Yet another Chris Martin thread.... Yes really

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

Maybe CM knows something we don’t, could we have already agreed to sign a new target man??‍♂️ No grounds for this by the way, it’s just a thought. 

[Sparkle]

1 minute ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

Maybe CM knows something we don’t, could we have already agreed to sign a new target man??‍♂️ No grounds for this by the way, it’s just a thought. 

I hope we have !  I still believe we need four forwards especially with our absentee rate 

[RoyMac5]

Quote

Phillip Cocu is hopeful striker Chris Martin will still be at Derby County next season.
"We are still talking," Cocu said after last night's game.

"It is hard to predict (what will happen), but I see it as a positive that we are still talking to each other. That means that maybe the differences can be solved.

"The intention for both parties is to find a way to continue. I am hopeful."

DET

[Ghost of Clough]

16 minutes ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

Maybe CM knows something we don’t, could we have already agreed to sign a new target man??‍♂️ No grounds for this by the way, it’s just a thought. 

Doubt we'll be in the market for a forward until it's clear Martin won't be staying

[Turnstile]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Yes, he’s been putting money in to run the club but we does that mean the club owe him money?

Only Mel can answer that.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

I love Chris Martin.

He was such a MEH signing at the time, I didnt know him, opposition fans didnt rate him, a typical Clough signing.

Only we now know that a typical Clough signing is a bloody good one!

He signed some absolute gems, Forsyth, Bryson, Russell, Keogh, Ward, Eustace etc, but Martin really is the best of the lot.

Forget his goals (there have been lots), just watch the way he plays footy, the man is a genuine genius. He is slower than my nan with a wooden leg, when she loses her leg, but his brain is quicker than most players on the pitch. 

It bothers me when people say we need shot of him as we need to move on, you can't easily replace what Martin provides, skill in abundance, goal scoring ability and footballing intelligence. He needs to stay.

[Ambitious]

I think people need to remember that of all the players at Derby that Martin possibly is the highest earning player - aside from Rooney. 

He signed a new long-term deal when we resigned with McClaren and he was on loan with Fulham at the time. I would say that the deal would've needed to be substantial in order to get him signed up and then he never played under McClaren again. 

I would be surprised if he's not clearing £30k a week comfortably. I don't know what his market value is now, but I think we should take everything into consideration and offer him our best offer (£15k roughly) then allow him to talk to clubs to see if he can get more. If he can then wish him the best, but if he can't then sign him up for another year or two. 

We really need to think about the wage bill more than what we spend on transfer fees. 

[DRBee]

6 hours ago, Ramdale said:

Lacks the energy what we require. Team will be built around the young lads next year and rightly so. Sibley will play as a 10 and for how talented he is, he is not blessed with blistering pace. With him playing off Martin, we yet again won't have enough pace through the middle to threaten teams. Last 5 games since Waghorn got him set sent off have been some of the poorest performances in months. We haven't looked a threat as a team. At home, I see more use for Martin where teams will sit deep and we dominate the ball, but away from home we need more mobility through the middle.

You clearly don't rate ability to find a team mate with a pass - without that better teams will not be beaten.

[TuffLuff]

Here’s a big ol’ guess about the state of play but at least holds itself up with some logic.

-The negotiations now won’t be too much about money per week, if we weren’t in the ballpark then I imagine Martin and his agent would be walking away

-Length of contract may be an issue, I imagine Derby want one year with incentives and Martin wants two

-Martin is happy with incentives aslong as they work in his favour. Is it worth having goals/apps when it’s mostly likely you are going to be a rotation player? Say you need to make 30 apps, with Marriott, Waghorn, Whittaker, a couple of the academy lads plus maybe even a new striker around then how likely is it?

-My take is we will see Martin on two years with a massively reduced contract, or a year with incentives and a bit more of a weekly wage.

-I’m sure another club will be interested but all the external factors would make it hard to move from Derby and be settled. Would take a big contract and in the current environment that wouldn’t be likely.

-I guess now the season is over they have time to iron it all out and get it sorted, of everyone wants to thrash out a deal then that’s a good thing 

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Here’s a big ol’ guess about the state of play but at least holds itself up with some logic.

-The negotiations now won’t be too much about money per week, if we weren’t in the ballpark then I imagine Martin and his agent would be walking away

-Length of contract may be an issue, I imagine Derby want one year with incentives and Martin wants two

Yep. Can't see Martin being happy with only one when Fozzy got a two year deal. TBH I imagine he's looking for at least "two plus one", as realistically it'll be his last 'big' contract.

[Anag Ram]

5 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Here’s a big ol’ guess about the state of play but at least holds itself up with some logic.

-The negotiations now won’t be too much about money per week, if we weren’t in the ballpark then I imagine Martin and his agent would be walking away

-Length of contract may be an issue, I imagine Derby want one year with incentives and Martin wants two

-Martin is happy with incentives aslong as they work in his favour. Is it worth having goals/apps when it’s mostly likely you are going to be a rotation player? Say you need to make 30 apps, with Marriott, Waghorn, Whittaker, a couple of the academy lads plus maybe even a new striker around then how likely is it?

-My take is we will see Martin on two years with a massively reduced contract, or a year with incentives and a bit more of a weekly wage.

