Coronavirus

[Uptherams]

1 minute ago, TexasRam said:

It’s just a defence mechanism they use as they are not used to an alternative view. Unfortunately when they shout loud enough, they only hear their own voices. Sad really. 
 

Anyway are you telling me the Queen isn’t a Lizard? ?????

And take things out of context. Like not even slightly. But will take something you have written and then just try and post it all the time. 

"They genuinely think people like us think the Queen is a lizard and 5g is hacking our minds and health worldwide."

Becomes The Queen is a lizard. ???

 

[Albert]

34 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Oh god you really are a doom and gloom merchant aren’t you. Where are your death rate figures from?
 

Unfortunately  your argument is flawed. Data is clearly showing It’s just not happening this time around, and not just here in any country that’s seen an increase in cases (because they are testing more btw). 
 

Also lack of consumer confidence is due to scaremongering and mass hysteria from the MSM and likes of yourself etc imo 

I'm literally the opposite of a doom and gloom merchant, I'm discussing how other countries have gotten out of the chaos back to some kind of normalcy. 

The infection fatality rate figures are from the WHO, who aggregated them from primary research. You can read their article which discusses this figure here.

What do you think is not happening this time around? It is an expectation during pandemics that people, on their own, tend to act more cautiously, which will drive down infection rate, and tank the economy. Your entire argument seems to be based on some very weird, and poorly justified assumptions. 

Also, again, I wouldn't think saying 'just take the time to wrest back control, and things can return to a kind of normal, as they have in other countries' is scaremongering. Saying that any more lockdowns will kill the economy, saddle the youth of tomorrow with endless debt, and ruin the country is scaremongering though. My point is one of hope and bringing back the World we knew, at least in part, yours is about leading others to their graves so you can have your gravy sooner. 

[Uptherams]

1 hour ago, rynny said:

As someone who works in a pub I would urge you to report them. Why should they get rewarded for breaking the law, whilst other establishments run the risk of going out of business. Why is that fair? 

You guys going to report the bars in Parliament then? 

[Ghost of Clough]

44 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Unfortunately  your argument is flawed. Data is clearly showing It’s just not happening this time around, and not just here in any country that’s seen an increase in cases (because they are testing more btw). 

This is exactly why using number of cases is pointless when comparing to earlier stages of the outbreak. They're a good indicator of the trend at the current moment in time though (barring in mind a weekend lull)

A better, more comparative figure to look at is hospitalisations in England. At the start of last week we were at 200 a day, and 300 a day at the end of the week... at the start of the month it was only 10-20. We're back to where we were at the end of March. However, this time we have restrictions in place to stop it spreading as quickly as last time - this is what your favourite graph is pretty much comparing.

[Chester40]

1 hour ago, Albert said:

Equally, it's not 'the cure' doing the damage that you're whinging about, it's the loss of consumer confidence from the virus. People aren't just going to magically start trying to go out and spend again because someone decrees 'granny ain't worth saving anymore, go to the pub lads'. The best route to economic recovery is wrest control of the situation first, it's the one thing that's been shown to work on that front, and there are now plenty of examples to look to. 

Totally false logic. 

Government closed the schools except to vulnerable pupils, schools are almost empty. Government reopens the schools, 90-95% of children are back in school. 

Pubs are closed, no one in is the pubs. Then the pubs are allowed to open, and whenever I have been out lots of people are in them. 

Sports are cancelled...no one is playing sports. This weekend I played Vets football and watched my kids play football. 

The legislation drives what is allowed and customer confidence then follows this. 

 

[jimmyp]

1 hour ago, TexasRam said:

Oh god you really are a doom and gloom merchant aren’t you. Where are your death rate figures from?
 

Unfortunately  your argument is flawed. Data is clearly showing It’s just not happening this time around, and not just here in any country that’s seen an increase in cases (because they are testing more btw). 
 

Also lack of consumer confidence is due to scaremongering and mass hysteria from the MSM and likes of yourself etc imo 

Are the BMA guilty of scaremongering and mass hysteria also?

Just last week the chairman was asking the government to put significantly more restrictions in place to control the spread.

When they conducted a survey with more than 8000 of their doctors and medical students, over 86% replied that the second wave was imminent and would have a devastating impact on the nhs if not controlled by more severe restrictions.

The death toll caused by just 10% of nhs staff having to isolate would be devasting.

 

 

[Stive Pesley]

16 hours ago, Uptherams said:

Hmmm. If only there were a country called Sweden. 

