GboroRam Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 12 minutes ago, maxjam said: The State has gained power, Big tech has gained wealth. I don't believe I ever said Governments had ulterior motives - or at least I didn't intend to. I do however believe the power and wealth gained are a 'happy consequence' of measures introduced to combat the pandemic - and unlikely to be given away once we're through the other side. I don't think I have any issue with that. I suppose all I'd say to those people who point out how much wealth has gone to the likes of Bezos - do you think he needed the pandemic to build his empire, or was it just accelerated by it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Archied said: Nope , that’s exactly the I’m right and if you don’t agree it means your exactly what I say you are and then a load of made up offensive generalised nonsense about cheap burgers ( can you point me to her page so I can confirm she won’t take vaccine but will buy cheap burgers) tagged on the end ??, ,,,, anti science ?????? I’m not even going to bother pointing out your silly manipulation of your view or nothing The science literally says the best thing we can all do is get vaccinated - for any illness that they develop vaccines for. If you don't agree, I'd like to hear your scientific reasons for it. Actually, I'm not that bothered. You aren't going to provide anything I will feel stands up to scrutiny, and anything that is put forward by scientists (that has to stand up to scrutiny) you won't believe anyway. Instead of believing the science, you believe something else, but it would seem you can't or won't say what or why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Archied said: I find your posts refreshing in terms although we perhaps disagree on points of this subject and you rightly question my posts as I do yours at times there’s a clear lack of selfishness to your view and empathy with others facing different challenges through this and it’s clear your posts are not just about winning an argument ? Thank you for the kind words, much appreciated. I try to look at this forum as I would going to the pub with my mates, I know we are never going to agree on everything but as long as we can enjoy a beer and some banter whilst doing it then that's fine be me. Hopefully that's the same on here, I will never get offended no matter what is said, which is probably why I only engage with certain posters, as they seem to be the same. Have a good evening pal and look forward to a few more discussions in 2021 ?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Looks like they're taking no chances in France: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 30 minutes ago, GboroRam said: The science literally says the best thing we can all do is get vaccinated - for any illness that they develop vaccines for. If you don't agree, I'd like to hear your scientific reasons for it. Actually, I'm not that bothered. You aren't going to provide anything I will feel stands up to scrutiny, and anything that is put forward by scientists (that has to stand up to scrutiny) you won't believe anyway. Instead of believing the science, you believe something else, but it would seem you can't or won't say what or why. Ok the science literally says the way the government are going to stagger the first and second dose of vaccine isn’t ,,,ermmmmm never mind cause actually I’m not bothered whether you pick and choose which science to follow works for you , instead of being interested in science just believe in the science that fits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Archied said: Ok the science literally says the way the government are going to stagger the first and second dose of vaccine isn’t ,,,ermmmmm never mind cause actually I’m not bothered whether you pick and choose which science to follow works for you , instead of being interested in science just believe in the science that fits There are so many "experts" aren't we all, on both sides of each argument, picking the one's that suit us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 54 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I don't think I have any issue with that. I suppose all I'd say to those people who point out how much wealth has gone to the likes of Bezos - do you think he needed the pandemic to build his empire, or was it just accelerated by it? I think the measures various Governments have put in place to combat the pandemic urged on by the majority of the public will see us emerge from the pandemic in a far worse place than when we entered it. I think a lot of the identity politics crap we see these days distracts the majority from the real crisis - which is rich vs poor and the pandemic has only exacerbated the problem. Not only have Bezos etc seen a short term increase in their wealth but a significant percentage of any competition will have shut its doors forever clearing a path for future domination. Going forwards my concern is that under the pretence of 'protecting us' Big Tech and Government continue to enjoy the trappings of power and wealth at the expense of the average man. A couple of interesting articles here but we've probably pushed the covid/politics angle enough for this thread; https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/oct/07/covid-19-crisis-boosts-the-fortunes-of-worlds-billionaires https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2020/07/22/the-rich-are-getting-richer-during-the-pandemic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 13 minutes ago, maxjam said: I think the measures various Governments have put in place to combat the pandemic urged on by the majority of the public will see us emerge from the pandemic in a far worse place than when we entered it. I think a lot of the identity politics crap we see these days distracts the majority from the real crisis - which is rich vs poor and the pandemic has only exacerbated the problem. Not only have Bezos etc seen a short term increase in their wealth but a significant percentage of any competition will have shut its doors forever clearing a path for future domination. Going forwards my concern is that under the pretence of 'protecting us' Big Tech and Government continue to enjoy the trappings of power and wealth at the expense of the average man. A couple of interesting articles here but we've probably pushed the covid/politics angle enough for this thread; https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/oct/07/covid-19-crisis-boosts-the-fortunes-of-worlds-billionaires https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2020/07/22/the-rich-are-getting-richer-during-the-pandemic/ I suppose I'm thinking it's a side effect, whereas some people think it was the main aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 @Albert, is 2021 any improvement on 2020 so far? