Coronavirus

[GenBr]

8 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

No, it's utter BS

Not is isn't. You have posted nothing to dispute anything I said other than your own opinions and anecdotes which are quite frankly useless in this debate. If you aren't over 80 and don't have any pre-existing medical conditions you have nothing to worry about. If you have elderly relatives or know people with compromised immune systems you can take effective measures to minimise the risk to them.

To be honest I don't really care if you want to panic - there is probably some toilet paper still left in the supermarket if you want to go and prep for the end of the world.

[bigbadbob]

1 hour ago, Norman said:

I'm concerned about trying to implement a lock down in a prison. Like theyre going to walk beind their doors the night before a lock down. 

We're outnumbered 30:1 as it is. 

Don't tell them

[RoyMac5]

15 minutes ago, GenBr said:

If you are afraid of death I suppose you could worry, but if you are going to go into meltdown about everything with such a small chance of death you may as well lock yourself away in a tiny room just to make certain there is absolutely zero risk of death.

And not worry about infecting those sad old fookers or those having underlying health risks!

[Bob The Badger]

12 minutes ago, GenBr said:

@Bob The Badger All over the news this morning. Still early days, but positive signs. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-japanese-flu-drug-could-be-effective-in-treating-pandemic.html

 

Jesus Bob a simple google search can find the stats you need - I haven't made them up - they are straight from a report conducted by the national health authority in Italy. If you can speak Italian feel free to go and have a read. I'm sure your anecdotal evidence trumps it though. Young people are not immune from catching it either - nor did I claim they were.

What in the hell are you talking about - Civilisation has collapsed several times in history in various parts of the world and several times because of pandemics. Civilisation won't collapse because based on virtually every model based on the data from China and the rest of the world nowhere near enough people are going to die to cause it to happen. Unless the virus mutates as i said previously it will not happen.

If you are afraid of death I suppose you could worry, but if you are going to go into meltdown about everything with such a small chance of death you may as well lock yourself away in a tiny room just to make certain there is absolutely zero risk of death.

Jeez GenBr you said that everybody under the age of 80 should carry on as normal. Remember that?

Thousands of people under 80 have died.

You did some world-class eluding.

Civilizations is not the same as civilization.

Just because you don't understand that massive difference isn't my fault.

As for my anecdotal evidence, well yeah of course we are all dealing with that to a greater or lesser agree.You're Japenese flu vaccine without clinical trails and peer reviewed research is barely more than anecdotal - but you seem fine with that. 

But I am married to somebody on the front line and her experience is way scarier and real, than you seem to think from 

[Bob The Badger]

20 minutes ago, GenBr said:

Not is isn't. You have posted nothing to dispute anything I said other than your own opinions and anecdotes which are quite frankly useless in this debate. If you aren't over 80 and don't have any pre-existing medical conditions you have nothing to worry about. If you have elderly relatives or know people with compromised immune systems you can take effective measures to minimise the risk to them.

To be honest I don't really care if you want to panic - there is probably some toilet paper still left in the supermarket if you want to go and prep for the end of the world.

The doctor who first detailed this disease in China was 36 is now dead. Maybe he had underlying conditions, honestly not sure, but I haven't read he had.

I do know there are two American doctors in their 40s' in the ICU over here who have no underlying conditions though.

I hope they don't anecdotally die.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/06/whistleblower-chinese-doctor-dies-from-coronavirus

[bigbadbob]

42 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/18/japanese-flu-drug-clearly-effective-in-treating-coronavirus-says-china

the Japanese drug thing

[Norman]

34 minutes ago, bigbadbob said:

Don't tell them

But people demand Boris to tell everyone all of the plans live on tele. 

If we didn't tell them they would just smash their cells up and riot. 

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

class

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51953883

[1of4]

39 minutes ago, Norman said:

But people demand Boris to tell everyone all of the plans live on tele. 

If we didn't tell them they would just smash their cells up and riot. 

Just send them all home with instructions to self isolate. I'm sure there'll be no problems.

[Gritstone Ram]

I haven’t read through all this but has anyone had it yet?

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, ramit said:

That's right, experience has taught me not to trust authorities.  i was taught critical thinking early on and am grateful for it.