Lest we forget -

Sweden prospers in the EU (UTR: Bah - wouldn't work here - we're 2 very different countries)

Sweden has a successful democratic socialist state (UTR: Bah - wouldn't work here - we're 2 very different countries)

Sweden is a very successful multicultural society (UTR: Bah - wouldn't work here - we're 2 very different countries and i read something about no-go zones on the idiot web)

But now you're offering Sweden as a beacon of success because it's suits your argument?

Pick and choose those facts brother - it's fun!

 

[jimmyp]

13 hours ago, Uptherams said:

Sweden have had significantly less restrictions throughout this all. The Sweden approach is wrong they said (you guys). 

Now 6 months later, when the stats show 1.5 or so average daily Covid deaths in Sweden for 2 whole months, it's because they were very strict and well behaved.

??

Many doctors and scientist's are saying that, and have for some time, all  restrictions and lockdown does is delay a death, not prevent it. 

If they are right they are right. This is coming from someone (me) who thought we'd be getting hundreds of thousands of deaths in the UK based on the modelling I had seen in early March. I was so worried because the model had accurately predicted Italy's daily deaths for several weeks and once it got to 1500 or so, was predicted to double everyday, until hospital's were over run and in the space of 2-3 weeks, tens of thousands, even up to 100,000 people dying everyday. 

That was then, this is now. I changed my mindset as more information was published.

Comparable to the flu ?

 

It seems the overwhelming majority of doctors disagree with you.

Dr Chaand Nagpaul, the BMA council chair, said the poll’s results reflect the fears of frontline clinicians who treated Covid patients earlier this year as the government delayed efforts to overcome the rapid spread of the virus.

“We as a profession want, above all, to avoid a return to the scenes we saw in April, when hospitals were full with Covid-19 patients, and hundreds were dying every day. Meanwhile, thousands of others missed out on vital appointments and procedures as routine care was put on hold,” he said.

Such a repeat, he added, is avoidable if the government takes swift action.“

 

It’s also very definitely not comparable to the flu!

Dr Gill said he is scared about what lies ahead. “I want to highlight that I use the word ‘scared’ honestly and intentionally,” he said, adding that while he has never been worried about catching a disease from patients before, Covid-19 is different.

“Personally, I’m terrified about what the long-lasting health impacts for me might be,” he said. “But I’m also worried who will fill the gap if and when I have to take leave due to my own Covid-19 infection.”

[rynny]

1 hour ago, Uptherams said:

You guys going to report the bars in Parliament then? 

If I go past and see them open then I will. 

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, TexasRam said:

No plot, no conspiracy it’s just not the disaster and house on fire scenario you and you’re the crew are making it out to be.......again the cure we are putting in place is more dangerous than the virus, that is all. So snipe away oh clever one 

I'm the crew?

What crew would that be? Anticovid19, I suppose. I'll gladly accept that, provided you accept that you are Procovid19.

Prediction - NONE of your comments will age well.

[Norman]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

This is exactly why using number of cases is pointless when comparing to earlier stages of the outbreak. They're a good indicator of the trend at the current moment in time though (barring in mind a weekend lull)

A better, more comparative figure to look at is hospitalisations in England. At the start of last week we were at 200 a day, and 300 a day at the end of the week... at the start of the month it was only 10-20. We're back to where we were at the end of March. However, this time we have restrictions in place to stop it spreading as quickly as last time - this is what your favourite graph is pretty much comparing.

Good point. What about the treatment though? 

From what I've read, we were basically kilking people with ventilators.

Not to mention peple are now getting tested when showing symptoms plus with social distancing and mask wearing people's exposure shouldn't be as long and therefore as bad. 

Maybe that's why deaths are also down. 

Maybe the best comparison of data is number of hospitalisation vs number of deaths from both periods? 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, jimmyp said:

Are the BMA guilty of scaremongering and mass hysteria also?

Just last week the chairman was asking the government to put significantly more restrictions in place to control the spread.

When they conducted a survey with more than 8000 of their doctors and medical students, over 86% replied that the second wave was imminent and would have a devastating impact on the nhs if not controlled by more severe restrictions.

The death toll caused by just 10% of nhs staff having to isolate would be devasting.

 

 

Get with the picture - they're all part of the 'Deep State' administered for, by and on behalf of Gates, Soros and the Rothschilds.

Or should that be 'Derp State'?

[Spanish]

6 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I'm the crew?

What crew would that be? Anticovid19, I suppose. I'll gladly accept that, provided you accept that you are Procovid19.

