Coronavirus

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

All this stuff is easily fixed by having clear figures put out by the government,  how many people are in hospital beds being treated for Covid , how many people actually die of Covid not within 28 days of testing positive, how many people that have tested positive in our mass untargeted tested ting have gone on to die or be hospitalised,,,,,,,,there you have clear unambiguous figures and stats the public can get onboard with ,

heard an interview the other day ( can’t remember who) that stated the problem was that for many reasons the gov have failed to take people with them and it’s true 

if our health service cannot cope through years of underfunding then bloody say so then we can all get on board with what needs doing NOW to save lives and have some positivety that lessons can be learnt for moving forwards 

Is it that simple though?

For example, I might be completely wrong and so am standing ready to be rightly ridiculed (not for the first time) but, does anybody actually die from Covid itself? I thought it will attack parts of the body that may ultimately result in death. For severe example, pneumonia, heart problems and kidney failure. So, Covid may not ever be the sole cause of death on the death certificate.

 

[Gritstone Ram]

One thing I have realised during all this is that I can’t believe what a nation of moaners we are. I actually believe that if people didn’t have anything to moan about they would moan about it.

[G STAR RAM]

9 hours ago, jimmyp said:

I presume she was talking about icu nurse to patient ratio.

Normally it’s 1:1 ( 1 nurse 1 patient)

They then allowed 1:2 (1 nurse to 2 patients)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/08/nhs-england-suspends-one-to-one-nursing-for-critically-ill-covid-patients

“The 1:2 ratio is a maximum ratio, to be used only to support Covid activity, [and] not for planned care, and is not sustainable in the long term. This protects staff and patients”, she said.”

Some hospitals in London, Kent, Essex etc are currently at a 1:4 ratio.

One example below.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/kent-hospitals-coronavirus-nhs-beds-b1781315.htmlhttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/kent-hospitals-coronavirus-nhs-beds-b1781315.html

Lets hope it slows down soon in those areas. 

Not sure why we would assume this because it is clearly not what she said.

On the basis that the rest of her comments have been rubbished by other medical professionals, I will stick to assuming that the comments were at best misguided, or ar worst blatant lies, all repeated by the BBC.

[Albert]

3 hours ago, Archied said:

All this stuff is easily fixed by having clear figures put out by the government,  how many people are in hospital beds being treated for Covid , how many people actually die of Covid not within 28 days of testing positive, how many people that have tested positive in our mass untargeted tested ting have gone on to die or be hospitalised,,,,,,,,there you have clear unambiguous figures and stats the public can get onboard with ,

They release the figure for people who die with Covid listed as a cause too. As of today, it's 74,570 within 28 days of a positive test and 82,624 with Covid on the death certificate. The 28 days rule misses people due to a few reasons, notably that Covid can actually take longer than 28 days to kill.

 

[sonofmidnight]

Why does the government persist with the line that schools are safe. No they are not. This new variant is spreading more effectively amongst younger people who then take it home and spread it to their families. Teachers are in the firing line and are expected to do their job with little or no protection. If teachers are expected to work in schools they should be amongst the first to be protected. I am a retired teacher and have 3 sons in teaching. We need to close schools now to prevent this new variant swamping the NHS enen more. But as usual the government will react too late. Ask yourself this question,would you be happy with kids coughing in your face nearly everday because that's what my son is experiencing. I'm very worried and very angry!

[jimmyp]

15 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not sure why we would assume this because it is clearly not what she said.

On the basis that the rest of her comments have been rubbished by other medical professionals, I will stick to assuming that the comments were at best misguided, or ar worst blatant lies, all repeated by the BBC.

 If we ignore everything that she said on the basis it’s misguided or lies .
 

The icu nurse ratios in many hospitals are at the levels that I have stated. 
 

[alexxxxx]

6 minutes ago, Sinistra ram rousse said:

Why does the government persist with the line that schools are safe. No they are not. This new variant is spreading more effectively amongst younger people who then take it home and spread it to their families. Teachers are in the firing line and are expected to do their job with little or no protection. If teachers are expected to work in schools they should be amongst the first to be protected. I am a retired teacher and have 3 sons in teaching. We need to close schools now to prevent this new variant swamping the NHS enen more. But as usual the government will react too late. Ask yourself this question,would you be happy with kids coughing in your face nearly everday because that's what my son is experiencing. I'm very worried and very angry!

If schools are safe then why does boris think they need to close them in the future. Secondary schools quite obviously spread covid and to say they don't is just ridiculous. We're now at the point where serious operations are getting cancelled in London. Schools open vs Pubs open is an easy decision but schools open vs Cancer operations is completely different. 

The virus is now nearly uncontrollable as the new variant makes existing covid measures less effective. 

[G STAR RAM]

24 minutes ago, jimmyp said:

 If we ignore everything that she said on the basis it’s misguided or lies .
 

The icu nurse ratios in many hospitals are at the levels that I have stated. 
 

Thats bad...

...but also completely irrelevant to the point of the post.

[G STAR RAM]

33 minutes ago, Albert said:

They release the figure for people who die with Covid listed as a cause too. As of today, it's 74,570 within 28 days of a positive test and 82,624 with Covid on the death certificate. The 28 days rule misses people due to a few reasons, notably that Covid can actually take longer than 28 days to kill.

Just as the higher figure will include people that have died of things completely unrelated to Covid.

[Albert]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Just as the higher figure will include people that have died of things completely unrelated to Covid.

