I would have thought the overall capacity is irrelevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Just now, BIllyD said: I think but may be wrong, you have always opined that the NHS is not under pressure and this is not an accurate statement ? So I wondered if you had changed your mind giving it's getting hard to know what to believe ? In the data you provided, it shows London as a whole, do you know what the breakdown is per hospital ? I think the normal capacity is between 30-50 beds only, I would have thought the overall capacity is irrelevant? Ive always opined that the stats do not back up the narrative that the NHS is under more pressure than in any normal year. @jimmypobviously has family that are frontline and taking his comments on board did make me think that maybe the situation is worse than I believed, although I don't think staff being asked not to take leave is any major indicator, that is normal in any business at busy times. I'm not sure why the overall capacity is irrelevant, surely if one hospital is struggling you would use the nearest hospital with spare capacity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 21 minutes ago, BIllyD said: Is it ? Have you changed your opinion then ? Potentially some good news....https://swprs.org/who-preliminary-review-confirms-ivermectin-effectiveness/ Doesnt seem to have got much press coverage for some reason. You’ve opened up a can of conspiracy theory worms there mate ,, a cheap and already available treatment drug that cuts by 83% an already very small death rate percentage that only needs to be administered to those that actually need it ( not much press coverage) versus a vaccine that needs two doses administered to everyone in the world and endless lockdowns that seem to be filled with contradictions that make no sense,,,,, erm you start to wonder about articles by bmj posted on here regards conflict s of interest in science and medicine regards money and career s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Just now, G STAR RAM said: Ive always opined that the stats do not back up the narrative that the NHS is under more pressure than in any normal year. @jimmypobviously has family that are frontline and taking his comments on board did make me think that maybe the situation is worse than I believed, although I don't think staff being asked not to take leave is any major indicator, that is normal in any business at busy times. I'm not sure why the overall capacity is irrelevant, surely if one hospital is struggling you would use the nearest hospital with spare capacity? If it was only that easy to transfer a patient. Very difficult when they are in ICU, although they are doing it. Just for balance, plenty more available as well that backs this up ...https://www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/london-critical-care-patients-could-be-sent-to-yorkshire-as-capitals-icus-top-100pc-occupancy/7029237.article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, Archied said: You’ve opened up a can of conspiracy theory worms there mate ,, a cheap and already available treatment drug that cuts by 83% an already very small death rate percentage that only needs to be administered to those that actually need it ( not much press coverage) versus a vaccine that needs two doses administered to everyone in the world and endless lockdowns that seem to be filled with contradictions that make no sense,,,,, erm you start to wonder about articles by bmj posted on here regards conflict s of interest in science and medicine regards money and career s But you want to stop the hospital admission in the first place don't you, which is what the vaccine is designed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, BIllyD said: If it was only that easy to transfer a patient. Very difficult when they are in ICU, although they are doing it. Just for balance, plenty more available as well that backs this up ...https://www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/london-critical-care-patients-could-be-sent-to-yorkshire-as-capitals-icus-top-100pc-occupancy/7029237.article See this is where I get confused:- as leaked figures reveal that critical care is running at more than 100 per cent of capacity across the south east and east of England. Yet all the figures I have looked through, I have been unable to find anything that backs that statement up. Possibly due to a time lag in the reporting of figures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: See this is where I get confused:- as leaked figures reveal that critical care is running at more than 100 per cent of capacity across the south east and east of England. Yet all the figures I have looked through, I have been unable to find anything that backs that statement up. Possibly due to a time lag in the reporting of figures? Maybe or it could be scaremongering to justify the lock downs. There are that many figures and graphs flying around, there is enough to give evidence to both. How much is credible though from either side who knows, the information often appears to be presented in such a way that it never really tells the full story. On my Facebook page today I had one post showing a letter coming back from the NHS under the freedom act being used as evidence that COVID figures had been inflated etc...thousands had shared yet it was clear the letter had been doctored, people were believing what they wanted to. That's why I was more interested in if you really did find it hard to believe, or just that the graph backed your opinion. I tend to believe that the NHS is under pressure, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it's being over exaggerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 38 minutes ago, BIllyD said: But you want to stop the hospital admission in the first place don't you, which is what the vaccine is designed to do. Well you say that but is it not a question of how much care is needed , whether you could use places like nightingales, whether staff could be recruited and trained quickly as the level of training may not be icu standard and very focused on COVID ,given the emerging contradictions around vaccine supply ( gov one story ,manufacturer’s another) the gov going against the scientists instructions on use , the logistics / timescale of getting everybody vaccinated ,I would say there’s a case for investigating the options becoming available but as you say ,not much will seems to be apparent in anything other than vaccinate the world and lock down the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 49 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Ive always opined that the stats do not back up the narrative that the NHS is under more pressure than in any normal year. @jimmypobviously has family that are frontline and taking his comments on board did make me think that maybe the situation is worse than I believed, although I don't think staff being asked not to take leave is any major indicator, that is normal in any business at busy times. I'm not sure why the overall capacity is irrelevant, surely if one hospital is struggling you would use the nearest hospital with spare capacity? Just to clarify it wasn’t just a request to cancel leave, that as you rightly said had already happened given the circumstances. They now have consultant surgeons working icu nursing shifts because they don’t have enough icu nurses. This isn’t instead of doing their normal already increased workload, they are doing both. The nurse to patient ratio in icu has dropped from 1:1 to 1:4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 57 minutes ago, BIllyD said: Maybe or it could be scaremongering to justify the lock downs. There are that many figures and graphs flying around, there is enough to give evidence to both. How much is credible though from either side who knows, the information often appears to be presented in such a way that it never really tells the full story. On my Facebook page today I had one post showing a letter coming back from the NHS under the freedom act being used as evidence that COVID figures had been inflated etc...thousands had shared yet it was clear the letter had been doctored, people were believing what they wanted to. That's why I was more interested in if you really did find it hard to believe, or just that the graph backed your opinion. I tend to believe that the NHS is under pressure, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it's being over exaggerated. No, I certainly don't find it hard to believe the NHS is under pressure, as it is every year at this time. I think people would find it much easier to believe though with stats that back the assertion up rather than contradict it. At the moment it only appears to be anecdotal evidence. But I remember the same anecdotal evidence coming out of hospitals during the first wave only to later see the same hospitals treating Tik Tok to its staff pratting around doing silly dances in hospital settings, certainly not portraying the signs of being a workplace under stress or being overwhelmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Good news doesnt get any press coverage these days, that is for sure. Yep it's definitely for sure, I bet even if there was a vaccine being rolled out we'd not know anything about it because the pesky press would totally ignore that bit of good news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 9 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said: Yep it's definitely for sure, I bet even if there was a vaccine being rolled out we'd not know anything about it because the pesky press would totally ignore that bit of good news. Depends who it’s good news for ,,,, the news there’s a cheap readily available treatment that cuts an already tiny death percentage by a further 83 % that only needs to be administered to those needing it is perhaps really only good news to the ordinary man/ women on the streets ,,,, not quite so good for big pharma and the big business that are making fortunes through this whether by chance or otherwise??♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, Archied said: Depends who it’s good news for ,,,, the news there’s a cheap readily available treatment that cuts an already tiny death percentage by a further 83 % that only needs to be administered to those needing it is perhaps really only good news to the ordinary man/ women on the streets ,,,, not quite so good for big pharma and the big business that are making fortunes through this whether by chance or otherwise??♂️ Imagine the news that it turns out we don’t need to buy vaccine for every person on the planet and probably not a one off ala flu vaccine, my that would be a gutting blow to some Ehh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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