Coronavirus

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, Norman said:

It's a ducking poo decision imo. They tried to do it where I work. Ended up just Admin staff doing it.

Embarrassing. We all refused. It was an aerial wave idea, shot by a camera on a crane thing, stood in the car park. 

duck that. 

As long as they did it quietly so as not to disturb the thousands dying around them I don't see the problem.

It was done to lighten the mood apparently, was considering doing one myself at the next funeral I get to go to!

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I think most people in England believe the situation at hospitals is pretty bad, and based on the rising cases, it's probably going to get worse. Most people trust what the NHS say.

Most people are fine that a handful of nurses were able to film themselves dancing back in April, especially if it gave them a small amount of relief from the very tough situation they faced. Most people admire and trust nurses as they do a difficult and important job for no great rewards, and have probably been well looked after by them if ever in hospital. 

Unfortunately, compliance with rules has taken a big hit since Cummings lied to the country and Johnson backed him up. I think you should ask yourself if this could have contributed to your doubts, rather than going back to those tik tok videos.

Yeah, I think the situation in hospitals will be bad, whether it is any worse than this time of any normal year I am not convinced either way.

I am fine with nurses doing Tik Tok dances in hospitals, does not bother me but it will lead to me making my own conclusions about how much pressure hospitals were under at the time.

Re Cummings, asked myself the question lots of times and always came to the same conclusion, an extremely large number of people would not have the slightest clue who Dominic Cummings was before the media, all vying for the best gotcha moment during the pandemic, thrust him into the spotlight. Why not use the asian labour mp that attended a funeral as your example?

[BIllyD]

18 minutes ago, Norman said:

It's a ducking poo decision imo. They tried to do it where I work. Ended up just Admin staff doing it.

Embarrassing. We all refused. It was an aerial wave idea, shot by a camera on a crane thing, stood in the car park. 

duck that. 

A poor decision at the time, a stick to beat them with for 6 months, likening it do doing a dance at a funeral....possibly by the "Holier Than Thou" brigade ? 

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

A poor decision at the time, a stick to beat them with for 6 months, likening it do doing a dance at a funeral....possibly by the "Holier Than Thou" brigade ? 

Where have I used it as a stick to beat them with?

Nowhere have I said anything about the quality of the work they do.

Just that I dont think it is the sort of thing they would have been doing if their situation mirrored what was being reported.

Once again, I know you are clearly intelligent enough to be able to work this out.

[Norman]

5 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

A poor decision at the time, a stick to beat them with for 6 months, likening it do doing a dance at a funeral....possibly by the "Holier Than Thou" brigade ? 

I don't really care either way. But anyone involved in them - especially the highly choreographed ones - should have taken a step back and had a think. 

The worst part for me at my work was that we were highly encouraged to participate by management. 

We were all working overtime to keep things running and they wanted us to practice doing a wave on in the car park at lunch. 

Not a fan. Just my opinion. But not really bothered either way. Just find it cringy.

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, Norman said:

I don't really care either way. But anyone involved in them - especially the highly choreographed ones - should have taken a step back and had a think. 

The worst part for me at my work was that we were highly encouraged to participate by management. 

We were all working overtime to keep things running and they wanted us to practice doing a wave on in the car park at lunch. 

Not a fan. Just my opinion. But not really bothered either way. Just find it cringy.

Just because you didn't get the lead part you shouldn't be so grouchy 

[ariotofmyown]

5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yeah, I think the situation in hospitals will be bad, whether it is any worse than this time of any normal year I am not convinced either way.

I am fine with nurses doing Tik Tok dances in hospitals, does not bother me but it will lead to me making my own conclusions about how much pressure hospitals were under at the time.

Re Cummings, asked myself the question lots of times and always came to the same conclusion, an extremely large number of people would not have the slightest clue who Dominic Cummings was before the media, all vying for the best gotcha moment during the pandemic, thrust him into the spotlight. Why not use the asian labour mp that attended a funeral as your example?