Do you have any evidence to suggest that such is systematically happening? We know that the 28 days number is an underestimate, and we know that people can die of undiagnosed Covid. Even the higher figure may well be an underestimate. 

[jimmyp]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Thats bad...

...but also completely irrelevant to the point of the post.

Sorry did I stray to far away from the point you were trying to make? My bad!

Yes the ICU situation isn’t good. 

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, jimmyp said:

Sorry did I stray to far away from the point you were trying to make? My bad!

Yes the ICU situation isn’t good. 

Yes, I'm pretty sure that you have been quite vocal about misinformation being spread, when the information was something that you did not agree with.

Yet on this occasion rather than criticise the spreading of misinformation you thought it better to assume the person telling the lies was saying something different to what she actually said.

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, Albert said:

Do you have any evidence to suggest that such is systematically happening? We know that the 28 days number is an underestimate, and we know that people can die of undiagnosed Covid. Even the higher figure may well be an underestimate. 

No, do you have any evidence to suggest that such is not systermatically happening?

There has been plenty of anecdotal evidence over here of people saying that relatives are having death recorded as Covid deaths when they are clearly not but its not something that I would heavily rely on.

 

[jimmyp]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

Yes, I'm pretty sure that you have been quite vocal about misinformation being spread, when the information was something that you did not agree with.

Yet on this occasion rather than criticise the spreading of information you thought it better to assume the person telling the lies was saying something different to what she actually said.

No I was answering a question I thought you were asking in relation to staffing. 
I posted yesterday I was glad that the RCPCH had released a statement of facts. I’m also glad that the bbc have since posted more info as another poster has pointed out. 
Mis information is bad.

 

[Albert]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No, do you have any evidence to suggest that such is not systermatically happening?

There has been plenty of anecdotal evidence over here of people saying that relatives are having death recorded as Covid deaths when they are clearly not but its not something that I would heavily rely on.

Well, as noted numerous times on here, just basic logic rules out the 'dying with Covid, not of Covid' silliness. 

The population of the UK is about 66.65 million, and about 600,000 people die per year. This means that for any given 28 day period, all other things being equal you'd expect about 69 people per 100,000 to die from standard causes. The UK has had 2,599,789 confirmed cases of Covid, so even assuming that every one of those cases is resolved (which they are not), you would only expect 1794 to have died of all causes in that 28 day window, while the actual figure is 74,570. 

Data regarding median days to death once infected with Covid is out there if you're actually interested, but the key point is that a non-negligible fraction do die after the 28 day period. Given we know full well that the number of deaths cannot be attributed to other causes for the 28 day period, and know people die after 28 days, we know full well that the figure is an underestimate. 

The number of people dying 'with Covid, not of Covid', is a small fraction of the total numbers, and it's odd that it's something that certain people keep going back to, as though the death figures are somehow 'wrong'. I wonder why some would try and obfuscate the scale of deaths. 

[BIllyD]

18 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No, do you have any evidence to suggest that such is not systermatically happening?

There has been plenty of anecdotal evidence over here of people saying that relatives are having death recorded as Covid deaths when they are clearly not but its not something that I would heavily rely on.

 

Hold on, you harp on about spreading of misinformation on a previous post and then happy to spread your own take based on anecdotal evidence from something you heard, brilliant ??

 

[G STAR RAM]

26 minutes ago, Albert said:

Well, as noted numerous times on here, just basic logic rules out the 'dying with Covid, not of Covid' silliness. 

The population of the UK is about 66.65 million, and about 600,000 people die per year. This means that for any given 28 day period, all other things being equal you'd expect about 69 people per 100,000 to die from standard causes. The UK has had 2,599,789 confirmed cases of Covid, so even assuming that every one of those cases is resolved (which they are not), you would only expect 1794 to have died of all causes in that 28 day window, while the actual figure is 74,570. 

Data regarding median days to death once infected with Covid is out there if you're actually interested, but the key point is that a non-negligible fraction do die after the 28 day period. Given we know full well that the number of deaths cannot be attributed to other causes for the 28 day period, and know people die after 28 days, we know full well that the figure is an underestimate. 

The number of people dying 'with Covid, not of Covid', is a small fraction of the total numbers, and it's odd that it's something that certain people keep going back to, as though the death figures are somehow 'wrong'. I wonder why some would try and obfuscate the scale of deaths. 

Could have saved yourself a lot of typing there and just said, no I don't have no evidence.

[Albert]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

Could have saved yourself a lot of typing there and just said, no I don't have no evidence.

...now, you've put in some poor, lazy replies in the past, but this absolutely takes the cake. 

All the evidence you need is right there, this is literally just you denying evidence in front of you because you don't like it. 

[G STAR RAM]

23 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

Hold on, you harp on about spreading of misinformation on a previous post and then happy to spread your own take based on anecdotal evidence from something you heard, brilliant ??

 

Have another go at reading the post.

I said I have heard anecdotal evidence but don't rely heavily upon it.

You're clever enough to know the difference between me forming an opinion based upon anecdotal evidence and a medical professional going on the BBC and saying things that she knows not to be true.

Good attempt at trying to deflect away from the issue but didn't work on this occasion unfortunately.

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, Albert said:

...now, you've put in some poor, lazy replies in the past, but this absolutely takes the cake. 

All the evidence you need is right there, this is literally just you denying evidence in front of you because you don't like it. 

You're assuming that the Covid pandemic is not leading to deaths from other causes.

You might be right, you might be wrong.

Putting 'we know' and 'I've already proven' into your posts when both statements are false doesnt change anything.