Think of me what you will, but spare me your insults, thanks.

No insult there I think and I'm not sure prejudice based on previous experience is critical thinking.

So what civil liberties do you think we are at risk of losing for ever should a lock down be implemented? Do you honestly think that if/when this all goes away (or becomes more manageable with a vaccine) the degree of free movement that we currently enjoy will disappear for ever? Do you honestly think the powers that be are rubbing their hands thinking at last. the chance we've been waiting for?

[ramit]

15 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

No insult there I think and I'm not sure prejudice based on previous experience is critical thinking.

So what civil liberties do you think we are at risk of losing for ever should a lock down be implemented? Do you honestly think that if/when this all goes away (or becomes more manageable with a vaccine) the degree of free movement that we currently enjoy will disappear for ever? Do you honestly think the powers that be are rubbing their hands thinking at last. the chance we've been waiting for?

It's easier to show you what you've lost already, which should give you an idea, if you are so inclined to deduce what might be next on the agenda.

 

"The Labour government elected in 1997 was frequently accused of running a "nanny state", but by the time of the 2010 general election, criticisms had increased to more serious accusations of excessive state interference and state control, infringements of civil liberties and a gradual erosion of the rights of the individual.

One of the main concerns was the enormous number of new criminal offences brought in by Labour. Between 1997 and 2009, 4,289 new criminal offences were created, approximately one for every day the party was in power; and the number continued to increase, rising from 27 new offences a month under Tony Blair, to 33 a month under Gordon Brown.

Several of the new laws were ridiculed for their absurdity; for example it was made an offence to offer for sale a game bird killed on a Sunday or Christmas Day; or to swim in the hull of the Titanic without the permission of a Cabinet minister.

The Liberal Democrats roundly condemned this "frenzied approach to law-making" and accused Labour of having "an obsession with controlling the minutiae of everyday life."

Further concerns about infringement of civil liberties were raised by the passing of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA), dubbed the 'snoopers' charter'.

The Act creates a regulatory framework to govern the way public bodies, such as the police and security and intelligence services, use covert techniqes when investigating terrorist threats and other serious crimes, the purpose being to ensure investigatory powers are used in accordance with human rights.

These powers are: the interception of communications; the acquisition of communications data (e.g. billing data); intrusive surveillance (on residential premises/in private vehicles); covert surveillance in the course of specific operations; the use of covert human intelligence sources (agents, informants, undercover officers); and access to encrypted data."

https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/civil-liberties

[ramit]

Sorry mods, i ventured into the political sphere there.  Will try to refrain from it here on in.

A little story from yesterday.  My mother is 83.  She needed to go to her bank and i couldn't be there to drive her, so she took a taxi.  The weather was cold and windy, as she stood outside her bank after finishing her business and was waiting for another taxi she had ordered to arrive.  The taxi arrived, the driver took one look at her and yelled I am not driving you anywhere and he sped off.  My mother is a very frail old lady, having suffered a massive stroke a few years ago, but she doesn't complain and gets on with things.  She was very cold by the time the second taxi arrived.  The driver was very nice to her, assisted her into the car and called the station to notify them of the appalling behavior of one of their drivers. 

The station manager apparently got involved and sent the offending driver back to her to apologize, while the other driver waited without his meter running with mother in the back seat.  Upon arriving he mumbled some excuse and offered to drive her anywhere she wanted to.  No, you are not driving me anywhere, was her curt reply.  That's my mama, hehe.

Times like these bring out the worst in some and the best in others.  Here is to the others, may they prosper.

[Carl Sagan]

One of my research associates who's a brilliant professor in America modelled what would happen if you asked people to volunteer to be infected now, and then go into strict quarantine until they developed immunity so as not to pass the infection on to anyone else.

Taking random volunteers from the population would save 60% of lives.

Taking elderly volunteers would actually save 70% of lives (because they could have treatment before the health system became overwhelmed).

Taking young volunteers would save  80% of lives (as they would largely be unharmed as well as increasing the immunity in the population).

It's a shame we live in a society too afraid to talk openly about these as potential options, but if Boris came out with it the frenzied media would slaughter him.