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 30 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: There are so many "experts" aren't we all, on both sides of each argument, picking the one's that suit us? Yes very much so and that was my point exactly, accused of being some kind of Druid ,doing sacrifices and worshiping the sun because you don’t fall blindly at the feet of certain people’s chosen science or the parts of it they want to follow but conveniently forget the bits that they’re not fussed about not following ? Surely it’s right to point out that kind of guff to the original poster ,,,,just for clarity I don’t buy and eat 40 for £2 burgers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I suppose I'm thinking it's a side effect, whereas some people think it was the main aim. I think it definitely started as a side effect but now perhaps there's an element of greed/lust for power involved. Certainly something to remain vigilant over in the coming months and years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 14 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I suppose I'm thinking it's a side effect, whereas some people think it was the main aim. Most people I know who aren’t on the blind trail think and have posted that it’s a never leta good crisis go to waste type scenario and have posted as much but there seems to be the need push anybody not following blindly into a conspiracy theory group or selfish granny killer type of person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 https://www.itv.com/news/2020-12-31/covid-royal-london-hospital-operating-in-disaster-mode-unable-to-provide-high-standard-critical-care “The email from management read: "We are now in disaster medicine mode. We are no longer providing high standard critical care, because we cannot.” Very very sad situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, jimmyp said: https://www.itv.com/news/2020-12-31/covid-royal-london-hospital-operating-in-disaster-mode-unable-to-provide-high-standard-critical-care “The email from management read: "We are now in disaster medicine mode. We are no longer providing high standard critical care, because we cannot.” Very very sad situation. Doesn't that happen every winter? Oh, no - it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 38 minutes ago, GboroRam said: @Albert, is 2021 any improvement on 2020 so far? ? must be hes not posted here yet ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Doesn't that happen every winter? Oh, no - it doesn't. Weird, we've been told numerous times by the experts on here that the hospitals are fine. I still don't believe there is a wave. I need to see evidence first. @goldstar I actually think the opposite. It sounds horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: Weird, we've been told numerous times by the experts on here that the hospitals are fine. I still don't believe there is a wave. I need to see evidence first. @goldstar I actually think the opposite. It sounds horrendous. Professor Alistair Chesser, group chief medical officer of Barts Health NHS Trust - within which the hospital falls - said the “rapid expansion of intensive care beds” in the trust’s hospitals had led to “changes in the clinical staffing model, in line with national guidance”. He added: “Despite this, our dedicated staff are providing high quality care for all who need it thanks to their dedication and skill.” A source said the phrase “disaster medicine” would be well understood between doctors, and patients should not be discouraged from seeking treatment at the hospital, where staffing levels were within guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 19 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Professor Alistair Chesser, group chief medical officer of Barts Health NHS Trust - within which the hospital falls - said the “rapid expansion of intensive care beds” in the trust’s hospitals had led to “changes in the clinical staffing model, in line with national guidance”. He added: “Despite this, our dedicated staff are providing high quality care for all who need it thanks to their dedication and skill.” A source said the phrase “disaster medicine” would be well understood between doctors, and patients should not be discouraged from seeking treatment at the hospital, where staffing levels were within guidelines. Yes they have certainly changed the clinical staffing model. They have run out of available nurses and have been begging consultant surgeons to volunteer to cover nursing shifts! At the Royal London Hospital, in Whitechapel, the chief medical officer Alistair Chesser told staff on Thursday the situation at the hospital was “rapidly escalating” adding: “Unfortunately we now find ourselves really short of nursing support all weekend starting from tonight. We really need anyone who can do health care support duties to come forward please.” He revealed some consultant surgeons had volunteered to working nursing shifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, jimmyp said: Yes they have certainly changed the clinical staffing model. They have run out of available nurses and have been begging consultant surgeons to volunteer to cover nursing shifts! At the Royal London Hospital, in Whitechapel, the chief medical officer Alistair Chesser told staff on Thursday the situation at the hospital was “rapidly escalating” adding: “Unfortunately we now find ourselves really short of nursing support all weekend starting from tonight. We really need anyone who can do health care support duties to come forward please.” He revealed some consultant surgeons had volunteered to working nursing shifts. Is the bold bit a quote from someone or just your take on the situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Is the bold bit a quote from someone or just your take on the situation? My brother and sister in-law both work at the Royal London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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