Prediction - NONE of your comments will age well.

I thought maybe CV19 deniers?

[rynny]

1 hour ago, Uptherams said:

You guys going to report the bars in Parliament then? 

 

14 minutes ago, rynny said:

If I go past and see them open then I will. 

Ah so it was a trick question, as I've just seen that they are exempt from the 10pm curfew (that isn't really a 10pm curfew it is 9.30 really as everyone needs to be out before 10). Once again one rule for us common folk and one rule for them. 

[Uptherams]

37 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Lest we forget -

Sweden prospers in the EU (UTR: Bah - wouldn't work here - we're 2 very different countries)

Sweden has a successful democratic socialist state (UTR: Bah - wouldn't work here - we're 2 very different countries)

Sweden is a very successful multicultural society (UTR: Bah - wouldn't work here - we're 2 very different countries and i read something about no-go zones on the idiot web)

But now you're offering Sweden as a beacon of success because it's suits your argument?

Pick and choose those facts brother - it's fun!

 

Look @TexasRam even more pretending what others say. 

??  

Sweden isn't even a socialist state. 

[Uptherams]

1 minute ago, rynny said:

 

Ah so it was a trick question, as I've just seen that they are exempt from the 10pm curfew (that isn't really a 10pm curfew it is 9.30 really as everyone needs to be out before 10). Once again one rule for us common folk and one rule for them. 

Exactly. They are laughing at us. One rule for them, another for us. Yet they top it off by getting people to grass on each other. duck that! 

[Gone]

10 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I'm the crew?

What crew would that be? Anticovid19, I suppose. I'll gladly accept that, provided you accept that you are Procovid19.

Prediction - NONE of your comments will age well.

Time will tell, as I’ve said it’s an argument I can’t win. Death rates go up, I’m wrong. Death rates stay as they are now, the restrictions you love so much have worked. My hypothesis will never be tested, to the detriment of the future of our nation, my future and my kids future. I’m sure you’ll be ok though 

[Albert]

14 minutes ago, Norman said:

Good point. What about the treatment though? 

From what I've read, we were basically kilking people with ventilators.

Not to mention peple are now getting tested when showing symptoms plus with social distancing and mask wearing people's exposure shouldn't be as long and therefore as bad. 

Maybe that's why deaths are also down. 

Maybe the best comparison of data is number of hospitalisation vs number of deaths from both periods? 

Would be very curious to see any evidence of ventilators 'basically killing people'. I've come across a few who linked them with deaths because patients who die tend to have been on them, but that's like blaming hospital for causing cancer deaths. Mechanical ventilation can cause injury, but I'm not aware of any research suggesting that use with Covid-19 patients has been specifically harmful. 

1 hour ago, Chester40 said:

Totally false logic. 

Government closed the schools except to vulnerable pupils, schools are almost empty. Government reopens the schools, 90-95% of children are back in school. 

Pubs are closed, no one in is the pubs. Then the pubs are allowed to open, and whenever I have been out lots of people are in them. 

Sports are cancelled...no one is playing sports. This weekend I played Vets football and watched my kids play football. 

The legislation drives what is allowed and customer confidence then follows this. 

 

You usually get an initial bounce, as well as biases generated by our our perceptions, but the numbers do not support this notion that people are just following legislation. Who knows though, maybe the UK really is just on the strings of the government, and one press conference away from full economic recovery. 

[Norman]

5 minutes ago, Albert said:

Would be very curious to see any evidence of ventilators 'basically killing people'. I've come across a few who linked them with deaths because patients who die tend to have been on them, but that's like blaming hospital for causing cancer deaths. Mechanical ventilation can cause injury, but I'm not aware of any research suggesting that use with Covid-19 patients has been specifically harmful. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/03/covid-death-rates-dropped-doctors-rejected-ventilators/amp/

I'm sure there will ba link somewhere on the Internet that disagrees. 

Just the article that I read. 

[Chester40]

9 minutes ago, Albert said:

You usually get an initial bounce, as well as biases generated by our our perceptions, but the numbers do not support this notion that people are just following legislation. Who knows though, maybe the UK really is just on the strings of the government, and one press conference away from full economic recovery. 

Nicely worded but meaningless avoidance of my points. 

Schools were empty, now are mostly full. Pubs /restaurants were closed now reasonably busy. No one was able to play sports /go to the gym/go to the cinema etc, now lots of people are.

Are they back to pre-March levels, maybe not (and that's probably due in part to the legislation regarding enforced distancing etc) but clearly the most important factor is government intervention.