If the hospital situation is now only as bad as a really bad flu year, do you think the situation has now peaked, or do you think those escalating cases and hospitals admissions are not a real cause for concern? 

As for Cummings, even if no one had heard of him beforehand, you clearly had. How did you feel when the PMs head advisor didn't just break the rules, but then blatantly lied to the country? Then the weak PM and cabinet all unconvincingly backed him up.

I don't know the circumstances of the Labour MP you mention. Plenty of other public figures have stupidly broken the rules, but I can't remember many who:

1) Knew they were probably infected then went back into work

2) Knew they were infected, then drove 200 miles to a different home, meaning they potentially spread Covid when their son became ill and had to take him to hospital. Exactly why the no travel rules were in place.

3) Drove again with family to somewhere else, against the rules, then lied it was to "test their eyesight'

4) Maintain they never returned back to second home, and that they have phone records to prove this, but then refuse to release phone records when asked.

5) Pretend they had been blogging in the past about the dangers of pandemics such as this, only for it to be discovered that they had recently added this information to their old blogs.

6) Had a wife who worked as a columnist who wrote about life in London during lockdown, who had actually been away at a different home.

You know all this but think it was just some media gotcha? This was a main player who was behind making the rules. What did you think when Gove said that he had driven to test his eyesight too?

I'm surprised that this isn't a major factor in your distrust of government information, certainly more than a few tik tok videos.

[Archied]

34 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yeah, I think the situation in hospitals will be bad, whether it is any worse than this time of any normal year I am not convinced either way.

I am fine with nurses doing Tik Tok dances in hospitals, does not bother me but it will lead to me making my own conclusions about how much pressure hospitals were under at the time.

Re Cummings, asked myself the question lots of times and always came to the same conclusion, an extremely large number of people would not have the slightest clue who Dominic Cummings was before the media, all vying for the best gotcha moment during the pandemic, thrust him into the spotlight. Why not use the asian labour mp that attended a funeral as your example?

For me it wasn’t Cummings doing what he did , as you say there’s plenty of them to choose from ,,,, the bit that did the damage was the way the government handled it ,,, that press conference from Downing Street garden and then boris and the rest of the cabinet defending him was the point that mattered most , lost any belief that any of the main players running this whole situation has an ounce of personal or professional integrity 

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

If the hospital situation is now only as bad as a really bad flu year, do you think the situation has now peaked, or do you think those escalating cases and hospitals admissions are not a real cause for concern? 

As for Cummings, even if no one had heard of him beforehand, you clearly had. How did you feel when the PMs head advisor didn't just break the rules, but then blatantly lied to the country? Then the weak PM and cabinet all unconvincingly backed him up.

I don't know the circumstances of the Labour MP you mention. Plenty of other public figures have stupidly broken the rules, but I can't remember many who:

1) Knew they were probably infected then went back into work

2) Knew they were infected, then drove 200 miles to a different home, meaning they potentially spread Covid when their son became ill and had to take him to hospital. Exactly why the no travel rules were in place.

3) Drove again with family to somewhere else, against the rules, then lied it was to "test their eyesight'

4) Maintain they never returned back to second home, and that they have phone records to prove this, but then refuse to release phone records when asked.

5) Pretend they had been blogging in the past about the dangers of pandemics such as this, only for it to be discovered that they had recently added this information to their old blogs.

6) Had a wife who worked as a columnist who wrote about life in London during lockdown, who had actually been away at a different home.

You know all this but think it was just some media gotcha? This was a main player who was behind making the rules. What did you think when Gove said that he had driven to test his eyesight too?

I'm surprised that this isn't a major factor in your distrust of government information, certainly more than a few tik tok videos.

Escalating cases are of course a cause for concern, especially when large parts of the country if been in virtual lockdown to stop this from happening. 