-I’m sure another club will be interested but all the external factors would make it hard to move from Derby and be settled. Would take a big contract and in the current environment that wouldn’t be likely.

-I guess now the season is over they have time to iron it all out and get it sorted, of everyone wants to thrash out a deal then that’s a good thing 

I'd like to see him given an incentive based on goals scored. 

He's a brilliant short passer and an intelligent footballer but he has lost his desire for goals. 

I want to see him shooting more often and perhaps taking the free-kicks when they are not longer sponsored by 32Red.

He is more than capable of lashing home 15+ in a season if he backs himself. 

[BramcoteRam84]

Martin has to play hard ball to get the best contract he can, especially if he’s getting a pay cut. Hopefully they can come to an agreement but we need this to be on the right terms for the club.

Chrissy has proven this season he still has something to offer, 12 goals and 7 assists for essentially a squad player is excellent. I think he should remain a squad player, in some games he’s been ineffective but that in part is because we can’t get players around him especially away from home. If you look at other strikers in the league, Grabban for example, excellent finisher, can bring others into play, hold the ball up, but he can also chase lost causes and run channels to then give the team time to get up the pitch, effectively making up for the team deficiencies. Martin doesn’t have that in his locker, he needs the team to play well to be effective. 

We therefore need other options but Martin remains an excellent option if we can get him on the right terms.

[RoyMac5]

26 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

He's a brilliant short passer and an intelligent footballer but he has lost his desire for goals. 

? Who was a few yards behind Waghorn after running the whole of Birminghams half on the break? Who was waiting for Knighty to pass across the box to him. Who is in shot on the edge of the box at the end of the match, again there for a pass when Whittaker shoots? Ditto the Sibley shot! 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

46 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

I'd like to see him given an incentive based on goals scored. 

He's a brilliant short passer and an intelligent footballer but he has lost his desire for goals. 

I want to see him shooting more often and perhaps taking the free-kicks when they are not longer sponsored by 32Red.

He is more than capable of lashing home 15+ in a season if he backs himself. 

He has hardly lost his desire for goals...have you seen his face when he’s in a prime position for a pass and they don’t bother?

plus he’s on 12 despite that and also despite the fact he didn’t play the first quarter of the season..

 

[Anag Ram]

I know Chris can't do wrong but how many shots has he had since the re-start? 

All I'm saying is that as a striker he doesn't strike enough! 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

3 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

I know Chris can't do wrong but how many shots has he had since the re-start? 

All I'm saying is that as a striker he doesn't strike enough! 

And out of our strikers,who does?

They get no service.

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

And out of our strikers, who does?

They get no service.

Except from Martin mostly?! So...it's Martin to Martin, who shoots and scores! ?

Oh for a proper wide player or two. #COYR

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

22 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Except from Martin mostly?! So...it's Martin to Martin, who shoots and scores! ?

Oh for a proper wide player or two. #COYR

I think we would be transformed by two proper wingers.

[TuffLuff]

1 hour ago, Anag Ram said:

I'd like to see him given an incentive based on goals scored. 

He's a brilliant short passer and an intelligent footballer but he has lost his desire for goals. 

I want to see him shooting more often and perhaps taking the free-kicks when they are not longer sponsored by 32Red.

He is more than capable of lashing home 15+ in a season if he backs himself. 

Personally I think you have to let him play his game, if he was a poacher like Marriott then 100% incentives to be around the six yard box makes a lot of sense, but Martin’s positioning means he makes room for others by pulling defenders out of position which you don’t want to lose.

It was under very different circumstances but I think if you try and be too clever with Martin you got the ineffective one that Clement had. Clement wanted Martin as this focal point of the whole attack, meaning he was pushed further back and doing his work between the halfway line and opposition box rather than in and around their box. 
 

Also how much can incentives influence a players attitude? Perfect example last night was first half when Knight should have squared it to Martin who’s in the right position but instead decides to shoot. You’re in a situation where players are learning and by incentivising a main striker what happens when Knight or another inexperienced player doesn’t pass again? Does Martin become more frustrated and loses patience which goes against what the club is trying to create?

So it’s difficult to how you incentivise to me, apps, goals and assists wouldn’t work for anyone involved, I don’t think he needs that to get the best out of him. Unless you put a low number on a few different incentives?

[richinspain]

1 hour ago, Anag Ram said:

I'd like to see him given an incentive based on goals scored. 

He's a brilliant short passer and an intelligent footballer but he has lost his desire for goals. 

I want to see him shooting more often and perhaps taking the free-kicks when they are not longer sponsored by 32Red.

He is more than capable of lashing home 15+ in a season if he backs himself. 

  Incentives are great, but I personally don't like individual ones in football. It's a team game, and any player who has an incentive for goals scored is surely going to be more selfish than he should be. He could have three opportunities to shoot from a tight angle in a match, each of which has a player wide open with an open goal to shoot at. What will be the player's first thought? Maybe I'll get lucky and score one, or pass and we'll score 3?

  It's a team game. Teams win games. Individuals don't on their own in general (flash of brilliance excepted). There is no "I" in team. Personally I think that Martin is too much of a team player to go for the selfish option generally, but that still shouldn't be an option in a team game.