[Stagtime]

16 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

One of my research associates who's a brilliant professor in America modelled what would happen if you asked people to volunteer to be infected now, and then go into strict quarantine until they developed immunity so as not to pass the infection on to anyone else.

Taking random volunteers from the population would save 60% of lives.

Taking elderly volunteers would actually save 70% of lives (because they could have treatment before the health system became overwhelmed).

Taking young volunteers would save  80% of lives (as they would largely be unharmed as well as increasing the immunity in the population).

It's a shame we live in a society too afraid to talk openly about these as potential options, but if Boris came out with it the frenzied media would slaughter him.

Might be wishful thinking but shouldn't it be whats best for the people first and the consequences of that decision second.

[Comrade 86]

19 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

One of my research associates who's a brilliant professor in America modelled what would happen if you asked people to volunteer to be infected now, and then go into strict quarantine until they developed immunity so as not to pass the infection on to anyone else.

Taking random volunteers from the population would save 60% of lives.

Taking elderly volunteers would actually save 70% of lives (because they could have treatment before the health system became overwhelmed).

Taking young volunteers would save  80% of lives (as they would largely be unharmed as well as increasing the immunity in the population).

It's a shame we live in a society too afraid to talk openly about these as potential options, but if Boris came out with it the frenzied media would slaughter him.

Or perhaps they might think, 'this actually makes some sense' and write their pieces accordingly, assuming of course that the aforementioned model bears up to scrutiny.  Perhaps now might be a good time for all of us to open our minds to new possibilities and perhaps this could start with our elected officials trying to actually serve those they are meant to rather than unduly concerning themselves with negative PR. There are more important matters at hand.

[Mucker1884]

8 hours ago, Van Gritters said:

I haven’t read through all this but has anyone had it yet?

I'm not gonna bother now. 
Apparently the COVID-20 Pro is due for release in September, so I'll wait until then.

[Tamworthram]

7 hours ago, ramit said:

Sorry mods, i ventured into the political sphere there.  Will try to refrain from it here on in.

A little story from yesterday.  My mother is 83.  She needed to go to her bank and i couldn't be there to drive her, so she took a taxi.  The weather was cold and windy, as she stood outside her bank after finishing her business and was waiting for another taxi she had ordered to arrive.  The taxi arrived, the driver took one look at her and yelled I am not driving you anywhere and he sped off.  My mother is a very frail old lady, having suffered a massive stroke a few years ago, but she doesn't complain and gets on with things.  She was very cold by the time the second taxi arrived.  The driver was very nice to her, assisted her into the car and called the station to notify them of the appalling behavior of one of their drivers. 

The station manager apparently got involved and sent the offending driver back to her to apologize, while the other driver waited without his meter running with mother in the back seat.  Upon arriving he mumbled some excuse and offered to drive her anywhere she wanted to.  No, you are not driving me anywhere, was her curt reply.  That's my mama, hehe.

Times like these bring out the worst in some and the best in others.  Here is to the others, may they prosper.

Spot on. Just goes to show that for every idiot or selfish person out there, there is another more kind, caring and sensible.

We were in Aldi on Tuesday and there was a very distressed lady with a child in a push chair trying to buy more nappies than she was allowed because she said she was recovering from cancer, had difficulty getting out and had no one to help shop (I know she may have been making it up but she appeared genuine). Another customer offered to take a couple of packs for her through the check out. You should have seen the poor woman sob with gratitude.

[Archied]

10 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

People this is way worse imho.

Look at how many famous people are testing positive. It's totally disproportionate to the population.

The reality is that they are getting tested and many are proving positive.

So that would suggest way more people who aren't getting tested would test positive.

The test for Covid-19 (in this country at least) is called SARS-CoV-2

My wife went into the system today to look for her patients results and not one had been tested for that.

NOW, she said it *could* be that they are behind the curve with that because she says 4 other coronavirus tests that are more like the common cold.

However, she says that it will normally say 'pending' if a test hadn't been finalized.

She's somewhat concerned.

 

 

If way more people have got it / had it but are unknown because no testing then that perhaps could be a positive in terms of survival rates from catching it ?

[alexxxxx]

In London at least it seems that corner shops/small independent supermarkets have better stocked shelves than sainsburys.