I hope that the cases are now arising more in the age/health categories of people that are less likely to be affected/become seriously ill.

You can't remember any more because you chose Cummings as the scapegoat for anyone breaking the rules early on and therefore could pass over any non Conservative MPs breaking the rules.

I said at the time that I thought Cummings should have been sacked. I wonder if he had whether the ones screaming this from the rooftops would be applying the same standards for people like Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon that have since broke the rules? No need to answer that by the way because we all know the answer already.

As for Gove, I have no opinion on what he said, give me evidence that he lied and I will say that he should be sacked too.

I have absolutely no idea how you have managed to try and link my thoughts on the Tik Tok videos to my mistrust of the Government.

[BIllyD]

26 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Where have I used it as a stick to beat them with?

Nowhere have I said anything about the quality of the work they do.

Just that I dont think it is the sort of thing they would have been doing if their situation mirrored what was being reported.

Once again, I know you are clearly intelligent enough to be able to work this out.

You stated that "But I remember the same anecdotal evidence coming out of hospitals during the first wave only to later see the same hospitals treating Tik Tok to its staff pratting around doing silly dances in hospital settings, certainly not portraying the signs of being a workplace under stress or being overwhelmed."

Looks like a stick to beat them to me, why else bring it up ? 

[Rev]

24 minutes ago, Norman said:

I don't really care either way. But anyone involved in them - especially the highly choreographed ones - should have taken a step back and had a think. 

The worst part for me at my work was that we were highly encouraged to participate by management. 

We were all working overtime to keep things running and they wanted us to practice doing a wave on in the car park at lunch. 

Not a fan. Just my opinion. But not really bothered either way. Just find it cringy.

Just think of the headlines.

'Screws get views'.

'Tik-Tok in the cell block'.

'Jailhouse ?'s'.

'Mass escape of murderous convicts as staff dance in the Exercise Yard'.

[Archied]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Escalating cases are of course a cause for concern, especially when large parts of the country if been in virtual lockdown to stop this from happening. 

I hope that the cases are now arising more in the age/health categories of people that are less likely to be affected/become seriously ill.

You can't remember any more because you chose Cummings as the scapegoat for anyone breaking the rules early on and therefore could pass over any non Conservative MPs breaking the rules.

I said at the time that I thought Cummings should have been sacked. I wonder if he had whether the ones screaming this from the rooftops would be applying the same standards for people like Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon that have since broke the rules? No need to answer that by the way because we all know the answer already.

As for Gove, I have no opinion on what he said, give me evidence that he lied and I will say that he should be sacked too.

I have absolutely no idea how you have managed to try and link my thoughts on the Tik Tok videos to my mistrust of the Government.

The lady mp for snp was terrible too and has refused to resign , labour have them , it runs through all the parties ,,it’s  a real sad state of affairs , I’m gonna find it very hard to vote again ( stopped for a long time before) 

[G STAR RAM]

43 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

You stated that "But I remember the same anecdotal evidence coming out of hospitals during the first wave only to later see the same hospitals treating Tik Tok to its staff pratting around doing silly dances in hospital settings, certainly not portraying the signs of being a workplace under stress or being overwhelmed."

Looks like a stick to beat them to me, why else bring it up ? 

To show that we have been told hospitals have been under huge pressure before when to outsiders it would appear they were not?

I related it to my own personal views ie: doing silly dances for internet likes would be the last thing on my mind if I was overworked with thousands of people dying around me. But there again I have never worked in such a setting so my view may be massively out of touch. 

As you or others have posted, the dances were done in their dinner times or spare time though, which is their prerogative and in no way reflects on the job that they were doing.

Like I said, my view of a collapsing health system were the pictures coming out of China and Italy early on in the pandemic, not of staff dancing around the corridors of hospitals.

Doesn't mean I am right, it is just my view. You obviously don't share it which is equally fine, and if you provide me with stats that show I am talking rubbish and that the hospitals were overwhelmed I will gladly retract my statements.

[maxjam]

5 hours ago, jimmyp said:

Both are believable it appears, just not the headline 5live used.

 

Nice little backtrack from the BBC here with a non-apology tweet

 

 

[Comrade 86]

Suspect the more important issue than the ever unreliable media might be the fact itself that kids are indeed susceptible to the new strain. Thankfully, it seems clear it's not as serious for them as one report suggested, though I wonder whether the same can be said for all those they then infect? 

[G STAR RAM]

20 minutes ago, maxjam said:

 

Nice little backtrack from the BBC here with a non-apology tweet

 

 

My favourite quote from the radio clip was:-

"...in intensive care you could have up to 2 or 3 very sick ventilated patients which is way beyond what you should have..."

I mean what level of way beyond are we talking? 1, 2 or 3 patients more than expected?

Although obviously the BBC would report that as 100% or 200% above normal levels...

[jimmyp]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

My favourite quote from the radio clip was:-

"...in intensive care you could have up to 2 or 3 very sick ventilated patients which is way beyond what you should have..."

I mean what level of way beyond are we talking? 1, 2 or 3 patients more than expected?

Although obviously the BBC would report that as 100% or 200% above normal levels...

I presume she was talking about icu nurse to patient ratio.

Normally it’s 1:1 ( 1 nurse 1 patient)

They then allowed 1:2 (1 nurse to 2 patients)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/08/nhs-england-suspends-one-to-one-nursing-for-critically-ill-covid-patients

“The 1:2 ratio is a maximum ratio, to be used only to support Covid activity, [and] not for planned care, and is not sustainable in the long term. This protects staff and patients”, she said.”

 

Some hospitals in London, Kent, Essex etc are currently at a 1:4 ratio.

One example below.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/kent-hospitals-coronavirus-nhs-beds-b1781315.htmlhttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/kent-hospitals-coronavirus-nhs-beds-b1781315.html

 

 

Lets hope it slows down soon in those areas. 

[jimmyp]

2 hours ago, maxjam said:

 

Nice little backtrack from the BBC here with a non-apology tweet

 

 

Thank god the RCPCH made a statement, BBC probably would of done nothing otherwise! 

[ramesses]

1 hour ago, jimmyp said:

Thank god the RCPCH made a statement, BBC probably would of done nothing otherwise! 

The BBC news site seems fairly clear that professors and consultants in the area have a very different understanding of the situation and don’t agree with what the nurse said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55518248

A quick look elsewhere on the internet suggests that most are confused about why she said what she said. Opinions range from conspiracy theories to the idea that she phoned in on impulse to try and get across the idea that younger adults (not just older adults) can end up in hospital with covid - but it all got garbled up in her head.

I expect, her boss will be asking her some questions about this when she gets back to work.

[Archied]

4 hours ago, ramesses said:

The BBC news site seems fairly clear that professors and consultants in the area have a very different understanding of the situation and don’t agree with what the nurse said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55518248

A quick look elsewhere on the internet suggests that most are confused about why she said what she said. Opinions range from conspiracy theories to the idea that she phoned in on impulse to try and get across the idea that younger adults (not just older adults) can end up in hospital with covid - but it all got garbled up in her head.

I expect, her boss will be asking her some questions about this when she gets back to work.

All this stuff is easily fixed by having clear figures put out by the government,  how many people are in hospital beds being treated for Covid , how many people actually die of Covid not within 28 days of testing positive, how many people that have tested positive in our mass untargeted tested ting have gone on to die or be hospitalised,,,,,,,,there you have clear unambiguous figures and stats the public can get onboard with ,

heard an interview the other day ( can’t remember who) that stated the problem was that for many reasons the gov have failed to take people with them and it’s true 

if our health service cannot cope through years of underfunding then bloody say so then we can all get on board with what needs doing NOW to save lives and have some positivety that lessons can be learnt for moving forwards